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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    And that method is……………
    Ain’t torture. Go ahead with your saying stuff argument.

  2. #17
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    I would not authorize torture. No. End of statement. Period. Whatever else you need to make it 100% clear where I stand.

    There are plenty of ways that investigators get answers without torture. This should be abundantly obvious.

    I would be opposed to using drugs or other means of coercion.

    Who is the sniper shooting? A combatant on the battlefield or someone unconnected?

    If the closest thing to a cogent argument you can form is what happens to our people, you’re admitting how bad your argument is. You know that right? You think we should replicate behavior that you don’t support. So do you support them? The logical disconnect is strong with that argument.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    Yes. Shouldn't really be up for debate. The question is, is using torture to gain valuable information from captives acceptable?
    Yup

    (as in that is the REAL question)
    Anthony Mantha Breakout 16-17



  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny01 View Post
    Ain’t torture. Go ahead with your saying stuff argument.
    Right. So you don't have an answer.

    Until you do, maybe you should not criticize me.

  5. #20
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    At some point, you have to have a core that you stand for. If you back torture, what core do you have? What exactly are you defending?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I would not authorize torture. No. End of statement. Period. Whatever else you need to make it 100% clear where I stand.

    There are plenty of ways that investigators get answers without torture. This should be abundantly obvious.

    I would be opposed to using drugs or other means of coercion.

    Who is the sniper shooting? A combatant on the battlefield or someone unconnected?

    If the closest thing to a cogent argument you can form is what happens to our people, you’re admitting how bad your argument is. You know that right? You think we should replicate behavior that you don’t support. So do you support them? The logical disconnect is strong with that argument.
    Well you're tap dancing around this pretty well.

    "There are plenty of ways that investigators get answers without torture. This should be abundantly obvious. "

    It isn't abundantly obvious. What are those ways? I'm sure we've come right out and asked for info. I'm sure we've asked nicely. I'm sure we made promises of release and repatriation. I'm sure we've promised a copy of the Koran, throw in a prayer mat, point out which was is east. So we've used up the abundant ways…now what comes next?

    Drugs seems somewhat harmless. Granted you have to take the info you get with a grain of salt, but what's the harm in using truth drugs or whatever?

    he sniper sees a cluster of suspects around a campfire and recognizes one as a Taliban leader…OK to shoot in cold blood from a distance?

    Bolded part…just drivel to deflect the fact that you have no suggestion other than "I wouldn't do it." Not much of a statement in my book.

    If you thought aggressive questioning would save your wife and kids, you hook Omar's nuts up to a car battery to get the info.

    An he'd do the same to you for far less.

    It's not a nice place out there.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Right. So you don't have an answer.

    Until you do, maybe you should not criticize me.
    Most effective technique is building a rapport, So I’d go with a McDonald’s milkshake. Being that it’s a big scary world, some people just don’t talk.

  8. #23
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    Also, as to the OP - Just because this guy can handle it doesn't make it not torture.

    I can handle Chinese water torture for a small period, it's a rather benign action with horrendous results over time.

    There's also a big difference between a guy wanting to be waterboarded and a guy being waterboarded against his will - in terms of affect on their mental health.
    Last edited by Ezekial; 05-14-2018 at 06:55 PM.
    Anthony Mantha Breakout 16-17



  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    At some point, you have to have a core that you stand for. If you back torture, what core do you have? What exactly are you defending?
    I agree with this. I would have a line I wouldn't cross. I just don't think waterboarding comes close to that line.

    Truth drugs, sleep deprivation, constant annoying music, cutback on food, maybe a few pushes and shoves…doesn't seem all that bad in the grand scheme of things.

    Pulling out fingernails, cutting off body parts, mutilation etc…well that's another story. Still what f you knew the guy knew where a nuclear bomb was hidden in NYC. I dunno.

    Don't know if this is true…
    Guy told me a story of how his unit captured several Viet Cong prisoners. They tried to get info out of them with no luck. On the way back to basecamp in a chopper, one GI reach over, unhooked a prisoner's seatbelt and shoved him out. The other prisoners talked like magpies and gave out some valuable info. Could be a BS story over beers on R&R. I dunno for sure. Maybe not. Does the end justify the means? Different situations call for different methods.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny01 View Post
    Most effective technique is building a rapport, So I’d go with a McDonald’s milkshake. Being that it’s a big scary world, some people just don’t talk.
    Don't you think this is the first thing an interrogator tries to do. Do you think you're the only one with this "secret." Waterboarding is way down the list.

  11. #26
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    Torture doesn’t provide anything.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Don't you think this is the first thing an interrogator tries to do. Do you think you're the only one with this "secret." Waterboarding is way down the list.
    About as far down the list as beating your car with a bat if it doesn’t start.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Well you're tap dancing around this pretty well.

    "There are plenty of ways that investigators get answers without torture. This should be abundantly obvious. "

    It isn't abundantly obvious. What are those ways? I'm sure we've come right out and asked for info. I'm sure we've asked nicely. I'm sure we made promises of release and repatriation. I'm sure we've promised a copy of the Koran, throw in a prayer mat, point out which was is east. So we've used up the abundant ways…now what comes next?

    Drugs seems somewhat harmless. Granted you have to take the info you get with a grain of salt, but what's the harm in using truth drugs or whatever?

    he sniper sees a cluster of suspects around a campfire and recognizes one as a Taliban leader…OK to shoot in cold blood from a distance?

    Bolded part…just drivel to deflect the fact that you have no suggestion other than "I wouldn't do it." Not much of a statement in my book.

    If you thought aggressive questioning would save your wife and kids, you hook Omar's nuts up to a car battery to get the info.

    An he'd do the same to you for far less.

    It's not a nice place out there.
    I don't know all the techniques that we use to be honest. I am by no means an expert but the military and civilian investigators manage to get the information that we need to solve the problem at hand.

    Sure I assume the sniper could shoot without issue. It sounds like what you are describing is an event on the battlefield. If the sniper is shooting a terrorist leader, then the term cold blood would be inaccurate.

    The use of drugs to get information getting useless info is the same issue that you have with torture. It gets the answer the stops the torture not the right answer. It gets lies or whatever they can do to make it stop.

    Saying that I would not authorize any torture is a very bold statement. It's not a politically popular thing to say sadly.

    It sounds like you're trying the Michael Dukakis question. The answer is that I would obviously want to do everything that I could to save someone that I cared about. My decision making would be horribly skewed by my grieve and anguish. I would say or do anything that I could. In that situation that I would obviously want to do things that would be illegal and immoral. But that's the whole reason that we have unbias people involved in those cases rather than those who are affected by the circumstances. It allows cooler heads to prevail and better outcomes to be achieved.
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    I agree with this. I would have a line I wouldn't cross. I just don't think waterboarding comes close to that line.

    Truth drugs, sleep deprivation, constant annoying music, cutback on food, maybe a few pushes and shoves…doesn't seem all that bad in the grand scheme of things.

    Pulling out fingernails, cutting off body parts, mutilation etc…well that's another story. Still what f you knew the guy knew where a nuclear bomb was hidden in NYC. I dunno.

    Don't know if this is true…
    Guy told me a story of how his unit captured several Viet Cong prisoners. They tried to get info out of them with no luck. On the way back to basecamp in a chopper, one GI reach over, unhooked a prisoner's seatbelt and shoved him out. The other prisoners talked like magpies and gave out some valuable info. Could be a BS story over beers on R&R. I dunno for sure. Maybe not. Does the end justify the means? Different situations call for different methods.
    That was in a war movie, I don't know which one because it was so long ago, but it was definitely in a war movie. Maybe your friend's experience was similar to the one that movie writer knew of.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    That was in a war movie, I don't know which one because it was so long ago, but it was definitely in a war movie. Maybe your friend's experience was similar to the one that movie writer knew of.
    Nah people wouldn't make decisions to support torture based on movies or the TV show 24...
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!

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