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  1. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    College stats

    Code:
    Josh Allen:   365/649 pass.att. (56.2%), 5066 yards  (7.8), 44 TD, 21 Int, 237 rush.att.,  767 yards, 12 TD
    Carson Wentz: 392/612 pass.att. (64.1%), 5115 yards  (8.4), 45 TD, 14 Int, 216 rush.att., 1028 yards, 13 TD
    Cam Newton:   191/292 pass.att. (65.4%), 2908 yards (10.0), 30 TD,  7 Int, 285 rush.att., 1586 yards, 20 TD
    Allen is worse in every regard; much worse in completion percentage and interception rate.
    True that. I don't watch college anything.

    I think most of all the Bills wanted a bigger, taller QB. Especially in light of the "fragile" concerns about Rosen.

    I would have let AJ have this year and drafted a guy with a likely higher pick next year if I was calling the shots.


    Edit: saw mentioned elsewhere that Allen's college stats are similar to Drew Bledsoe's college stats. Similar physical attributes as well.
    Last edited by Bullseyed; 04-30-2018 at 11:34 AM.
    First 4 years:
    Brown - 54 GP, 27 GS, 261 catches (63.3%) for 3,561 yds (8.6 AVG), 15 TD
    Landry - 64 GP, 57 GS, 400 catches (70.2%) for 4,038 yds (10.1 AVG), 22 TD

    Huh. Wonder why Landry is getting paid so much...

    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  2. #587
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    I understand that Eli Manning has never been a superstar or All Pro QB and if it wasn't for the Super Bowl and playoffs runs he would be rated much lower... But before last year he was a constant for 4000+ yards and this is without having a good RB in a very long time. Yes he had to throw more but everyone knew we were gonna throw and he also always had 3rd and long distance too. To add on to that, he also had a very bad offensive line for the past few years also and still managed to get 4000+ yards.

    I don't think he's done. Last year he had no receivers after the injuries and a completely depleted roster. A lot of people are giving up on him and I think he will come back and have a great year. Possibly Comeback Player of the Year.

  3. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    That trade was pretty unique and more like a gift by Belichick. If Brady wasn't playing MVP-level football, the trade likely doesn't happen. If Barkley turns out what he's promised to be (Hernandez as well), you likely won't draft in the Top 5 again that soon. It's also rare to trade up that high for a legit franchise caliber QB prospect because it only happens when the team trading down doesn't want that QB. This conundrum is the reason why so many people were critical of the Giants not drafting a QB.
    Teams trade up for QB's all the time. Literally happens like every year.

    You don't pass on a sure fire stud like Barkley. He's just too much of a sure thing. Guy is a stud.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  4. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    I understand that Eli Manning has never been a superstar or All Pro QB and if it wasn't for the Super Bowl and playoffs runs he would be rated much lower... But before last year he was a constant for 4000+ yards and this is without having a good RB in a very long time. Yes he had to throw more but everyone knew we were gonna throw and he also always had 3rd and long distance too. To add on to that, he also had a very bad offensive line for the past few years also and still managed to get 4000+ yards.

    I don't think he's done. Last year he had no receivers after the injuries and a completely depleted roster. A lot of people are giving up on him and I think he will come back and have a great year. Possibly Comeback Player of the Year.
    Just need him to be decent. Barkley will featured now and the offense will be one with balance. Eli doesn't need to shoulder the load anymore. He just needs to run the offense and be efficient. I believe this is something he is still capable of. Only time will tell.

    Last season was a throw away season. The entire team was injured and Eli had no help whatsoever. Throw 2017 in the trash can and move on. We have Barkley now. We have Solder instead of Flowers at LT now. And we have Odell returning. It's a new offense in 2018.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  5. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    Teams trade up for QB's all the time. Literally happens like every year.

    You don't pass on a sure fire stud like Barkley. He's just too much of a sure thing. Guy is a stud.
    If Barkley was a QB, then by that same logic no team would be able to trade up for him.

  6. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    Just need him to be decent. Barkley will featured now and the offense will be one with balance. Eli doesn't need to shoulder the load anymore. He just needs to run the offense and be efficient. I believe this is something he is still capable of. Only time will tell.

    Last season was a throw away season. The entire team was injured and Eli had no help whatsoever. Throw 2017 in the trash can and move on. We have Barkley now. We have Solder instead of Flowers at LT now. And we have Odell returning. It's a new offense in 2018.
    I know people here might be giving the Giants hell about not taking a QB but I don’t blame them at all. Darnold is a turnover machine, Rosen is a dick, and Allen is Paxton Lynch 2.0. I wouldn’t want to hand my franchise over to any of them. I’d much rather have a potential generational talent. Then they solidified their OL. With that defense and power running game they are going to be extremely dangerous in the NFC (not just NFC East). By the time Eli is likely ready to retire they will have groomed Davis Webb for 3-4 years. Even if he’s just a stop gap they’re in really good shape. Just keep adding to that OL. Even as a Cowboys fan I would not be surprised if they won the NFC East. For me coaching is he biggest question mark for them.

  7. #592
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    I really hope that Darnold succeeds, I wish the best for Allen, and I think Rosen is gonna be a very good QB. Heck, I honestly think that Mayfield is gonna be a stud. But with all that said, if Barkley turns out to be the next Elliot, Peterson, etc. and they all succeed in 5 years. I still make this pick 10 out of 10 times.

    Unless any of them becomes a Brees, Rodgers, Brady, etc. then you are talking about a good QB but not one who will singularly carry you to the Super Bowl and I honestly don't think any of them is that. But the thing is, they don't need to be that either. Heck Eli Manning isn't that. Dak Prescott IMO isn't that. Carson Wentz I think can be that but I don't think either of them is that. I personally don't even think Russell Wilson is that.

    What they are... Are really good QB who need a little bit extra to get them there. And that extra is someone like Elliot, like Gurley, like Bell, like Lynch and hopefully like Barkley.

  8. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    With that defense and power running game they are going to be extremely dangerous in the NFC (not just NFC East).
    Do you really believe that?

    They've hardly changed the defense from a personnel perspective; in fact they've lost 3 decent players (JPP, DRC, Kennard) and had one notable addition in Ogletree. They are changing schemes though.

    As for the OL, they've added Solder who's is now the highest paid OT in the NFL but the 5th best OT in the NFC East. They drafted a guard in the 2nd round, who even though I liked him as a prospect, is still a rookie and not from a Power Five conference. They've also let solid players in Richburg and Pugh leave as free agents.

  9. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    If Barkley was a QB, then by that same logic no team would be able to trade up for him.
    IDK what this has to do with anything. I'm talking about a prospect like Darnold, Allen, Rosen, etc.

    Obviously if a generational QB prospect was available at #2, Giants would have taken him.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    Do you really believe that?

    They've hardly changed the defense from a personnel perspective; in fact they've lost 3 decent players (JPP, DRC, Kennard) and had one notable addition in Ogletree. They are changing schemes though.

    As for the OL, they've added Solder who's is now the highest paid OT in the NFL but the 5th best OT in the NFC East. They drafted a guard in the 2nd round, who even though I liked him as a prospect, is still a rookie and not from a Power Five conference. They've also let solid players in Richburg and Pugh leave as free agents.
    I think they can make the playoffs, but I wouldn't bet on it. They definitely aren't as bad as the 3-13 team they were last year and that's even counting before Barkley. Last year was a throw away year.

    It all really depends on the new coaching staff and how the new schemes fit with the roster. I can't say how well it will all work until I see it on the field. There is enough talent on the roster to push for a playoff spot, but they do have some valid question marks going into the season like the right side of their O-line, DB depth, pass rushing, and of course Eli Manning. I don't necessarily think all those question marks will be weaknesses, but they could be.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 04-30-2018 at 02:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  11. #596
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    When the Patriots took Duke Dawson (CB, Flr) in Round 2, Mel "Eddie Munster Hairdo" Keiper said that he grabs a lot, which leads to defensive holding penalties in the NFL. But in this case, it doesn't matter -- Dawson's going to play for New England.

    The Chiefs did not draft a player that I heard of or whose name I came across before the draft. But that doesn't mean they're all bad picks; especially considering I took it a little easy on my research this year.
    Last edited by MidwestJimmy; 04-30-2018 at 02:24 PM.

  12. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    Do you really believe that?

    They've hardly changed the defense from a personnel perspective; in fact they've lost 3 decent players (JPP, DRC, Kennard) and had one notable addition in Ogletree. They are changing schemes though.

    As for the OL, they've added Solder who's is now the highest paid OT in the NFL but the 5th best OT in the NFC East. They drafted a guard in the 2nd round, who even though I liked him as a prospect, is still a rookie and not from a Power Five conference. They've also let solid players in Richburg and Pugh leave as free agents.
    Here's an interesting thing I heard in the podcast... Last year their starters played about 90% of the snaps on defense. That is just too much and easily explains the wear and tear down the stretch. They lost three decent players in JPP, DRC, and Kennard but they added depth also. They added a great addition in Ogletree and then followed that up with better guys through the draft and free agency who can spell their starters and have them play 70-75% of the snaps instead and give them fresher bodies.

    In addition to that, they will be getting a bunch of guys back this year (hopefully). They lost their best two players last year in OBJ and Landon Collins. Both should be back this year and that's a huge lift for the team.

    And lastly, they added a RB to make it so Eli Manning doesn't need to throw the ball 600+ times a year anymore. That's going to be huge for them as it just takes a lot out of a QB to have to throw so much. That's almost 40 passing attempts a game and that is just way too much for most QB.

    Heck one can argue the big difference between the Eagles and Cowboys in 2016 and 2017 is the strain on the QB play in both years. For the Eagles, Carson Wentz had to attempt less passes per game in 2017 than he did in 2016 (about 38 to 33-34) and for the Cowboys Dak Prescott had to increase the amount of attempts he had per game (from 28 to 31). In doing so you are giving up the time of possession time and you are also more susceptible to bigger mistakes.

    I do think the Giants will be dangerous in the NFC and NFC East. Do I think they are better than the Eagles or Cowboys? No. But I think they can possibly be if things work out well.

  13. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    Here's an interesting thing I heard in the podcast... Last year their starters played about 90% of the snaps on defense. That is just too much and easily explains the wear and tear down the stretch.
    They did that in 2016 too though...

    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    And lastly, they added a RB to make it so Eli Manning doesn't need to throw the ball 600+ times a year anymore. That's going to be huge for them as it just takes a lot out of a QB to have to throw so much.
    ... and the Giants had been very pass happy ever since McAdoo took over the offense.

    In fact, Eli was praised for having among the best statistical seasons of his career in 2014-15, while attempting more passes than in 2017.

    So I get what you're saying, but you're having your cake and eating it, too. Not rotating the DL and having your QB throw a lot of passes are both not ideal. But you can't make those two things the reasons for the 3-13 season, when they were just as present during the 11-5 season.

    I'd argue the Giants in both season were a fundamentally mediocre team, largely because the QB is mediocre. The difference between 2016 and 2017 in my opinion was simply luck -- in terms of injuries and winning close games (8-3 in one-score games in 2016) -- as well as poor coaching.

    It seemed to me like the coaching was poor for motivational reasons more than scheme. While I expect improvement in the latter, unfortunately Shurmur has a very timid personality and I don't think Bettcher and Shula are much different. So there could be some locker room problems again.

    The Giants are a 7 win team in my opinion. (11+3)/2=7. With a good amount of luck they might end up 9-7 and in the Wildcard round.

  14. #599
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    Shouldn't Jim Brown have announced picks for the Ravens instead of the Browns?

  15. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    IDK what this has to do with anything. I'm talking about a prospect like Darnold, Allen, Rosen, etc.

    Obviously if a generational QB prospect was available at #2, Giants would have taken him.
    The point is that a team picking high won't pass on a can't-miss QB.

    It's only ever possible to trade up for a QB that someone else doesn't want. The cost for such a move shouldn't be ignored either, especially if the assumption is that Barkley can elevate any QB, which is the reason why he was the 2nd overall pick. So the choice in the future isn't just Barkley or a QB, but more like Beckham, Richburg, Collins or a QB.

    You said: "Teams trade up for QB's all the time. Literally happens like every year."
    With QBs referring to prospects the caliber of "Darnold, Allen, Rosen", i.e. a Top 10 pick. We could also include Watson at 12, but he was not as highly regarded as those three.

    Either way, your statement is recency bias. It happened 2x in 2016, 2x in 2017, and 3x in 2018. Two of those six happened solely because the Browns were tanking and hoarding picks, which is a strategy that won't be repeated soon. Then before that you had 1x in 2012. After that nothing all the way back until 1x in 2001. A 2013 (no QBs) or 2015 (no trades) draft class is much more likely than a 2018 one. The last time 4 QBs were drafted in the Top 10 was 1949.

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