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  1. #1
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    The 2018 Off-Season Thread

    Well, that's a wrap for the 2017-18 Flyers Season.

    There were some major positives:
    • Bounce-Back Seasons from Giroux, Ghost & Vorcek
    • Emergence of Couturier as a Legit 1C
    • Provorov Emerges as an Elite Defenseman
    • Patrick, Konecny, Lindblom Are As Good As Advertised
    • Lindblom Made It!
    • Elliott Can Still Play!


    And some glaring holes:
    • Hakstol & the Coaching Staff
    • Flip is Toast
    • We still played AMac, Gudas & Manning way too much
    • Weise, Lehtera on the Roster
    • Simmonds with a down, injury-plagued season
    • Lack of C & D Depth (at present)
    • Playoff Goaltending is Still Bad
    • PK is awful. Awful. Awful.


    But -- on the whole -- the positives outweigh the negatives. We are one good off-season away from legitimately competing for a Cup.

    Some things for discussion:
    • NHL Draft - We Hold 2 Picks
    • Wayne Simmonds: Should He Stay or Should He Go?
    • Coaching Staff Overhaul?
    • Free Agents? Tavares to Philly?
    • Will Hextall Make a Big Trade?
    • Youth Movement - What Kids Make The Roster?


    Let's get this started!

  2. #2
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    - If the flyers hang on to both picks, I expect a BPA mentality.

    - I'd like to see simmer moved for the best offer. I don't think the team should even consider the extention, and I don't like the idea of letting a player of his caliber walk for nothing.

    - Ideally the entire staff is replaced, but hopefully at a minimum lappy is gone.

    - The more I think about Tavares the less I'm interested in his likely price tag.

    - Hopefully Simmonds is moved for a haul. I'd also, and this will be unpopular, dangle Jake and see what could be done. You'd have to get a major coup for me to be interested in moving him, but the only untouchables here should be 9, 53, 14, 11, 19 and 28.

    - Depends what else happens. I think Frost, Vorobyev, NAK, Vecchione, Morin and Myers will all be given a legitimate chance.

    -I think the goalie situation is also interesting. Unlikely to have room for all 4 of Neuvy, Elliot, Lyon, and Stolarz. Hart is a lock to be a pro, so something has to give here as well.

  3. #3
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    1: the biggest problem with hakstol isn't his lineup decisions or his minutes distribution or his system. it's that he runs goalies into the ground every damn year.

    he's gotta go before he has a chance to maim carter hart.


    2: sure, filppula and read are gone, but we're still paying weise, lehtera, macdonald and neuvirth a ton of money to drag down the lineup.


    3: i'd hold onto simmonds through the draft unless there's a pretty great offer, but then i'd look to move him after the first wave of free agency settles. our pipeline is already stocked and we have a lot of picks this year. waiting until free agency to trade simmonds allows us to take advantage of a desperate GM after he strikes out, and there's a good chance a future pick turns into a top 10 pick.


    4: i'd trade voracek at the draft. he's good, but he's overpaid and it screws up our salary structure. his stock should be high after a bounceback year, and with the lack of high end wings on the FA market this year, we should get an absolute haul for him. a top 10 pick, a young top 6 forward (or forward prospect) and either a good middle 6 forward or a good bottom 4 defenseman to even out the salaries. something like the 7th overall pick, alex debrincat and connor murphy.


    5: this offseason cannot be about trying to contend next year.

    we need to close the giroux/voracek/simmonds window and focus on couturier/ghost/provorov/konecny/patrick/sanheim etc. we have a young core and we have a ton of prospects coming up behind them so the worst thing we can do is lard up the cap with a bunch of long term contracts for soon to be 30 year olds.

  4. #4
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    Simmonds would get traded. I'd see what people would give for Jake (If traded who would play RW on 2nd line). Let Filpulla, Read, Oduya, Mrazck, Manning (I think they will resign him) walk. Resign Leier and Hagg. At least Lappy should go. See what offers are out there for Gudas. As much as we all want, MacDonald won't be going anywhere unless Hexy can pull off a Vinny type trade.

    G Couts TK
    Lindblom Patrick Jake

    Let the rest fight it out for the bottom to lines.

    Raffl, Weal, Laughton, Leier, Carey, NAK, Martel, Vechione, Varone, Frost

    Provy, Ghost, Sanheim each paired with MacDonald, Myers, Hagg, Morin, Manning

    I'd pull Lyons up for next year and decide who you want Elliot or Neuvy. Or can Sandstrom make the team out of camp. Hart should be in a AHL.
    Last edited by lbz88; 04-23-2018 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Forgot Lindblom

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    1: the biggest problem with hakstol isn't his lineup decisions or his minutes distribution or his system. it's that he runs goalies into the ground every damn year.

    he's gotta go before he has a chance to maim carter hart.


    2: sure, filppula and read are gone, but we're still paying weise, lehtera, macdonald and neuvirth a ton of money to drag down the lineup.


    3: i'd hold onto simmonds through the draft unless there's a pretty great offer, but then i'd look to move him after the first wave of free agency settles. our pipeline is already stocked and we have a lot of picks this year. waiting until free agency to trade simmonds allows us to take advantage of a desperate GM after he strikes out, and there's a good chance a future pick turns into a top 10 pick.


    4: i'd trade voracek at the draft. he's good, but he's overpaid and it screws up our salary structure. his stock should be high after a bounceback year, and with the lack of high end wings on the FA market this year, we should get an absolute haul for him. a top 10 pick, a young top 6 forward (or forward prospect) and either a good middle 6 forward or a good bottom 4 defenseman to even out the salaries. something like the 7th overall pick, alex debrincat and connor murphy.


    5: this offseason cannot be about trying to contend next year.

    we need to close the giroux/voracek/simmonds window and focus on couturier/ghost/provorov/konecny/patrick/sanheim etc. we have a young core and we have a ton of prospects coming up behind them so the worst thing we can do is lard up the cap with a bunch of long term contracts for soon to be 30 year olds.
    Welcome back buddy

  6. #6
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    I think if if the coaching staff is going to change it'll be Lappy and Gord Murphy....our two biggest problems in this series....PK and Defense....The defense was was caught way too often over pursuing the puck in their own end....and the clearing attempts....pathetic at best....

    Players that they'll need to move on from.....Simmonds (if a good offer is there), Weise & Lehtera (these two will probably be the toughest to move outright)....Manning and Gudas (that pair alone gave up 3 goals yesterday)....I think Mrazek is gone.....we'll have Neuvy and Elliot for one more season (allowing Hart one season in the AHL).....I agree I would dangle Voracek out there (disappears at playoff time, and just played dumb hockey this series)...

    Hextall has some work to do.....Hak should be on a very short leash next year.....Improvements have to be made in all areas of their game....

    After next season Hextall only has 8 contracts on the books (Giroux, Voracek, Couturier, Weise, Nolan, MacDonald, Ghost, Gudas)....yes, players will be brought back and resigned (Provy, Konecny, Laughton)....so Hexy will have plenty of cash to dole out on FA's. He'll have almost $17 million this offseason.

    Hextall has to use the "assets" he's collected to improve this team starting next year
    Last edited by SportsNutMike; 04-23-2018 at 03:55 PM.

  7. #7
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    As far as moving Simmonds or Jake, I'd take a page out of the Eagles book. Let other teams come to us asking.
    Without a major trade, I don't really see us being too active on the Free Agent front. On D, Oduya and Manning are out, and should be replaced by Morin. On Offense, Flip and Read are gone, I would put Vecchione and Lindblom in their spots at the moment. In Goal, I see Neuvi as the odd man out. (And I think that was always the plan. I think the 2nd year was only added to get him to sign to be exposed) I think Elliott and Lyon are the NHL Goalies at this point, and Stolie and Hart being the AHL Goalies (And Muse and/Tokarski in the ECHL on AHL deals for call ups/injuries depending on the offers they get)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsNutMike View Post
    I think if if the coaching staff is going to change it'll be Lappy and Gord Murphy....our two biggest problems in this series....PK and Defense....The defense was was caught way too often over pursuing the puck in their own end....and the clearing attempts....pathetic at best....

    Players that they'll need to move on from.....Simmonds (if a good offer is there), Weise & Lehtera (these two will probably be the toughest to move outright)....Manning and Gudas (that pair alone gave up 3 goals yesterday)....I think Mrazek is gone.....we'll have Neuvy and Elliot for one more season (allowing Hart one season in the AHL).....I agree I would dangle Voracek out there (disappears at playoff time, and just played dumb hockey this series)...

    Hextall has some work to do.....Hak should be on a very short leash next year.....Improvements have to be made in all areas of their game....

    After next season Hextall only has 8 contracts on the books (Giroux, Voracek, Couturier, Weise, Nolan, MacDonald, Ghost, Gudas)....yes, players will be brought back and resigned (Provy, Konecny, Laughton)....so Hexy will have plenty of cash to dole out on FA's. He'll have almost $17 million this offseason.

    Hextall has to use the "assets" he's collected to improve this team starting next year
    If they fire both Lappy and Murphy they may as well clean house. They should clean house anyway. It's an exercise in delaying the inevitable.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    1: the biggest problem with hakstol isn't his lineup decisions or his minutes distribution or his system. it's that he runs goalies into the ground every damn year.

    he's gotta go before he has a chance to maim carter hart.


    2: sure, filppula and read are gone, but we're still paying weise, lehtera, macdonald and neuvirth a ton of money to drag down the lineup.


    3: i'd hold onto simmonds through the draft unless there's a pretty great offer, but then i'd look to move him after the first wave of free agency settles. our pipeline is already stocked and we have a lot of picks this year. waiting until free agency to trade simmonds allows us to take advantage of a desperate GM after he strikes out, and there's a good chance a future pick turns into a top 10 pick.


    4: i'd trade voracek at the draft. he's good, but he's overpaid and it screws up our salary structure. his stock should be high after a bounceback year, and with the lack of high end wings on the FA market this year, we should get an absolute haul for him. a top 10 pick, a young top 6 forward (or forward prospect) and either a good middle 6 forward or a good bottom 4 defenseman to even out the salaries. something like the 7th overall pick, alex debrincat and connor murphy.


    5: this offseason cannot be about trying to contend next year.

    we need to close the giroux/voracek/simmonds window and focus on couturier/ghost/provorov/konecny/patrick/sanheim etc. we have a young core and we have a ton of prospects coming up behind them so the worst thing we can do is lard up the cap with a bunch of long term contracts for soon to be 30 year olds.
    Honestly, I might switch Simmer & Voracek -- Simmonds can be moved at the draft. I'm sure he's going to be on the "post-season surgery" list whenever it's unveiled, and he's a "hockey guy's guy" -- there's a market there.

    I have no doubt that the Flyers will get multiple offers that are (a) better than Nash but (b) less than Duchene. As a reminder, the 33-year-old Nash commanded a 2018 First, Young Middle-6 Player (Spooner), salary equalizer (Belesky) and a B-caliber prospect (Lindgren).

    Duchene commanded: Andrew Hammond (G - Salary Dump), 2018 First & Second Round Picks (Ottawa & NSH, respectively); 2019 Third-Round pick (Ottawa), Shane Bowers (2017 1st Round Selection - Ottawa), Vlad Kamenev (2014 2nd Round Selection - Nashville) & Samuel Girard (2016 2nd Round Selection - Nashville).

    So -- basically a pair of firsts (Bowers + one lottery pick), an A-caliber prospect (Girard), a B-caliber prospect (Kamenev), a pair of middle-round draft picks (2nd & 3rd) and a cap dump.

    For Simmonds, I'd be looking at: 2018 & 2019 first rounders, plus a B-caliber prospect or middle-6 roster player. Based on those two trades, that seems about fair. Alternatively, a young, top-4 defenseman under contract (like Dougie Hamilton).

    Voracek could be appealing to a team who strikes out on Tavares in FA (or, even better, if we grab Tavares in FA) -- but I'd agree with most that he'd likely bring back a Duchene-level package. While he is a winger, the fact is that he's one of the 10 best RWs in hockey. We may be upset with him about his production in the playoffs, but let's not forget that he's a PPG player who can create offense in a variety of ways (even if he's not particularly adept at actually shooting the damn puck). If we move Voracek, that's 84 points of production that need to be replaced. Not saying I'm opposed.

    For instance, if we sign Tavares (let's all be real: that's going to cost 7/$77M), does it make sense to move Voracek's $8.25M (so we're netting up $2.75M for JT)? Maybe. It makes even more sense if we can move him to a team like VGK (who would LOVE a star like Voracek) and receive a nice package of young, cost-controlled players back to boost our bottom-6. The thought there is that JT's production matches Voracek's, so that's a wash. The incremental improvement provided by the bounty received from trading Voracek more than off-sets the additional $2.75M going to Tavares, so we net out ahead for less money. I'm intrigued by that. VGK clearly has the cap space to make such a move, and they've shown that they are willing to part with assets in the right deal.

    For example, I could see a package of: 2018 First Round Pick, Alex Tuch & Nick Suzuki being attractive for Voracek. Again, you've got to pay to get him, but that could be something that VGK is willing to do.

    Put all of those assets together, and you might be able to make one hell of a move -- as in, jumping from #14, #18 & #2X (VGK pick) to #1 or #2.

    If you turn Voracek into Suzuki, Tuch & Svechnikov/Dahlin/Zadina, that's a hell of a thing.

    While this is a MASSIVE pipe dream, you could run out:

    Giroux - Tavares - Konecny
    Svechnikov/Zadina - Couturier - Tuch
    Lindblom - Patrick - Suzuki/Frost
    Raffl - Laughton - Voroboyev/Lehtera

    Provorov - Hamilton (Simmonds trade)
    Sanheim - Ghost
    Morin/Hagg - Myers
    AMac

    That's a hell of a lineup.

    Hell, if WSH gets bounced by PIT again, you could just package up Elliott & Suzuki/Frost to get Holtby

    Then run:

    Holtby
    Hart

    It's obviously not feasible to overhaul roughly 50% of the roster, but damn it would be fun.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    1: the biggest problem with hakstol isn't his lineup decisions or his minutes distribution or his system. it's that he runs goalies into the ground every damn year.

    he's gotta go before he has a chance to maim carter hart.
    actually he has terrible minute distribution + lineup decisions. Those are his worst attributes, that and his unwillingness to trust his young players in key roles (sanheim) because he values players with veteran precense.

  11. #11
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    I've got to agree with this -- I don't mind riding the "hot hand" with goalies (even if he's 33) as much as I mind giving Brandon Manning & Andrew MacDonald more minutes than Travis Sanheim.

    The fact that the players who are producing solid underlying numbers and objectively good outcomes on the ice (Sanheim, Laughton, Lindblom, Konecny, etc.) are benched repeatedly while "veterans" who are negatively impacting the team's overall performance (AMac, Manning, Flip, Weise, (and to a lesser extent) Lehtera & Read) are given MORE minutes/responsibility is shameful. It's bad coaching.

  12. #12
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    read should have been playing instead of weise all year the way he played for us down the stretch/into the playoffs. Weise was useless all year long. Read actually killed some pks.

    But hak refuses to give the young guys key minutes and he rarely makes changes during a game. I don't recall him making a timeout whenever we were starting bad/down a couple to give the boys a good wakeup call. Hak is so stubborn its annoying. However, we shall see how he does when he doesn't have pylons in the lineup..hopefully he does better

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    read should have been playing instead of weise all year the way he played for us down the stretch/into the playoffs. Weise was useless all year long. Read actually killed some pks.

    But hak refuses to give the young guys key minutes and he rarely makes changes during a game. I don't recall him making a timeout whenever we were starting bad/down a couple to give the boys a good wakeup call. Hak is so stubborn its annoying. However, we shall see how he does when he doesn't have pylons in the lineup..hopefully he does better
    What evidence do you have for him being better without pylons in the lineup? This is the guy that has actually gone out of his way to put more pylons in the game and bench the players with actual skill.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Honestly, I might switch Simmer & Voracek -- Simmonds can be moved at the draft. I'm sure he's going to be on the "post-season surgery" list whenever it's unveiled, and he's a "hockey guy's guy" -- there's a market there.

    I have no doubt that the Flyers will get multiple offers that are (a) better than Nash but (b) less than Duchene. As a reminder, the 33-year-old Nash commanded a 2018 First, Young Middle-6 Player (Spooner), salary equalizer (Belesky) and a B-caliber prospect (Lindgren).

    Duchene commanded: Andrew Hammond (G - Salary Dump), 2018 First & Second Round Picks (Ottawa & NSH, respectively); 2019 Third-Round pick (Ottawa), Shane Bowers (2017 1st Round Selection - Ottawa), Vlad Kamenev (2014 2nd Round Selection - Nashville) & Samuel Girard (2016 2nd Round Selection - Nashville).

    So -- basically a pair of firsts (Bowers + one lottery pick), an A-caliber prospect (Girard), a B-caliber prospect (Kamenev), a pair of middle-round draft picks (2nd & 3rd) and a cap dump.

    For Simmonds, I'd be looking at: 2018 & 2019 first rounders, plus a B-caliber prospect or middle-6 roster player. Based on those two trades, that seems about fair. Alternatively, a young, top-4 defenseman under contract (like Dougie Hamilton).

    Voracek could be appealing to a team who strikes out on Tavares in FA (or, even better, if we grab Tavares in FA) -- but I'd agree with most that he'd likely bring back a Duchene-level package. While he is a winger, the fact is that he's one of the 10 best RWs in hockey. We may be upset with him about his production in the playoffs, but let's not forget that he's a PPG player who can create offense in a variety of ways (even if he's not particularly adept at actually shooting the damn puck). If we move Voracek, that's 84 points of production that need to be replaced. Not saying I'm opposed.

    For instance, if we sign Tavares (let's all be real: that's going to cost 7/$77M), does it make sense to move Voracek's $8.25M (so we're netting up $2.75M for JT)? Maybe. It makes even more sense if we can move him to a team like VGK (who would LOVE a star like Voracek) and receive a nice package of young, cost-controlled players back to boost our bottom-6. The thought there is that JT's production matches Voracek's, so that's a wash. The incremental improvement provided by the bounty received from trading Voracek more than off-sets the additional $2.75M going to Tavares, so we net out ahead for less money. I'm intrigued by that. VGK clearly has the cap space to make such a move, and they've shown that they are willing to part with assets in the right deal.

    For example, I could see a package of: 2018 First Round Pick, Alex Tuch & Nick Suzuki being attractive for Voracek. Again, you've got to pay to get him, but that could be something that VGK is willing to do.

    Put all of those assets together, and you might be able to make one hell of a move -- as in, jumping from #14, #18 & #2X (VGK pick) to #1 or #2.

    If you turn Voracek into Suzuki, Tuch & Svechnikov/Dahlin/Zadina, that's a hell of a thing.

    While this is a MASSIVE pipe dream, you could run out:

    Giroux - Tavares - Konecny
    Svechnikov/Zadina - Couturier - Tuch
    Lindblom - Patrick - Suzuki/Frost
    Raffl - Laughton - Voroboyev/Lehtera

    Provorov - Hamilton (Simmonds trade)
    Sanheim - Ghost
    Morin/Hagg - Myers
    AMac

    That's a hell of a lineup.

    Hell, if WSH gets bounced by PIT again, you could just package up Elliott & Suzuki/Frost to get Holtby

    Then run:

    Holtby
    Hart

    It's obviously not feasible to overhaul roughly 50% of the roster, but damn it would be fun.
    Or you could just offer sheet Grubauer and snatch him from a division rival with cap issues. They can't afford to pay 2 starting goalies. I'm not much for pipe dreams, but this is something the Flyers could realistically do and secure our goaltending for now and the long term. Means the Flyers wouldn't have to rush Hart and goaltending is secure in theory for the next decade.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    Or you could just offer sheet Grubauer and snatch him from a division rival with cap issues. They can't afford to pay 2 starting goalies. I'm not much for pipe dreams, but this is something the Flyers could realistically do and secure our goaltending for now and the long term. Means the Flyers wouldn't have to rush Hart and goaltending is secure in theory for the next decade.
    So, I like this idea. I'm also willing to drop the compensation pick on gruby as well. The question I have is simple;

    What happens to everyone else then?
    Stolarz
    Lyon
    Neuvirth
    Elliot

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