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  1. #391
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    Kyrie is def going to the Knicks one way or another.

  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpgmaster86 View Post
    Kyrie is def going to the Knicks one way or another.
    Celts want apart of that deal

    "Shark Tank Danny"

    NYK : Kyrie

    BOS: #9, TimJr & 2020 first rnd pick.

    Roz Smart Larkin
    JB Smart Timjr
    GW Timjr Semi
    Tatum Theis Yab
    Horf Baynes

    Trade Morris, #9 & #27 for rights to Mobamba

    Future: JB - Tatum - Mobamba - Sac pick
    Last edited by esb; 06-12-2018 at 03:13 PM.

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    I think it would be hard to find another player in the league to replace what Smart brings to this team but at the end of the day he’s a role player.

    $14m or more for Smart Vs rookie on rookie contract + bigger role for Rozay should = his replacement.
    The thing is with Smart, what he does is not on the stat sheet. As an avid C's fan I'm sure you already know this. As much as I like Rozier, he's not consistent enough on D, he doesn't play defense to the level of Smart even when he's on, and he's a true PG. He can't really guard anyone other than a 1 or a small 2. Smart can guard 1-4. 1-5 at times. Smarts versatility and elite D is huge in playoff series where the opposing team has a true star.

    That said, can we live without Smart? Sure. But we're better off with him. I have my doubts any team is going to offer him a huge contract. I think 3/$37M should get it done. That's manageable and should his contract become a burden I think it's moveable in a trade.

    I think DA was quoted saying something along the lines of we have MAX contracts now rookie/exceptions/minimum deals are valuable to us
    Definitely true. I mean we see it in guys like Theis and Ojeleye who have value contracts. They're not stars but their productions is definitely greater than their contracts. Have to have guys like that. In no way am I advocating Smart get a MAX contract.


    If Dedmon is about the money than he can stay in ATL...O’Quinn would be another option maybe??
    O'Quinn is another interesting option. He has a PO this year for $4M. My guess is he opts out of that for more money which he should get. I doubt anyone pays him more than $8-10M though. So he may be an option for the MLE. If Baynes is gone, I could see O'Quinn getting a call.

    City of Champions

  4. #394
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    Jun 2016
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    260
    I think Smart is gonna stay. The more I think about it the more it is becoming a pipe dream to keep Smart and Baynes. It would be great but I think we are gonna have to use the Baynes $ to keep Smart with out our salary going thru the roof. I honestly believe Smart will end up taking less to stay. I think he realizes what he is. And what he is to this team. Everyone’s goal is to win and make $. He was the beginning of this process. He is a Celtic. He will sign somewhere between 14-16 million a year for 3 with a player option. I also am starting to think Rozier isn’t going anywhere because the more Irving talks the more obvious it becomes that we need the insurance. I think our most likely course of action is using #27 to move Yabusele’s $ by moving back. We have kinda gotten spoiled the past few years by having our cake and eating it too. Being. Playoff team while also picking in the top 6 of the draft. It can’t be that way every year. Ideally we could use 1-2 picks next year to move up because of the amount of quality bigs coming out this year but with the protections on those picks and the draft being so deep that people don’t need want to move back. I think we will bring back a similar squad this year. I think we are looking at

    Irving/Rozier
    Brown/Smart/Nader
    Hayward/Morris/Ojeleye
    Tatum/Theis
    Horford

    We all look to sign a cheap stretch 4 or 5
    And have 1-2 rookies fighting for that 13th roster spot.

    Next year could be the year we shake things up if Irving leaves and that Sacramento pick falls in our favor.

  5. #395
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    Sounds good, sign Smart 3/39(12/13/14) possibly with a team option, maybe sign O’quinn/Dedmon/Other big With MLE, Jack Vet min. Draft Mitchell Robinson


    Kyrie/Rozay/Jack
    Brown/Smart
    Hayward/Morris
    Tatum/Thies
    Horford/O’quinn-Dedmon/Mitchell


    Next year Flip Horford/Brown/picks for AD

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpgmaster86 View Post
    Kyrie is def going to the Knicks one way or another.
    That would be very telling.

    Reports on Kyrie's extension are pretty mixed. Maybe it's too soon to gauge. Perhaps he doesn't want to commit and be low-balled coming off injury. That's negotiations 101, I get it. Curry's contract is his objective.

    But nevertheless this is a significant Celtics off-season: if Kyrie leaves in '19, Danny and the FO will have to change course quickly. Plus losing the asset would be devastating.

    Given that, how isn't this the same behavior that people kill LeBron for? Keeping teams on their heels at the expense of long-term planning.

    My argument is KI is really not that different from LeBron, this is all a honeymoon phase with Boston. I think he'd be wishy-washy on his future with or without the injury.

    We'll see though.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soxtober040713 View Post
    I think Smart is gonna stay. The more I think about it the more it is becoming a pipe dream to keep Smart and Baynes. It would be great but I think we are gonna have to use the Baynes $ to keep Smart with out our salary going thru the roof. I honestly believe Smart will end up taking less to stay. I think he realizes what he is. And what he is to this team. Everyone’s goal is to win and make $. He was the beginning of this process. He is a Celtic. He will sign somewhere between 14-16 million a year for 3 with a player option. I also am starting to think Rozier isn’t going anywhere because the more Irving talks the more obvious it becomes that we need the insurance. I think our most likely course of action is using #27 to move Yabusele’s $ by moving back. We have kinda gotten spoiled the past few years by having our cake and eating it too. Being. Playoff team while also picking in the top 6 of the draft. It can’t be that way every year. Ideally we could use 1-2 picks next year to move up because of the amount of quality bigs coming out this year but with the protections on those picks and the draft being so deep that people don’t need want to move back. I think we will bring back a similar squad this year. I think we are looking at

    Irving/Rozier
    Brown/Smart/Nader
    Hayward/Morris/Ojeleye
    Tatum/Theis
    Horford

    We all look to sign a cheap stretch 4 or 5
    And have 1-2 rookies fighting for that 13th roster spot.

    Next year could be the year we shake things up if Irving leaves and that Sacramento pick falls in our favor.
    No 24 y/o NBA player worth his salt thinks like that: I am what I am, relegate me to 7th guy off the bench. Reduce my minutes with the "starters" coming back. Keep me seated during crunch time.

    Smart fashions himself a major part of the C's success and thus worth the money and minutes available. Neither of which Boston can offer most. I think there's a very good chance he walks.

    Which is a major loss to the team's defensive identity.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Still not seeing the correlation here. You're talking about happenstances, not rules. In today's world not many countries fade into mediocrity and irrelevance over night. It's generally a long played out timeline of bad decisions that ultimately leads to their demise. There's also many more outside factors in the success of a countries economic success. That is less true in sports. In sports, generally when you're falling from the mountain top - it's on you as an organization and the decisions you've made and less about external factors.

    Off subject anyways. I just don't like the comparison. If you do. Great.
    The origin of this discussion was signing/acquiring LeBron and how disruptive it could be to the organization. Many of the points I concede as valid.

    All I'm saying is the C's are one move away (KI walking) from this team's future being kinda flipped on its head. Which, BTW, Danny doesn't have much control over. This is a stars league after all. And stars want what stars want.

    No sense in beating this horse dead, but my point is the anti-LeBron arguments have an underlying level of certainty that I'm not sure exist here. If there's a higher chance to get a ring or two without leaving the organization's future in ruins (which, IMO, the Celtics are uniquely positioned to leverage) or throwing away the kids, you do it.

    Right now, we have a short "window" with likely major defensive hits next seasons. And a lot is riding on Brown to reach the next level in the long-term too.
    Last edited by elements1985; 06-12-2018 at 08:35 PM.

  9. #399
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    I hate to say it, but I think Orlando or some bad team offers Smart way too much money this offseason believing that he can fix their losing culture. I think he’s a goner.

    I get the feeling that these Kyrie to the Knicks rumors are true. He’s always been a guy that has marched to the beat of his own drum and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he wanted to be in the big apple. If that’s the case and Smart is gone, I think you have to keep Rozier just to have an experienced PG. If the Celtics know this to be true with Kyrie, try to keep it quiet and maximize his value in a trade. I would make a full court press for LeBron if the above is true as well.

    Some other interesting names out there for consideration that no one has brought up:

    -Will Barton: Not a great defender but he can be a pretty good 6th/7th man offensively.

    -Jerami Grant: I feel like he’s a bit underrated. He’d also be a nice, solid bench piece if the Celtics are considering trading Morris. I thought he was decent with OKC last year and his per 36 and 100 possession numbers bear that out.
    Last edited by BostonBoy; 06-12-2018 at 08:48 PM.

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I wouldn’t trade Brown for Carter or Bamba. I think the upside of those guys panning our would be better for us roster composition wise but that’s far from a guarantee. Wouldn’t make that gamble because I think we can seriously push for a title as is. And even if Bamba or Carter did pan out it’s still probably a are back for at least a year or two compared to Brown.

    The idea you need a great big is archaic IMO. You just need great players regardless of position. It’s fine to plug in just rotational guys at center.
    Just look at who wins MVP's since Shaq was done winning them. It's a wing and PG's game, and 4's that can nail 3's. However, if you can better yourself with a C that can play in Brad's style over a lesser player, you do. Carter would cost less and seems to fit the pattern better, could be the way, Bamba does not appear to be such a sure fit.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  11. #401
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    I don't get the fuss about Kyrie saying an extension over the summer isn't financially prudent for him and he's more focused on the 18'/19' season...

    He wants the MAX, and he wants the MAX from someone...

    IMO, DA took the chance trading the unprotected BK to the Cavs for Kyrie... If (big if), Kyrie played in the postseason, the C's go to the finals...

    8th pick...Kyrie... 8th pick... Kyrie... I'll take Kyrie... His health track record isn't super solid, but each season that he lost significant time to an injury he came back playing at least 70 games the following season (small sample size)... And in 16'/17' he came back, played 70 games, all 18 playoff games going 36mpg and 26ppg... I'll take 70 games in 18'/19' with no playoff games missed hands down...

    As for Smart... The Kyrie extension talk makes his contract situation interesting... Do you want to lose Kyrie in 19'/20' and also Smart next season...??? Two completely different players, but both very dynamic players in their own right...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    That would be very telling.

    Reports on Kyrie's extension are pretty mixed. Maybe it's too soon to gauge. Perhaps he doesn't want to commit and be low-balled coming off injury. That's negotiations 101, I get it. Curry's contract is his objective.

    But nevertheless this is a significant Celtics off-season: if Kyrie leaves in '19, Danny and the FO will have to change course quickly. Plus losing the asset would be devastating.

    Given that, how isn't this the same behavior that people kill LeBron for? Keeping teams on their heels at the expense of long-term planning.

    My argument is KI is really not that different from LeBron, this is all a honeymoon phase with Boston. I think he'd be wishy-washy on his future with or without the injury.

    We'll see though.
    I think the 2 situations are completely different. LeBron has been asking for 1+1 contracts so each year he has a decision to make. It gives him more control over the organizational structure and allows him to play GM...Mainly because if you won't do what he wants from year to year...He'll just pack his bags and leave. Now it's been mutually beneficial for CLE up until now because CLE gets to be perennial finals contenders. BUT now that he's leaving CLE is hamstrung with terrible contracts and a bloated payroll for average talent, and LeBron is leaving.

    Kyrie's situation is more understandable. He can make more money by waiting. I'm going to assume he intends to sign a true MAX for 4-5 years, not just go 1 year at a time, because that would be the smart thing to do. When you're the best player in the world and have a freak of nature body, you're not worried about your value decreasing. That's not the case for Kyrie. Coming off injury, the ability to make more money by not signing an extension, and using FA as a negotiation tactic is just smart. The Kyrie situation is overblown. He's doing exactly what he should do. If he comes out and says no matter what he'll resign next offseason, he gives Danny leverage. But once he gets his MAX the drama is over. This is Kyries big payday. It'll be his last big contract so I can't blame the guy for trying to maximize that. LeBron's ploy was different.

    City of Champions

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonBoy View Post
    I hate to say it, but I think Orlando or some bad team offers Smart way too much money this offseason believing that he can fix their losing culture. I think he’s a goner.

    I get the feeling that these Kyrie to the Knicks rumors are true. He’s always been a guy that has marched to the beat of his own drum and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he wanted to be in the big apple. If that’s the case and Smart is gone, I think you have to keep Rozier just to have an experienced PG. If the Celtics know this to be true with Kyrie, try to keep it quiet and maximize his value in a trade. I would make a full court press for LeBron if the above is true as well.

    Some other interesting names out there for consideration that no one has brought up:

    -Will Barton: Not a great defender but he can be a pretty good 6th/7th man offensively.

    -Jerami Grant: I feel like he’s a bit underrated. He’d also be a nice, solid bench piece if the Celtics are considering trading Morris. I thought he was decent with OKC last year and his per 36 and 100 possession numbers bear that out.
    I don't think so. A. Not many teams have that type of money to blow this offseason like previous years. B. Reports indicate many of the "non contending/far away" teams that have cap space are likely waiting until the 2019 offseason - that Free Agent class is setting up to be a nice one...Kawhi, Kyrie, Klay, Butler...

    Only 9 teams have more than $15M in practical cap space this offseason. If you want to take Smart away from Boston I think you have to offer more than $15M - so here's the teams with the space to do it.

    LAL - There eyes are set on much bigger targets - LeBron, George
    CHI - They could theoretically be a problem, but they have to resign LeVine and I doubt they splurge this offseason
    PHI - I mentioned in an earlier post that I think PHI could be the one team I worry about. If they strike out on all the big names the could chase Smart for his defense. More likely though, they re-sign Redick and wait until 2019
    SAC - Again, too far away from competing. I doubt they splurge on Smart. Then again, it's SAC and they've done crazier things
    DAL - Could be a contender for Smart
    HOU - has to re-sign CP3, so they're out
    BRK - Could be a contender for Smart
    ORL - Have to re-sign Gordon. They're out

    Here's a list of Free Agents that will make more than Smart
    LeBron - LAL/HOU likely
    Redick - possibly
    CP3/Capela - HOU takes them out of Smart running
    Cousins - wildcard where he ends up
    Parker - wildcard where he ends up
    Gordon - ORL takes them out of the Smart running
    Randle - wildcard where he ends up
    George - OKC/LAL
    Jordan - wildcard where he ends up
    Anthony - if he declines PO
    Nurkic - likely to resign but no guarantee

    Then you have a bunch of guys who will be right around Smarts money...Payton/Ariza/Favors/Kanter/LaVine/Evans/IT

    In summation...There's a lot working against Smart.
    1. Not a ton of money floating around this offseason
    2. A lot of high end players above him...And a handful equal to him
    3. He's a defensive specialists, usually this type makes less than their offensive counterparts
    4. The NYK/ATL/SAC/BRK of the world are poised to wait another offseason because they're far away from competing....And Smart simply isn't good enough to build around and commit high dollars too.
    5. Essentially - Smart is worth more to playoff teams than rebuilding teams. Playoff teams generally don't have money to spend

    City of Champions

  14. #404
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    It's always fun to reach for the stars, but, what is the minimum DA will do this off season?

    Extend Smart
    Extend Baynes or grab other C with MLE
    Move Morris
    Take #27 - most likely a Eurostash, DA could also trade out to the 2nd if he needs dough for another move.

    With the assumed full return of Hayward, Tatum has to get minutes at 4, meaning Horford will log more time at 5. Horford does wear down, and 5 is tougher for him to play for 4, so there is only so much of this you can do.

    KI is doing what any fiscally savvy pro athlete would do. Rozier back as the back-up, potential understudy. Why would Rozier sign any extension while he could end up as a career back-up here. How can Boston deal him w/o knowing KI's contract/injury status?

    Theis could be the best dollar for dollar guy on the roster, but, he's going to elbow his way in for PT.

    If we want to get some more O on the 2nd team there is always Tyreke. Not sure we can fit him.

    Horford/Baynes/Theis
    Tatum/Horford/Theis/Yabu
    Hayward/xxxxx/Smart
    Brown/Smart
    KI/Rozier/Larkin

    If LBJ is in the West, this is the ECF winner, assuming average health
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  15. #405
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    Jan 2011
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    658
    LBJ is FA.....so work a sign and trade. LBJ 3yr deal option to leave in third yr.

    NYK: Kyrie
    BOS: LBJ
    CAVS: #9(via ny) & #27(via bos)

    Cavs picks 8, 9 and 27. Start the rebuild

    Kyrie goes to where he might want to be, and still away from LBJ.

    LBJ gets to chase more rings on a great young team in the east and beat up on Kyrie doing it.

    LBJ/Roz
    JB/Smart(will stay to win rings)
    GW/Morris
    JT/Theis
    AH/Baynes(will stay to win rings)

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