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  1. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    They could literally rest Durant and Curry half the season and the warriors could still get close to 60 wins ... Iíve never seen another team like this in any sports history
    Barcelona but soccer is a different breed.

  2. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Yeah this site has more details on turnovers.
    http://www.nbaminer.com/player-turnover-details/

    NBA also tracks assists/turnovers committed on playtypes which showed that NOP is leaning heavily on Cousins to make plays. His Pass% and AST% on his usual play types (i.e driving/post ups) are quite high.

    NOP passes the ball a lot so they're more turnover prone. It's one of the drawbacks of playing a motion offence. Another factor is the constant personnel turnover which makes it difficult to get used to the system and develop chemistry. They also use their motion to find cutters rather than shooters and those passes then to be more turnover prone. This isn't to say Cousins doesn't make dumb passes/plays but I do think context matters.
    I don't have the time to look at it now but will definitely look later. Thanks for providing,

  3. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Not something you can gleam by looking at the boxscore.




    https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2017/1...v-channel-time


    https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orle...bcc8320bd.html

    Here's a video of Davis himself saying he took himself of minutes restriction.
    https://www.foxsports.com/southwest/video/1116214851736






    So? He still can't make an entry pass to save his life. Since it's not something you can gleam off of basketball reference, here are multiple articles talking about it.







    He can't create for either Davis or Cousins, so they need someone up top to make entry passes and to find the cutters.








    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...g-pelicans-nba

    So is Boogie forcing Davis to set screens for him?

    Here's a great article about why Cousins plays the way he does:
    https://www.si.com/nba/2017/11/17/de...s-james-harden





    http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...icans-offense/

    There are a ton of articles that talk about it since it was an interesting aberration. I honestly don't know what to tell you if you actually think two SSOL propagandists want Cousins to park his *** in the post 24/7, especially in the three point era.
    How was Davis tied for 6th in MPG if this minutes restriction was so detrimental to him? He played under 30 minutes in a game 7 times this year. So yeah, he may of had a minutes restriction for a game here or there but it's not like it was something that lasted for multiple games at a time. If you're really going to nit pick the odd game here or there then fine, you can have it. When you mentioned minutes restriction I thought you were talking for a week or two at a time.

    I've always liked Jrue's game. Yeah he's not good at making entry passes but he has a plethora of moves to beat people and if the help doesn't converge, he'll beat most defenders. When they do converge, he kicks out. He's always had a knack for finding the open man but yeah, with two bigs like Boogie and Davis it'll be tougher for him to operate. That's why I said Rondo is the better option for PG on the team. To say Jrue isn't a true PG is foolish though.

    I'm shocked about the Gentry quotes. He gets paid to do what he does but I just flat out disagree. If Cousins is shooting 46% from the top of the 3pt line that's great and I'll admit I was wrong in that aspect. He drops to 35% on the year though while taking 6 attempts a game. By all means, if his numbers are that impressive from the top as a trailer then keep it up. He shouldn't be shooting 3's in any other situation though considering how far he drops. That's just my opinion. He's a beast that should be spending the majority of his time bodying people but yeah, use him as a trailer for those 3's every now and then.

  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    They could literally rest Durant and Curry half the season and the warriors could still get close to 60 wins ... Iíve never seen another team like this in any sports history
    Well, OKC, Lakers, Heat and even the Celtics were pretty stacked in retrospect. OKC is self explanatory (3 future MVPs +Ibaka). Heat not only had the top players in their primes at the SG, SF and PF/C position (arguably) but the top players in the league. Plus they had Ray Allen and Shane Battier. Lakers had Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Odom and Ariza. Celtics in a similar vein had top guys like Allen, KG, PP, Rondo but also the best perimeter defender in the league in Tony Allen.

    GSW only have the PG/SF positions locked down. Cousins is still a question mark. Klay is a great fit but I don't think anyone has him slotted as one of the best players at the SG position let alone the NBA.

    I think what makes the Warriors seem better than they are is that everything just clicks together so well. Most players have to sacrifice their game in order to fit on a super team because they have redundant playstyles or they operate in the same areas. For example, Wade and Lebron were both elite drivers and generated most of their points from driving to the basket. But the Warriors don't really need to sacrifice because their playstyles complement each other so well. Replace Klay with another top player, say Giannis or Harden, and suddenly their offence doesn't work so well anymore.

  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    How was Davis tied for 6th in MPG if this minutes restriction was so detrimental to him? He played under 30 minutes in a game 7 times this year. So yeah, he may of had a minutes restriction for a game here or there but it's not like it was something that lasted for multiple games at a time. If you're really going to nit pick the odd game here or there then fine, you can have it. When you mentioned minutes restriction I thought you were talking for a week or two at a time.

    I've always liked Jrue's game. Yeah he's not good at making entry passes but he has a plethora of moves to beat people and if the help doesn't converge, he'll beat most defenders. When they do converge, he kicks out. He's always had a knack for finding the open man but yeah, with two bigs like Boogie and Davis it'll be tougher for him to operate. That's why I said Rondo is the better option for PG on the team. To say Jrue isn't a true PG is foolish though.

    I'm shocked about the Gentry quotes. He gets paid to do what he does but I just flat out disagree. If Cousins is shooting 46% from the top of the 3pt line that's great and I'll admit I was wrong in that aspect. He drops to 35% on the year though while taking 6 attempts a game. By all means, if his numbers are that impressive from the top as a trailer then keep it up. He shouldn't be shooting 3's in any other situation though considering how far he drops. That's just my opinion. He's a beast that should be spending the majority of his time bodying people but yeah, use him as a trailer for those 3's every now and then.
    Him being at the 3 point line isn't just about shooting 3s. Being at the top of the 3 point line opens up his ability to drive to the basket or create for others who are cutting to the basket. Cousins is a good shooter (42% when wide open from 3) so big men defenders have to respect him and close out, which will help him when he beats guys off the dribble. He'll take more shots from 3 (sometimes bad shots) but it helps create other situations for the team. It's one of those things coaches constantly have to live with. It's not like we're talking about Ibaka here who can't do anything except shoot 3s when he's camped at the 3 point line (can't make a pass inside, swing the ball, drive, etc).

    It's like how Demar is frustrating to watch taking long 2s but it helps him beat defenders to the basket as they have to respect that shot. When Demar camps out at the 3 point line, defenders won't respect him and sag off so it's easier to recover on defense. He has to take those 2s sometimes to make defenders second guess themselves and while it sucks, something you live with sometimes.
    Last edited by Raps08-09 Champ; 07-04-2018 at 03:58 PM.

  6. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    How was Davis tied for 6th in MPG if this minutes restriction was so detrimental to him? He played under 30 minutes in a game 7 times this year. So yeah, he may of had a minutes restriction for a game here or there but it's not like it was something that lasted for multiple games at a time. If you're really going to nit pick the odd game here or there then fine, you can have it. When you mentioned minutes restriction I thought you were talking for a week or two at a time.
    To refresh, this tangent came about because I was arguing that Mirotic's record was a result of them finally being healthy. To which you disagreed. "Nitpicking" the odd game here or there (also the games Davis was out) or mentioning Rondo's injury matters a lot when their win%s are separated by a measly 10%. To show how slim this is, for each game Cousins could have won, that separation decreases by 2%. If they had a similar record, would this talking point even come up?

    While I do think Davis and NOP found their identity when Boogie went down, I also think context matters a lot when looking at those numbers. Cousins could have easily had a similar win% if they started the season healthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    I've always liked Jrue's game. Yeah he's not good at making entry passes but he has a plethora of moves to beat people and if the help doesn't converge, he'll beat most defenders. When they do converge, he kicks out. He's always had a knack for finding the open man but yeah, with two bigs like Boogie and Davis it'll be tougher for him to operate. That's why I said Rondo is the better option for PG on the team. To say Jrue isn't a true PG is foolish though.
    Jrue isn't a true PG (not that it actually matters anymore in this league). He has never really been the primary playmaker on any of his teams. On Philly it was Iggy. Then in NOP, it was Evans/Rondo. Now they're signing another primary ball handler in Payton. He has been through 4 coaches, and none of them trust him to run the offense. This doesn't mean he's a bad player or completely inept at passing. It just means he's better at other things and should focus his abilities there. He's basically a shooting guard/combo guard but that's besides the point.

    The argument was regarding their system and who was capable of running it. Remember, this wasn't about Jrue being a "true pg" or not. It was you calling bs on Gentry relying on Boogie as a playmaker. It doesn't matter if you think Jrue is capable. From the previous quote, it's obvious Alvin Gentry doesn't. The fact is that they wanted to run a certain system and Jrue couldn't do it. So Jrue didn't "fill in just fine" nor was he the second most important player on that team. You pretty much admitted as much. They needed Rondo and when they didn't have Rondo (whether injured or on the bench), Gentry had to improvise, and made the bigs the playmakers.

    Don't get me wrong, Jrue played great defence and provided important off ball offence, but this whole thing falls apart if you can't get the ball to Cousins or Davis. Gentry realized this last season when Jrue struggled to make basic entry passes to either one of them. They wouldn't have hired Finch otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    I'm shocked about the Gentry quotes. He gets paid to do what he does but I just flat out disagree. If Cousins is shooting 46% from the top of the 3pt line that's great and I'll admit I was wrong in that aspect. He drops to 35% on the year though while taking 6 attempts a game. By all means, if his numbers are that impressive from the top as a trailer then keep it up. He shouldn't be shooting 3's in any other situation though considering how far he drops. That's just my opinion. He's a beast that should be spending the majority of his time bodying people but yeah, use him as a trailer for those 3's every now and then.
    If Cousins parks in the paint, Davis, Holiday and their other players can't cut to the rim. Pelicans aren't a very good perimeter shooting team but they do have players that score efficiently on cuts. Cousins also poses a matchup problem, when he plays on the perimeter, allowing them to maximize his versatility. Teams usually have one mobile big at their disposal and they're putting him on Davis. This means they have a slow big or a smaller guy chasing Cousins at the 3. It's not great but it was the best compromise given their personnel constraints. Like MDA said, twin towers don't work in this era unless they can shoot.
    Last edited by ecart; 07-04-2018 at 05:44 PM.

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Barcelona but soccer is a different breed.
    Yeah for sure... there are teams that can match up with Barcelona though. The warriors literally have a starting 5 of Team USA players and I think thatís just ridiculous... does anyone even watch the finals anymore ? I know I didnít this year and probably wonít next year.

    This canít be good for the league but the Warriors arenít breaking any rules. All the power to them.

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    Well, OKC, Lakers, Heat and even the Celtics were pretty stacked in retrospect. OKC is self explanatory (3 future MVPs +Ibaka). Heat not only had the top players in their primes at the SG, SF and PF/C position (arguably) but the top players in the league. Plus they had Ray Allen and Shane Battier. Lakers had Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Odom and Ariza. Celtics in a similar vein had top guys like Allen, KG, PP, Rondo but also the best perimeter defender in the league in Tony Allen.

    GSW only have the PG/SF positions locked down. Cousins is still a question mark. Klay is a great fit but I don't think anyone has him slotted as one of the best players at the SG position let alone the NBA.

    I think what makes the Warriors seem better than they are is that everything just clicks together so well. Most players have to sacrifice their game in order to fit on a super team because they have redundant playstyles or they operate in the same areas. For example, Wade and Lebron were both elite drivers and generated most of their points from driving to the basket. But the Warriors don't really need to sacrifice because their playstyles complement each other so well. Replace Klay with another top player, say Giannis or Harden, and suddenly their offence doesn't work so well anymore.

    Seriously? You don't think they have SG or PF "locked down"?

    Klay is definitely among the best 2 way SG's in the league. He was voted to the 3rd All-NBA team two years in a row in 2014-15 and 2015-16 before they got KD. He is one of the best outside shooters from that position and he was the second leading scorer on a team that went 73-9!!

    As much as I hate him, Draymond is a great PF. He isn't the greatest scorer, but his ability to defend and distribute is second to none in the NBA from that position (imo) and perfect on a team that knows how to score like Golden State. Make no mistake, he is a HUGE part of that team.

    If Cousins gets healthy and resigns, they can go further into the tax because they will then have his Bird rights. Pretty soon they will have an all-star at every position, with former all-stars coming off the bench. Basketball fans can only hope KD decides to leave and lead his own team after this season.

  9. #789
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    NBA needs to incentivise being the man on your own team. The league would be best served if the most amount of max guys you could afford was 2.

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    NBA needs to incentivise being the man on your own team. The league would be best served if the most amount of max guys you could afford was 2.
    I've gotten the feeling this is the last kick at the can for GSW, then they will split it up. Cousins will get his ring, re-establish his value and move on. Durant, gonna get another one, then move to New York it sounds like. Thompson gonna take $40m per to go somewhere else too. At least, this is what I'm hoping will happen. Then none of these guys need to ring chase later.

    It's smart when you think about it. Chase the rings during your prime, then go make money and play where the lifestyle suits you. Instead of trying to chase rings when you get barely get by.

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Seriously? You don't think they have SG or PF "locked down"?

    Klay is definitely among the best 2 way SG's in the league. He was voted to the 3rd All-NBA team two years in a row in 2014-15 and 2015-16 before they got KD. He is one of the best outside shooters from that position and he was the second leading scorer on a team that went 73-9!!

    As much as I hate him, Draymond is a great PF. He isn't the greatest scorer, but his ability to defend and distribute is second to none in the NBA from that position (imo) and perfect on a team that knows how to score like Golden State. Make no mistake, he is a HUGE part of that team.

    If Cousins gets healthy and resigns, they can go further into the tax because they will then have his Bird rights. Pretty soon they will have an all-star at every position, with former all-stars coming off the bench. Basketball fans can only hope KD decides to leave and lead his own team after this season.
    Nah what I meant by "locked down" was that compared to the Heat (and other super teams), neither Klay or Green are considered one of the best at their position. They're not as talented as some of the other super teams but because their team complements one another so nicely, their strengths are amplified and their contributions are more valuable. Wade had one of the highest peaks of any shooting guard, but his game was an awkward fit with Lebron. Both players had to sacrifice and change their game in order to make the fit work.
    Last edited by ecart; 07-05-2018 at 01:27 PM.

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    NBA needs to incentivise being the man on your own team. The league would be best served if the most amount of max guys you could afford was 2.

    Blame the NBA players union for being greedy. The NBA warned them that this was going to happen. With smoothing, Warriors can't add KD and DC for the MLE. But CP3 runs the union and his free agency was coming up. He also increased the age limits for max contracts too. They screwed over a ton of NBA players so they could get theirs.

  13. #793
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    Delon Wright on Casey vs. Nurse: "He's more of a no-tolerance type of coach. He wants it his way, and it's a good thing. Coach Casey was a different style of coaching. I think they're both effective."
    https://twitter.com/william_lou/stat...93360887697413

    Interesting. General perception from casual fans was that Casey carried the whip and Nurse was going to be a pushover like Triano. Kind of explains why our identity has been so bipolar.

    Makes sense. Xs and Os coaches tend to be more anal retentive and OCD.

  14. #794
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    i have no problem with player movement. maybe teams should try to win and not tank.


  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart:32441539
    Delon Wright on Casey vs. Nurse: "He's more of a no-tolerance type of coach. He wants it his way, and it's a good thing. Coach Casey was a different style of coaching. I think they're both effective."
    https://twitter.com/william_lou/stat...93360887697413

    Interesting. General perception from casual fans was that Casey carried the whip and Nurse was going to be a pushover like Triano. Kind of explains why our identity has been so bipolar.

    Makes sense. Xs and Os coaches tend to be more anal retentive and OCD.
    Not surprised by that quote. For years we have heard DeMar say that they are given freedom on offense.
    ďItís about winning,Ē Stoudemire said. ďYou win, youíre going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won ó Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you donít win, nobody really wants to see you.Ē

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