Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 9 of 18 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 263
  1. #121
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,509
    Quote Originally Posted by Sportfan View Post
    What has you putting Carter over the rest of the field? He doesn't have the ceiling of Bamba or the floor of Jackson.

    He's a great pick in the back end of the lotto, but there's a reason teams don't have him top 5. I don't think he has the explosiveness to be elite on either end
    I have the same ranking. We're not talking just overall talent here. The statement is, bigs ranked for Boston. Carter Jr. is the best fit for what we do. He may not have as high of a ceiling but he has a much higher floor. Where we are roster wise and ready to compete now, I'd rather take the player that I know what I'm getting vs. the player that could be elite but could also wash out of the league rather quickly.

    Carter Jr. is just a straight up good basketball player. He has more skills and a better understanding of the game than the other 2 prospects...Whereas the other 2 are on the freak athlete size. Danny generally values skill and IQ and grit over pure athleticism...Carter Jr. checks more of those boxes.

    The only real outlier was Jaylen Brown. But Brown has the IQ and they must have saw enough in him to believe his skills could be developed quickly. Also, at the time, I think they were looking for a home run because we only had Horford and at the time it seemed more hopeful than likely that a big name Free Agent was coming to town.

    Carter Jr. is the best fit for us, based on system and past draft history IMO. No knock against the other 2 - they're also great talents. I also take into consideration cost. To get Carter Jr. we likely need to get into the #8-11 picks. Bamba and Jackson we'd have to be top 5. The difference in obtaining those picks could save us an asset...Or possibly mean trading Rozier instead of Brown.

    City of Champions

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    43,995
    ^ yup. If DA sits back and sees Carter drafted 9th - 11th, it could be more a "best athlete" pick then a need, so they could be pried away if we supply what they need - either a pre planned trade, or a post draft trade.

    If Rozier goes, then it would be good to hang onto #27 and use it in a deal to move up to #16-22 and scoop up a PG as Roziers replacement, there are 3 PG or PG/SG's in that range - at least one should make DA happy. A really interesting guy is going about 12th - Sexton, but you've got to cough up something that hurts to get that pick.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    7,423
    IMO, picks 7 through 11 will be off limits to the C's due to history and fleecing... Maybe NY, but I think a contract will have to come back to Boston... No thanks...

    Picks 4, 5 and 6 will take a haul...

    Maybe a LAC pick, but only if DA secretly likes a middle of the pack guy... Possible...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    WOOSTA
    Posts
    4,511
    I know Sexton was considered a top 5 prospect this time last year

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    32,106
    Quote Originally Posted by Soxtober040713 View Post
    I have the bigs ranked for Boston excluding Ayton for obvious reasons as

    Carter Jr
    Bamba
    Jackson Jr

    A lot of risk with Bamba I think. I do believe that if he lives up to his projected potential he will be better than Carter. I just for some reason think Carter is gonna be the real deal In this league. And I honestly believe Bagley is a BUST!! Okafor all over again. I didnít like Okafor when he came out. To one dimentional. But with that sad I was on bored with the Celtics bring him on as a buy low candidate back before he ended up in Brooklyn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I have the same ranking. We're not talking just overall talent here. The statement is, bigs ranked for Boston. Carter Jr. is the best fit for what we do. He may not have as high of a ceiling but he has a much higher floor. Where we are roster wise and ready to compete now, I'd rather take the player that I know what I'm getting vs. the player that could be elite but could also wash out of the league rather quickly.

    Carter Jr. is just a straight up good basketball player. He has more skills and a better understanding of the game than the other 2 prospects...Whereas the other 2 are on the freak athlete size. Danny generally values skill and IQ and grit over pure athleticism...Carter Jr. checks more of those boxes.

    The only real outlier was Jaylen Brown. But Brown has the IQ and they must have saw enough in him to believe his skills could be developed quickly. Also, at the time, I think they were looking for a home run because we only had Horford and at the time it seemed more hopeful than likely that a big name Free Agent was coming to town.

    Carter Jr. is the best fit for us, based on system and past draft history IMO. No knock against the other 2 - they're also great talents. I also take into consideration cost. To get Carter Jr. we likely need to get into the #8-11 picks. Bamba and Jackson we'd have to be top 5. The difference in obtaining those picks could save us an asset...Or possibly mean trading Rozier instead of Brown.
    If we're considering the cost to get these guys, yes Carter is probably the best option since he's likely to be drafted last of the 3, although I don't think any team from 8-10 is interested in dealing with us so it's likely going to be a similar cost to get a pick in the 4-7 range as the other 2.

    I don't understand how you can so definitively say Bamba is best for our system or draft history. In terms of draft history, Ainge's draft choices are far from a repetitive pattern. He doesn't look at draft prospects in a one-dimensonal manner simply based their athleticism or hustle. For every skill-based player we drafted like Sully, Smart, JJJ, Tatum ( only to an extent, his athleticism was clearly underrated by NBA scouts and I'm sure Boston saw otherwise in private workouts), he's been in love with Avery Bradley, Rajon Rondo, James Young and Justise Winslow, incredible athletes who did have a few NBA skills, but certainly not at the level of the first group. There's been guys like Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown, Fab Melo, Yabusele, that were clearly very raw and project players.

    I think you're right about Ainge typically targeting guys with high IQ both on and off court. May not apply to guys like Young, Melo, Terry, but definitely is what cooled him off on Fultz. I don't think he'd be interested in Bagley because of that. How does that apply to JJJ and Bamba? Both have great defensive instincts, superior to Carter IMO. The combo of length, hustle and IQ is Ainge's sweet spot IMO, and all three of these guys possess it, but Bamba/JJJ to a greater extent. Bamba was Ivy League bound if he didn't have NBA aspirations.

    I really think all 3 of these guys have tremendously high floors, but there is much more for Bamba or JJJ to offer with their defensive versatility. None of the three project to be a top 3 scoring option on a championship team. I' drather have a great defensive big man with an ok offensive game than a good defender with an above average offensive game.

    Again all 3 guys are great prospects and I'd be happy to get any of the 3, but in terms of fit (not including compensation to get them) Bamba and JJJ definitely are easy fits and argubaly a higher ceiling than Wendell

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Nope... Sorry but no cheaters allowed... If you are caught cheating you shouldnt be next to guys that have done nothing wrong... Lets put a cheater like brady next to some of the best QBs ever like Young and Montana

    He has cheated several times and now lies about it and looks like a scumbag pos
    The Death of PSD.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,509
    Quote Originally Posted by Sportfan View Post
    If we're considering the cost to get these guys, yes Carter is probably the best option since he's likely to be drafted last of the 3, although I don't think any team from 8-10 is interested in dealing with us so it's likely going to be a similar cost to get a pick in the 4-7 range as the other 2.

    I don't understand how you can so definitively say Bamba is best for our system or draft history. In terms of draft history, Ainge's draft choices are far from a repetitive pattern. He doesn't look at draft prospects in a one-dimensonal manner simply based their athleticism or hustle. For every skill-based player we drafted like Sully, Smart, JJJ, Tatum ( only to an extent, his athleticism was clearly underrated by NBA scouts and I'm sure Boston saw otherwise in private workouts), he's been in love with Avery Bradley, Rajon Rondo, James Young and Justise Winslow, incredible athletes who did have a few NBA skills, but certainly not at the level of the first group. There's been guys like Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown, Fab Melo, Yabusele, that were clearly very raw and project players.

    I think you're right about Ainge typically targeting guys with high IQ both on and off court. May not apply to guys like Young, Melo, Terry, but definitely is what cooled him off on Fultz. I don't think he'd be interested in Bagley because of that. How does that apply to JJJ and Bamba? Both have great defensive instincts, superior to Carter IMO. The combo of length, hustle and IQ is Ainge's sweet spot IMO, and all three of these guys possess it, but Bamba/JJJ to a greater extent. Bamba was Ivy League bound if he didn't have NBA aspirations.

    I really think all 3 of these guys have tremendously high floors, but there is much more for Bamba or JJJ to offer with their defensive versatility. None of the three project to be a top 3 scoring option on a championship team. I' drather have a great defensive big man with an ok offensive game than a good defender with an above average offensive game.

    Again all 3 guys are great prospects and I'd be happy to get any of the 3, but in terms of fit (not including compensation to get them) Bamba and JJJ definitely are easy fits and argubaly a higher ceiling than Wendell
    I'm not going to compare guys like Sully and Bradley who were late first round picks. Late round picks...You take the best player you can get. When you're drafting at the top of the order I think the same logic applies, but again...Danny has a checklist. And very high on that checklist is IQ, skill, grit, defense. All of the guys Danny has picked early in the draft - let's say in the lottery, checked more of those boxes than the other players he didn't draft. When you're picking late in the draft, everything's a crap shoot. If it's a weak draft class, yeah, take a gamble on hitting a homerun, why not its only a late pick anyways.

    Also not going to compare guys like Winslow, because really, he didn't draft him so he shouldn't be part of the equation.

    I see a very consistent pattern based on where guys were drafted.

    You can say Bamba and JJJ are easy fits...But Danny hasn't shown a willingness to draft guys like them in the past. He hasn't had any that I can remember even on the roster. Carter Jr. is in the mold of Horford. That's the type of big Ainge loves. Skilled bigs, not overly athletic. Since I can remember these are the type of guys Ainge has drafted early or signed as Free Agents. The closest guy I could say to either of them and he's really not even that close to them at all is Perkins. Outside of that, can't think of a single player in their mold that has been on the C's in the last 10-15 years.

    City of Champions

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    43,995
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Outside of that, can't think of a single player in their mold that has been on the C's in the last 10-15 years.
    Fab Melo and Acie Earl were our last ones (erm....). C's really never had such guys.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    32,106
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I'm not going to compare guys like Sully and Bradley who were late first round picks. Late round picks...You take the best player you can get. When you're drafting at the top of the order I think the same logic applies, but again...Danny has a checklist. And very high on that checklist is IQ, skill, grit, defense. All of the guys Danny has picked early in the draft - let's say in the lottery, checked more of those boxes than the other players he didn't draft. When you're picking late in the draft, everything's a crap shoot. If it's a weak draft class, yeah, take a gamble on hitting a homerun, why not its only a late pick anyways.

    Also not going to compare guys like Winslow, because really, he didn't draft him so he shouldn't be part of the equation.

    I see a very consistent pattern based on where guys were drafted.

    You can say Bamba and JJJ are easy fits...But Danny hasn't shown a willingness to draft guys like them in the past. He hasn't had any that I can remember even on the roster. Carter Jr. is in the mold of Horford. That's the type of big Ainge loves. Skilled bigs, not overly athletic. Since I can remember these are the type of guys Ainge has drafted early or signed as Free Agents. The closest guy I could say to either of them and he's really not even that close to them at all is Perkins. Outside of that, can't think of a single player in their mold that has been on the C's in the last 10-15 years.
    I mean his lottery choices are Kelly Olynyk, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, and Jayson Tatum. I think the categories you listed are a good indicator of what Ainge looks for, but Smart is the only one that hits more than 2 of those boxes. As prospects, Tatum definitely wasn't known for his defense or grit, neither was KO, and Jaylen wasn't considered to be highly-skilled/polished or possess a good basketball IQ. He passed on Josh Jackson who you could argue checks off all those boxes.

    You also missed a HUGE trait, probably the #1 thing Ainge and Stevens (he 100% has draft input) look for. Switchability.

    How is JJJ not a Ainge/Stevens guy? Athletic, mobile, agile big man that can defend multiple positions, has a high bball IQ, crazy wingspan, and can shoot. Bamba doesn't have the same shooting touch but is an incredible shot blocker and rim protector and can defend the perimeter as well.


    Your logic that Ainge has never had a guy like JJJ/Bamba on the roster is flawed. There was no big man in the last 2 drafts that was anywhere close to the prospects these 2 are. Best prospect was probably Issac and he's primarily a forward. I doubt he would have passed on KAT, Porzingis, WCS, Turner, if he had a higher draft pick in 2015, because they "weren't his type." Who has he drafted comparable to Wendell? I understand Carter gets Horford comparisons, but saying he hasn't had players on his roster like Bamba and JJJ doesn't prove anything. There's also a few guys in the NBA with Bamba measurements. Guys like JJJ haven't been adopted in the NBA until a few years ago, hell you could argue JJJ compares to a prospect KG. I'd also argue Jajuan Johnson was an Ainge pick with a similar profile to Jaren Jackson but he had more of a midrange game, older, less potential and different time period.

    I'm not trying to **** on Carter, he's a really good prospect with few weaknesses, but if we somehow managed to trade up to #4 and Ayton/Doncic/Bagley are off the board, you really think Carter is who we take?




    I also disagree completely that Horford isn't an athletic player. His game doesn't rely on explosiveness and verticality, but he is absolutely one of the most well-rounded athletes at the center position. His matchup with Embiid is all you need to see as evidence. 10 games this postseason with 37+ minutes, 4 with 40+. And that's while being the team's main facilitator and rotating around the perimeter and post.
    Last edited by Sportfan; 06-14-2018 at 11:41 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Nope... Sorry but no cheaters allowed... If you are caught cheating you shouldnt be next to guys that have done nothing wrong... Lets put a cheater like brady next to some of the best QBs ever like Young and Montana

    He has cheated several times and now lies about it and looks like a scumbag pos
    The Death of PSD.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Worcester, MA
    Posts
    597
    We keep talking about bigs and for good reason, but I think Dannyís real game here is Michael Porter. Before he hurt his back, he was projected to go #1 in the draft. Some people were even comparing him to Durant. Thatís an unfair comparison for any player but the point is this: where has the hype gone for this guy? Itís crazy that one injury vaults him behind so many other guys. He dominated the Nike Hoops Summit against his peers as a senior.

    Danny and Brad both love positionless basketball and I could see them wanting to pair Porter with Brown and Tatum long term. Porter would be #2 on my board even after the injury. I would love for them to take a shot on MPJ.
    Last edited by BostonBoy; 06-15-2018 at 12:22 AM.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    43,995
    Quote Originally Posted by BostonBoy View Post
    We keep talking about bigs and for good reason, but I think Dannyís real game here is Michael Porter. Before he hurt his back, he was projected to go #1 in the draft. Some people were even comparing him to Durant. Thatís an unfair comparison for any player but the point is this: where has the hype gone for this guy? Itís crazy that one injury vaults him behind so many other guys. He dominated the Nike Hoops Summit against his peers as a senior.

    Danny and Brad both love positionless basketball and I could see them wanting to pair Porter with Brown and Tatum long term. Porter would be #2 on my board even after the injury. I would love for them to take a shot on MPJ.
    Porter isn't very physical. Not much of a rebounder. Not a good enough dribbler to get into the paint against good defenders. Meh passer. Great stroke. With Tatum here Porter seems to be more of the same - but not as good. He doesn't appear to be able to play C against any real C. High side he's LaFrentz, downside he's McCarty.

    Most have him going #4, and if we got #4 I wouldn't draft him if I was DA. I would take JJJ with #4, or potentially move the pick down to about #8-9 for Carter. Bamba's offensive game developing to fit here is a big gamble.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 06-15-2018 at 06:53 AM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    43,995
    Quote Originally Posted by Sportfan View Post
    Your logic that Ainge has never had a guy like JJJ/Bamba on the roster is flawed. There was no big man in the last 2 drafts that was anywhere close to the prospects these 2 are. Best prospect was probably Issac and he's primarily a forward. I doubt he would have passed on KAT, Porzingis, WCS, Turner, if he had a higher draft pick in 2015, because they "weren't his type."
    Ainge has been the GM for 14 years. He's drafted/signed/traded for literally hundreds of players - including some high picks and Oakmont is right. DA could have picked up some of the current flotsam and jetsam of defensive centers that very athletic for cheap, and he's hasn't moved on them.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Worcester, MA
    Posts
    597
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Porter isn't very physical. Not much of a rebounder. Not a good enough dribbler to get into the paint against good defenders. Meh passer. Great stroke. With Tatum here Porter seems to be more of the same - but not as good. He doesn't appear to be able to play C against any real C. High side he's LaFrentz, downside he's McCarty.

    Most have him going #4, and if we got #4 I wouldn't draft him if I was DA. I would take JJJ with #4, or potentially move the pick down to about #8-9 for Carter. Bamba's offensive game developing to fit here is a big gamble.
    He averaged 14.3 rebounds his senior year of high school and itís extremely difficult to decipher anything from his college stint since he was playing hurt. I donít think anyone knows what type of rebounder he truly is, though I will say he averaged more boards than Jontay in high school.

    Heís definitely a good enough dribbler to get into the paint. Heís not uber athletic but heís athletic enough and also crafty.

    Yes he duplicates Tatumís skill set a bit, but you wouldnít want two of Tatum? If we could have Tatum at PF, Porter at SF, Brown at SG long term shooting lights out, Iím for it.

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,509
    Quote Originally Posted by Sportfan View Post
    I mean his lottery choices are Kelly Olynyk, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, and Jayson Tatum. I think the categories you listed are a good indicator of what Ainge looks for, but Smart is the only one that hits more than 2 of those boxes. As prospects, Tatum definitely wasn't known for his defense or grit, neither was KO, and Jaylen wasn't considered to be highly-skilled/polished or possess a good basketball IQ. He passed on Josh Jackson who you could argue checks off all those boxes.

    You also missed a HUGE trait, probably the #1 thing Ainge and Stevens (he 100% has draft input) look for. Switchability.

    How is JJJ not a Ainge/Stevens guy? Athletic, mobile, agile big man that can defend multiple positions, has a high bball IQ, crazy wingspan, and can shoot. Bamba doesn't have the same shooting touch but is an incredible shot blocker and rim protector and can defend the perimeter as well.


    Your logic that Ainge has never had a guy like JJJ/Bamba on the roster is flawed. There was no big man in the last 2 drafts that was anywhere close to the prospects these 2 are. Best prospect was probably Issac and he's primarily a forward. I doubt he would have passed on KAT, Porzingis, WCS, Turner, if he had a higher draft pick in 2015, because they "weren't his type." Who has he drafted comparable to Wendell? I understand Carter gets Horford comparisons, but saying he hasn't had players on his roster like Bamba and JJJ doesn't prove anything. There's also a few guys in the NBA with Bamba measurements. Guys like JJJ haven't been adopted in the NBA until a few years ago, hell you could argue JJJ compares to a prospect KG. I'd also argue Jajuan Johnson was an Ainge pick with a similar profile to Jaren Jackson but he had more of a midrange game, older, less potential and different time period.

    I'm not trying to **** on Carter, he's a really good prospect with few weaknesses, but if we somehow managed to trade up to #4 and Ayton/Doncic/Bagley are off the board, you really think Carter is who we take?




    I also disagree completely that Horford isn't an athletic player. His game doesn't rely on explosiveness and verticality, but he is absolutely one of the most well-rounded athletes at the center position. His matchup with Embiid is all you need to see as evidence. 10 games this postseason with 37+ minutes, 4 with 40+. And that's while being the team's main facilitator and rotating around the perimeter and post.
    I'm not going to break this post down further. We're simply not going to agree. The facts state that Ainge simply doesn't value the super athletic C/rim protector. He's had ample opportunity to draft/sign/trade for them in the past 14-15 years whatever it's been and he simply hasn't. His history shows he doesn't value that kind of player. There's really no argument otherwise. I feel like you think just because Ainge doesn't value them it makes them not good players. That's not true and not what I'm saying. Just simply saying, history shows Danny doesn't value them and to think he's going to give up premium assets for them now when he never has, even when he didn't have to give up assets, means he likely won't.

    City of Champions

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,509
    Quote Originally Posted by BostonBoy View Post
    He averaged 14.3 rebounds his senior year of high school and itís extremely difficult to decipher anything from his college stint since he was playing hurt. I donít think anyone knows what type of rebounder he truly is, though I will say he averaged more boards than Jontay in high school.

    Heís definitely a good enough dribbler to get into the paint. Heís not uber athletic but heís athletic enough and also crafty.

    Yes he duplicates Tatumís skill set a bit, but you wouldnít want two of Tatum? If we could have Tatum at PF, Porter at SF, Brown at SG long term shooting lights out, Iím for it.
    I think Porter leads this draft class in one category hands down...Skinniest legs imaginable.

    City of Champions

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    43,995
    Quote Originally Posted by BostonBoy View Post
    He averaged 14.3 rebounds his senior year of high school and itís extremely difficult to decipher anything from his college stint since he was playing hurt. I donít think anyone knows what type of rebounder he truly is, though I will say he averaged more boards than Jontay in high school.

    Heís definitely a good enough dribbler to get into the paint. Heís not uber athletic but heís athletic enough and also crafty.

    Yes he duplicates Tatumís skill set a bit, but you wouldnít want two of Tatum? If we could have Tatum at PF, Porter at SF, Brown at SG long term shooting lights out, Iím for it.
    High School? Level of competition? Any guy that makes the pros should probably average a double double in HS.

    He's a good enough dribbler to get a rebound and get down an open floor. He hasn't got enough fakes, change of speed/direction moves to penetrate the lane vs a good or better defender. Also the speed of the pro game is much faster than HS or college. As he is, he can't do it w/o a high level of turnovers.

    Sorry, not trying to be difficult, but I don't see him as a target here, and he's never going to be as good as Tatum. His D and his passing are also in question.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

Page 9 of 18 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •