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  1. #31
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    Been listening to podcasts over the weekend and everything that I am hearing is that Jazz will probably play it safe this off-season and highly value the unselfish culture that was built (or at least strengthened) this year. So here are my thoughts on a "safe" off-season.

    Resign Favors and Exum
    Sign Nemanja Bjelica from the Wolves
    Draft best player available

    PG - Rubio (30 min) - Exum (18 min)
    SG -Mitchell (35 min) - Oneal (13 min)
    SF - Ingles (25 min) - Crowder (15 min) - Oneal (8 min)
    PF - Favors (12 min) - BJelica (20 min) - Crowder (16 min)
    C - Gobert (30 min)) - Favors (18 min)

    I think that would be a solid rotation... keeping minutes down, especially during the regular season to keep everyone healthy and fresh. Plus, this would be year 2 of most of them playing together, so they have chemistry already. Last year they had to give people more minutes together because they were trying to build that chemistry.

    As I was thinking about what to do with Burks, I was looking at what team's system may be the best fit for Burks and the Nets came to mind. They are young, aggressive, and are a bit trigger happy. Perfect fit for Burks. Trade Burks for DeMarre Carroll. Yes, he is over paid... But he is a dog on defense and can shoot the three. He is very similar to Crowder. He can play the 3 or the 4, just like Crowder. Add him to the mix while only losing Burks and our team becomes extremely deep and keeps building on our defensive identity.

  2. #32
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    that's the first depth chart i've seen on here that i could get behind. and i agree, burks needs to go and i'd absolutely welcome carroll back. to have carroll and crowder on the same team would be fantastic. both are fiery on defense, can hit the 3, and have awesome hair.
    HAWKS '13 ,'1 4, & '15 PREMIERS


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  3. #33
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    So apparently Denver is willing to give it's 14th pick away with Kenneth Faried as long as we're willing to take his contract, which expires next summer. I would LOVE to pick up his contract and trade him off, or waive him at the deadline. The Denver picks are good luck!! You can't just let this one go.

    I would be perfectly happy with standing pat, re-upping favors and exum, and going after a free agent next off-season, with Farried and Burks off the books along with half our 2-3rd string players.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefistus View Post
    So apparently Denver is willing to give it's 14th pick away with Kenneth Faried as long as we're willing to take his contract, which expires next summer. I would LOVE to pick up his contract and trade him off, or waive him at the deadline. The Denver picks are good luck!! You can't just let this one go.

    I would be perfectly happy with standing pat, re-upping favors and exum, and going after a free agent next off-season, with Farried and Burks off the books along with half our 2-3rd string players.
    I would be surprised to see them do that straight up. Lottery picks are just too valuable and Faried's contract is not that toxic. As you said, he only has one more year and he is a serviceable bench energy player. If they are willing to take our unguarenteed contracts in exchange for manimal and their 1st round pick... you do it.

    However, I don't want to see us draft a bunch of rookies. Our team is capable of winning now. We already have 3 players on the roster who will be year 2 players next year. So if we did get another 1st round pick, you package that for a trade for a player or package it to move up further in the draft to draft a player who can make a more immediate impact.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raupie View Post
    However, I don't want to see us draft a bunch of rookies. Our team is capable of winning now. We already have 3 players on the roster who will be year 2 players next year. So if we did get another 1st round pick, you package that for a trade for a player or package it to move up further in the draft to draft a player who can make a more immediate impact.
    It would be great if we could make a win now move, but I don't see it until next offseason. We don't have the cap space to make a big move. The restricted free agents are too risky to overpay. We really don't want to take on a bad contract and loose our financial flexibility. If someone has a realistic idea of a "win now" move I would love to hear it.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raupie View Post
    However, I don't want to see us draft a bunch of rookies. Our team is capable of winning now. We already have 3 players on the roster who will be year 2 players next year. So if we did get another 1st round pick, you package that for a trade for a player or package it to move up further in the draft to draft a player who can make a more immediate impact.
    I would have to disagree with the need to improve this off-season. The only player worth trying to acquire is Paul George, and supposedly we have zero chance of landing him. He's also 28, so he would be the old vet.

    I would rather us get a young pick, see if we can strike gold again. Then try to get someone like Kawhii Leonard next year in the off-season. He's younger, has better defense, and would match our system perfectly, a system that is partially adopted from Popavich.

    Who knows, maybe we pick up a stud this draft and don't even need him, but our cap space will be better next year no matter what we do.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefistus View Post
    I would have to disagree with the need to improve this off-season. The only player worth trying to acquire is Paul George, and supposedly we have zero chance of landing him. He's also 28, so he would be the old vet.

    I would rather us get a young pick, see if we can strike gold again. Then try to get someone like Kawhii Leonard next year in the off-season. He's younger, has better defense, and would match our system perfectly, a system that is partially adopted from Popavich.

    Who knows, maybe we pick up a stud this draft and don't even need him, but our cap space will be better next year no matter what we do.
    I think maybe you misunderstood what I am saying, I am saying we SHOULD be in win now mode. We have an all-star level talent on a rookie contract. We need to take advantage of that because it does not happen very often. What I am saying we should avoid this off-season is drafting lots of rookies because we feel like we are in "building mode". Though we are still improving and young, I don't think we should be in building mode, I think we should be in winning mode. Houston is going to be in some financial troubles this year with Capella due a big contract. Golden State has looked more vulnerable than in years past.

    To address the other contract, taking on a bad contract this year can still help us IF it gets us better talent. We are a good team who still has some financial flexibility and that is because we have some real good contracts on our team. So if a bad contract gets us a first round pick that we can package to move up to get a game changing player, that is worth it. If we take on a bad contract that stops us from signing a game changing player, maybe it is not worth it. But not sure there are any free agents this off-season that we think are game changing that we can afford and who want to play with us. So using our cap space in other ways to improve our team should be an option.

    Having an all-star calibur player on a rookie contract is a recipe for success. So we need to take advantage of that and make a run before we have to pay Mitchell and we lose our financial flexibility.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raupie View Post
    I think maybe you misunderstood what I am saying, I am saying we SHOULD be in win now mode. We have an all-star level talent on a rookie contract. We need to take advantage of that because it does not happen very often. What I am saying we should avoid this off-season is drafting lots of rookies because we feel like we are in "building mode". Though we are still improving and young, I don't think we should be in building mode, I think we should be in winning mode. Houston is going to be in some financial troubles this year with Capella due a big contract. Golden State has looked more vulnerable than in years past.

    To address the other contract, taking on a bad contract this year can still help us IF it gets us better talent. We are a good team who still has some financial flexibility and that is because we have some real good contracts on our team. So if a bad contract gets us a first round pick that we can package to move up to get a game changing player, that is worth it. If we take on a bad contract that stops us from signing a game changing player, maybe it is not worth it. But not sure there are any free agents this off-season that we think are game changing that we can afford and who want to play with us. So using our cap space in other ways to improve our team should be an option.

    Having an all-star calibur player on a rookie contract is a recipe for success. So we need to take advantage of that and make a run before we have to pay Mitchell and we lose our financial flexibility.
    Oh, I understand now, and I agree with you. The question is who does DL want to draft. I personally hope he has a stretch 4 our there that has awesome defense. That would be great. I don't mind Jerebko, but his defense is just not good for our system. So I would like to find a solid replacement for him through the draft.

  9. #39
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    I do think we need to do something, but I don't know what it is we can do. we don't have the assets for trades. we don't have the cap space this offseason to sign someone without dumping all of our free agents and trading someone. only thing I have heard is that the wizards might dump someone so maybe we can get an otto porter. he would pretty much end our cap space for even next year so is he worth it.

  10. #40
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    Michael Porter is the player I want to see us draft. He has been mocked to go mostly from 6-8. The Magic are pick 6. They have major talent issues and salary cap issues. Is there anyway for us to trade up to pick 6 without giving up any part of our corps?

    I have heard they want Exum... maybe a sign and trade as part of the deal? Take on a bad contract, give them Exum and our first?

    If that is too high, Mikal Bridges is who I would target who is projected to go around pick 10.

    If we do not move up, I am good with Kevin Hueter with our current pick. Though he doesn't really help our PF situation.

    Our non-guarenteed contracts are valuable. So if we use them to gain an additional draft pick, that is where we need to figure out how to package it to move up further.

  11. #41
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    Agree he would kill our cap space. But he is a nice player, just on an overpaid contract. I don't think he can handle the PF spot and I really don't think Jingles can as well. So if we trade for him, I think you would see him start at the 3 and that would move Joe to the bench. Not a bad thing, just we just would still need to address the PF spot.

  12. #42
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    We have a great team, but we have a long way to go to be a real contender. The Rockets beat us pretty good in 4 of the 5 games. If your building a team to beat veterans Harden and Paul or Curry and Durrant you need a lot of firepower. Even if lightning struck and we signed astar in free agency like Paul George we are still lacking the team chemistry and internal development needed to beat these juggernauts. It takes years to build championship chemistry. Mitchell is better than I could have hoped for, but he is not ready to exchange baskets in a playoff series with Harden, Curry, and Durrant. Not yet.

    I'm hoping Rudy and Spida are enough to attract top NBA free agents. I'm sure we will try. The facts are this organization has never signed a top free agent. Never! Out best free agent signings are arguably Boozer and Okur. They were far from top free agents, in fact they were both risks we had to overpay. Yes signing Kawai would be sweet but it is unlikely he passes up the supermax from the championship pedigree Spurs, or better yet leaves them to come here. Dream all you want, but don't get frustrated when the front office can't land a superstar in free agency. It has never happened before. Free agency may not be how we can build a team in Utah.

    I think the Jazz championship window is a few years away. Let Lebron and the Warriors age a few years and get tired from going deep into the playoffs every year. Adding an aging star would be great for now, but we may have a better shot at a championship if our players age fit our timeline.

    I get the argument about going for it when Mitchell has a low contract. That assumes we can add top talent, and that Mitchell can lead us past the NBA elite in his 2nd and 3rd years. OK that plan sucks. Lebron and Jordan couldn't do that on their rookie contracts but we think Mitchell can? So for that plan to work we need the organization to do something it has never done, and Mitchell to do something no player has ever done. If I could invest my entire retirement against this plan working out I would.

  13. #43
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    So winning a championship is pretty hard, and if that is your only measure of success... then you are right this plan and probably every other plan Utah does is probably going to fail. In fact, every team will fail except the one team that wins the championship.

    You mention this is not a good time for the Jazz to take their shot, but I would argue differently.

    Houston could lose Capella in free agency, Chris Paul is getting older and continues to battle injuries, a number of Houston's supporting cast is getting older as well. I do not think they will be as good next year as they were this year.

    Warriors have shown themselves to be more vulnerable this year. Injury issues have increased. Lack of quality depth has been an issue. Yes, when they are clicking on all cylinders they are tough to beat, but they have sputtered more this year than years past... they probably would have lost to the rockets if Chris Paul didn't get hurt. They are still great, don't get me wrong, but not unbeatable... especially if they have any injuries.

    Spurs are old and who knows what will happen with Leonard.

    Blazers are too far over the cap to add any real talent and most of their talent is older.

    And you say that Mitchell can't lead the Jazz over these other stars. However, I thought that was the beauty of this Jazz team, their strength is the team. Rubio outplayed Westbrook one game, then the next night Favors was the hero, then the next day Gobert, then Ingles or Mitchell. I agree that expecting Mitchell to battle those players head to head for a series is too much to ask of him in a young career... however, he doesn't have to do it alone.

    I will agree with you that the superstar driven league has been what wins championship the last few years... but the NBA is always changing... defense and teamwork could possibly work in the new NBA, and the Jazz are the leaders in that area. Plus, some would argue Gobert is a superstar.. and if Mitchell is or becomes one, that would give the Jazz two stars... so they will or could have some star power in their own right.

    I agree that we can keep building for the future, but I disagree that we can't be competitive for a championship now. We played the Rockets without Rubio. Then we lost Exum. Then we lost Mitchell. I know we can't blame injuries, but the Rockets were winning the Golden State series until they lost Paul. If it was reversed that Paul was hurt and Rubio was healthy, I think we probably would have won that series. Either way, it is going to be hard for the Rockets to improve this offseason given their age and salary... the Jazz on the other hand should improve given their assets to make some moves and age.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    We have a great team, but we have a long way to go to be a real contender. The Rockets beat us pretty good in 4 of the 5 games. If your building a team to beat veterans Harden and Paul or Curry and Durrant you need a lot of firepower. Even if lightning struck and we signed astar in free agency like Paul George we are still lacking the team chemistry and internal development needed to beat these juggernauts. It takes years to build championship chemistry. Mitchell is better than I could have hoped for, but he is not ready to exchange baskets in a playoff series with Harden, Curry, and Durrant. Not yet.

    I'm hoping Rudy and Spida are enough to attract top NBA free agents. I'm sure we will try. The facts are this organization has never signed a top free agent. Never! Out best free agent signings are arguably Boozer and Okur. They were far from top free agents, in fact they were both risks we had to overpay. Yes signing Kawai would be sweet but it is unlikely he passes up the supermax from the championship pedigree Spurs, or better yet leaves them to come here. Dream all you want, but don't get frustrated when the front office can't land a superstar in free agency. It has never happened before. Free agency may not be how we can build a team in Utah.

    I think the Jazz championship window is a few years away. Let Lebron and the Warriors age a few years and get tired from going deep into the playoffs every year. Adding an aging star would be great for now, but we may have a better shot at a championship if our players age fit our timeline.

    I get the argument about going for it when Mitchell has a low contract. That assumes we can add top talent, and that Mitchell can lead us past the NBA elite in his 2nd and 3rd years. OK that plan sucks. Lebron and Jordan couldn't do that on their rookie contracts but we think Mitchell can? So for that plan to work we need the organization to do something it has never done, and Mitchell to do something no player has ever done. If I could invest my entire retirement against this plan working out I would.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raupie View Post
    So winning a championship is pretty hard, and if that is your only measure of success... then you are right this plan and probably every other plan Utah does is probably going to fail. In fact, every team will fail except the one team that wins the championship.

    You mention this is not a good time for the Jazz to take their shot, but I would argue differently.

    Houston could lose Capella in free agency, Chris Paul is getting older and continues to battle injuries, a number of Houston's supporting cast is getting older as well. I do not think they will be as good next year as they were this year.

    Warriors have shown themselves to be more vulnerable this year. Injury issues have increased. Lack of quality depth has been an issue. Yes, when they are clicking on all cylinders they are tough to beat, but they have sputtered more this year than years past... they probably would have lost to the rockets if Chris Paul didn't get hurt. They are still great, don't get me wrong, but not unbeatable... especially if they have any injuries.

    Spurs are old and who knows what will happen with Leonard.

    Blazers are too far over the cap to add any real talent and most of their talent is older.

    And you say that Mitchell can't lead the Jazz over these other stars. However, I thought that was the beauty of this Jazz team, their strength is the team. Rubio outplayed Westbrook one game, then the next night Favors was the hero, then the next day Gobert, then Ingles or Mitchell. I agree that expecting Mitchell to battle those players head to head for a series is too much to ask of him in a young career... however, he doesn't have to do it alone.

    I will agree with you that the superstar driven league has been what wins championship the last few years... but the NBA is always changing... defense and teamwork could possibly work in the new NBA, and the Jazz are the leaders in that area. Plus, some would argue Gobert is a superstar.. and if Mitchell is or becomes one, that would give the Jazz two stars... so they will or could have some star power in their own right.

    I agree that we can keep building for the future, but I disagree that we can't be competitive for a championship now. We played the Rockets without Rubio. Then we lost Exum. Then we lost Mitchell. I know we can't blame injuries, but the Rockets were winning the Golden State series until they lost Paul. If it was reversed that Paul was hurt and Rubio was healthy, I think we probably would have won that series. Either way, it is going to be hard for the Rockets to improve this offseason given their age and salary... the Jazz on the other hand should improve given their assets to make some moves and age.

    I appreciate your feedback. This is what makes this website enjoyable. I think the real difference in our opinions comes down to one thing. Are the Jazz truly close to competing with the Warriors? You think we are closer than I do. I sure hope you're right.

    I posted what I did because too many Jazz fans think the GM job for the Jazz is easy. Too many 2K trades or hours on the ESPN trade machine. This is shown every time I see a "just sign Lebron or Kawai" type comment. Even adding Lebron this summer is no guarantee we would beat the Warriors. Yes, the Warriors are that good. This website is fun when people bring ideas to the forum. For me, I like the realistic ideas. By realistic ideas I mean ideas that actually have a decent percentage chance of happening. Not the less than 1% prayer that some superstar wants to come to Utah to live. In my opinion adding a tier 2 player is as good as it will get in Utah in free agency. That is success to me, but it is still not enough to beat the Warriors until our 2 studs develop more. I agree that both Mitchell and Gobert are NBA stars. I can see them both developing into perennial all NBA talent. Is it enough? Not now, but once the next wave of stars rises to the top we should be a contender. If there is a win now move we can make then amen. I think a more realistic move is adding someone over the next few years that is young and we can develop from a tier 2 player to the top.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    I appreciate your feedback. This is what makes this website enjoyable. I think the real difference in our opinions comes down to one thing. Are the Jazz truly close to competing with the Warriors? You think we are closer than I do. I sure hope you're right.

    I posted what I did because too many Jazz fans think the GM job for the Jazz is easy. Too many 2K trades or hours on the ESPN trade machine. This is shown every time I see a "just sign Lebron or Kawai" type comment. Even adding Lebron this summer is no guarantee we would beat the Warriors. Yes, the Warriors are that good. This website is fun when people bring ideas to the forum. For me, I like the realistic ideas. By realistic ideas I mean ideas that actually have a decent percentage chance of happening. Not the less than 1% prayer that some superstar wants to come to Utah to live. In my opinion adding a tier 2 player is as good as it will get in Utah in free agency. That is success to me, but it is still not enough to beat the Warriors until our 2 studs develop more. I agree that both Mitchell and Gobert are NBA stars. I can see them both developing into perennial all NBA talent. Is it enough? Not now, but once the next wave of stars rises to the top we should be a contender. If there is a win now move we can make then amen. I think a more realistic move is adding someone over the next few years that is young and we can develop from a tier 2 player to the top.
    I agree, this group on the Jazz forum is really good. It is nice when you can have differing opinions with people and have positive and constructive opinions.

    Some of my concerns with "waiting to rebuild" are based on years of thinking we have core players and have them turn out not to be. Favors, Burks, Heyward, Kanter... lots of players of the years that we thought were a young core to build around. By the time the young "core" is ready to compete, alot can happen.

    I dont' want to risk the future to win now, but I think we are close enough that our window for a championship starts this coming year and is open at least until 2021 while Mitchell, Gobert, and Ingles are under contract.

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