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  1. #1
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    Kawhi Leonard trade speculations...

    I figured I'd make a post because of the magnitude of these rumors...

    Personally I would have a difficult time if a Kawhi Leonard trade goes down... Assuming that 1 of/or both Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are involved...

    Here are my reasons...

    1) Kawhi has 1 more year on his contract (player option after that)...
    2) Kawhi's injury is a wee bit concerning, especially since Hayward is coming back from a bad injury... Oh and yes Kyrie had season ending knee surgery...
    3) The KG and Ray Ray trades gave up what player wise...??? Big AL was the centerpiece... Nothing against Big AL, but IMO he's no way near what JB's and JT's promising future... Plus the pick given to Minny was top 3 protected...
    4) Kawhi is gonna be 27 in June... Getting to his prime, but then what...???
    5) IMO, the KG and Ray Ray trades pretty much guaranteed that 07'/08' title (should have been 08'/09' also)...

    I probably missed some of points, but bottom line... No to a Kawhi trade if JB/JT are involved...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  2. #2
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    I'd be ok with getting Kawhi and ok with not getting him. I think we have enough talent to win now if we can stay healthy. Plus we still have a bunch of future assets. At the same time it would be tough to pass up a player with his talents for the right price. I wouldn't break the bank. I would do something like Horford, Brown, and our own draft pick in 2019. I doubt that would get it done though. A lineup of Kyrie, Hayward, Leonard, and Tatum would be something though.

  3. #3
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    No way would I give up Brown or Tatum. What leverage does SA have if expiring Kawhi misses the entire postseason after playing only 9 RS games?

    C's need to also be mindful of building around injured players, as mentioned above.

  4. #4
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    Any other time I’d jump on a Khawi trade...

    But we have Hayward/Tatum/Brown/Morris playing basically the same spot as him...idk

  5. #5
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    You guys are insane. Kawhi is a top 5 player in the league when healthy and truthfully, I think him being out has nothing to do with his “injury” at this point. It’s been said by Jalen Rose (among others) that he just doesn’t like the Spurs organization.

    I would gladly give up Jaylen Brown if it meant going into next season with a core of Kyrie/Hayward/Leonard/Tatum. Hayward/Leonard/Tatum can guard 2-4 interchangeably (and sometimes 5s in small ball lineups). That’s a core that has a top 5 player in Kawhi, a top 10 player in Kyrie, and 3 top 30-40 players between Horford/Hayward/Tatum (even if Hayward doesn’t get his legs back until 3/4 of the way through next season).

    Not only that, these guys are young. You build around Kyrie/Leonard in the short term, give Tatum a max deal when Horford/Hayward expire, and enjoy the ride for basically 6-7 years.

    I get wanting to hold onto Jaylen hoping that he becomes Kawhi but why do that when you can just go get Kawhi? You might not even need to empty the treasure trove of draft picks to do it.

  6. #6
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    I'm not giving up Brown or Tatum for Kawhi. Brown is a player that is well on his way to being a Kawhi type player with his defense and scoring. Brown is only 21 yrs old and is ahead of schedule compared to Kawhis growth. Brown shot almost 40 percent from 3. Tatum is a stud, I'm only giving up one of these guys if it brings in an Anthony Davis or Karl Anthony Towns type of player. I believe Brown and Tatums upside as a Guard/Forward is tremendous and would not trade them for a player who is 6-7 yrs older, plays the same position, coming off an injury plagued season, and will cost a ton of money

  7. #7
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    I'm liking the responses versus the bashing... I think there are at least a dozen or so posters I would like to read their point of view...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by corky831 View Post
    I'm not giving up Brown or Tatum for Kawhi. Brown is a player that is well on his way to being a Kawhi type player with his defense and scoring. Brown is only 21 yrs old and is ahead of schedule compared to Kawhis growth. Brown shot almost 40 percent from 3. Tatum is a stud, I'm only giving up one of these guys if it brings in an Anthony Davis or Karl Anthony Towns type of player. I believe Brown and Tatums upside as a Guard/Forward is tremendous and would not trade them for a player who is 6-7 yrs older, plays the same position, coming off an injury plagued season, and will cost a ton of money
    You’re hoping Brown reaches that potential. Kawhi is Jaylen’s ceiling but there’s no guarantee he hits that ceiling. Jaylen is 21 and Kawhi is 26, it’s not like you’re trading a 21 year old for someone on the back end of their prime. Kawhi is squarely in his prime and will likely be the better overall player.

    Kawhi averaged 12/6/1.6 on 49%/37%/82% with 1.7 steals and 0.6 blocks in his age 21 season (2 less shots per game than Jaylen).

    Jaylen averaged 14.5/5/1.6 on 46%/39%/64% with 1 steal and 0.4 blocks in his age 21 season.

    To say he’s “ahead of schedule compared to Kawhi’s growth” just isn’t true. Kawhi was a better shooter and better defensive player at the same age.

    I don’t want to be labeled as someone that isn’t a Brown supporter. I love the kid. But I would certainly give up Brown for Kawhi while we’re in Kyrie/Hayward’s prime and before the beginning of Horford’s downswing.

    I don’t give Tatum up for anyone. Brown is the trade chip.

  9. #9
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    Now the question is, can Kawhi continue to play at that level especially after having this chronic injury that knocked him out for the entire season, especially since he's one step closer to 30 and his athleticism will begin to deteriorate? In a trade for him, it'll be Brown + other pieces. Is an older Kawhi coming off injury better long term worth sacrificing a much younger and rapidly improving Brown plus roster depth, maybe even Tatum?

  10. #10
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    I thought this gave some decent points when I read it last week. It's just a fan post over at celtics blog. But it brought up great points

    https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/4/9...-boston-rumors

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonBoy View Post
    You’re hoping Brown reaches that potential. Kawhi is Jaylen’s ceiling but there’s no guarantee he hits that ceiling. Jaylen is 21 and Kawhi is 26, it’s not like you’re trading a 21 year old for someone on the back end of their prime. Kawhi is squarely in his prime and will likely be the better overall player.

    Kawhi averaged 12/6/1.6 on 49%/37%/82% with 1.7 steals and 0.6 blocks in his age 21 season (2 less shots per game than Jaylen).

    Jaylen averaged 14.5/5/1.6 on 46%/39%/64% with 1 steal and 0.4 blocks in his age 21 season.

    To say he’s “ahead of schedule compared to Kawhi’s growth” just isn’t true. Kawhi was a better shooter and better defensive player at the same age.

    I don’t want to be labeled as someone that isn’t a Brown supporter. I love the kid. But I would certainly give up Brown for Kawhi while we’re in Kyrie/Hayward’s prime and before the beginning of Horford’s downswing.

    I don’t give Tatum up for anyone. Brown is the trade chip.
    I'd try to hold off till the trade line if possible to see if he is healthy and playing well. Juat because we would have have 3 injury prone super stars in KI KL GH. If 2 2 go down at a time we are screwedd. No way Tatum goes if I'm Danny

  12. #12
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    Yes but only under specific terms.

    First off, let's just state the obvious. SAS is going to do everything they can to keep and build around Kawhi Leonard. BUT, there does seem to be something going on behind the scenes more than a hamstring injury. So if whatever that is, can't be fixed...We're talking about a premier player in the NBA (who now has some baggage) being available. This will slightly devalue his market but he would still be heavily sought after.

    Second. The SAS are a world class organization and other top organizations generally don't trade with each other. Why? Because when a top organization makes a trade, they win. In the NBA there are VERY few win win trades in the long run.

    So 2 things here. 1. If he's available, let's say yes he is. 2. Proceed with caution because SAS is not stupid.

    I'd start the conversation off with...Our "big 3" is not on the table. (Kyrie, Hayward, Horford). Keeping them all. SAS probably isn't interested in the big 3 anyways because moving Kawhi signals rebuild. So getting back players rounding the top of their prime hill, won't likely be their targets. BUT, SAS will start the conversation with Tatum - to which I say, hard no.

    That leaves us Brown (who I love, but prefer Tatum overall long term).

    With Brown as the center piece, SAS will likely engage in talks.

    From here I propose the following.

    Brown
    Rozier
    Morris
    Yabusele
    Nader
    2019 BOS first
    2019 LAC first

    Another team would be hard-pressed to beat that offer. 2 young players who have playoff experience and performed in big moments. Both on rookie contracts and controllable for 2-3 years. A solid vet who can score. A young project player in Yabusele and 2 draft picks. It's not an unbeatable offer, but it's a good offer.

    It's hard to see Rozier go with the way he is playing right now, but long term it makes sense. Eventually we're going to have to let some guys go due to cap restraints....Smart, Rozier, Brown, Tatum (in order) will need to be paid some big money to be retained in the near future. With big contracts already in place (Hayward, Kyrie on a MAX, Horford) it's going to be near impossible to pay them all. This trade actually helps solve that issue for us. With Rozier playing at a starting caliber he's going to be near peak trade value right now, especially with another year at low money and a RFA the following year.

    SAS can re-build around Brown/Rozier...As we're witnessing now, they're a legit backcourt pair. They bring it all - defense - scoring - athleticism - youth, and they're at bargain prices for the next few years. This are perfect corner stones to rebuild around.

    Where does that leave us? With Smart as a pending Free Agent, and a season filled with turmoil, his stock is low and it's the perfect offseason to get him back at or below market value because not many teams will have the money to spend on a player like him. So the ability to sell high on Rozier and retain Smart aids this move and lessens the blow of losing Rozier, a player we're watching blossom before our eyes.

    Projected lineup

    PG- Kyrie Irving
    SG - Gordon Hayward
    SF - Kawhi Leonard
    PF - Jayson Tatum
    C - Al Horford
    6th - Marcus Smart

    I would argue, assuming health, that is a championship caliber top 6. We have an exception at our disposal, and my inclination would be to bring back Greg Monroe with that, which allows us to let Aron Baynes walk. Daniel Theis will be back to add some versatile depth. Shane Larkin can be brought back as PG #3 on cheap money. And Semi Ojeleye returns as well.

    We would have our own 2018 draft pick to add another depth piece. We should be able to fill out the roster with vet players chasing rings.

    Irving
    Hayward
    Leonard
    Tatum
    Horford
    Smart
    Monroe
    Thies
    Vet SG
    Vet SF
    2018 first rounder
    Ojeleye
    Larkin
    Last edited by Oakmont_4; 04-18-2018 at 07:51 PM.

    City of Champions

  13. #13
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    If it's both Brown/Tatum I say no. If it's one, I think it's an easy call. Leonard is a top 3-5 player in the league. I'd prefer giving up Brown over Tatum but think it would take Tatum to beat offers I expect from LAL and PHI. These trades for stars are about the centerpiece going back and I'd take Ingram or Fultz over Brown but not Tatum.

    Tatum/Rozier/Yabu/Semi/Nader works salary wise (not on the trade machine because that uses this year's salaries but those guys combined would enough next year).

    A lot of people will include Morris in deals. I'd prefer to keep him because I think he's someone we can legitimately keep long-term on a MLE type deal (with the added bonus of doing it through bird rights rather than the actual exception to preserve flexibility). After making the deal above we'd have the following starting lineup:

    Kyrie
    Brown
    Hayward
    Leonard
    Horford

    So we need to finish the bench. We already have two second unit guys in Morris and Theis. So we need 3 more. In order to accomplish that we have bird and non-bird rights on our own guys, the taxpayer MLE, the bi-annual exception and vet min deals.

    I'd look to re-sign Smart with bird rights to preserve those other exceptions. I expect $8-10M/year.

    I really like what Baynes has brought this year for defense/rebounding and think that would be really important with the other scorers we have. We can use a non-bird exemption to sign him for $5.41M (125% of this year's salary) which I think is fair. Again, he preserves the MLE and fills a spot well.

    So now with the taxpayer MLE I want a shooter to pair with Smart in the backcourt. The list of FA SGs is here: https://hoopshype.com/2018/04/22/nba...ooting-guards/

    Some of those guys are RFAs or have options they likely don't decline but there's limited cap space around the NBA and we'd be a top contender so I think we could definitely land one of those guys. I'll just say Bellinelli for now because I like his instant offense with our defensive minded second unit.

    So we'd have a final 10 man rotation of:

    Kyrie / Smart
    Brown / Bellinelli
    Hayward / Morris
    Leonard / Theis
    Horford / Baynes

    Honestly, I actually like the balance of this lineup more though:

    Kyrie / Smart
    Leonard / Bellinelli
    Hayward / Brown
    Horford / Morris
    Baynes / Theis

    I'd save the bi-annual exception as leverage for in-season buyouts unless there's a deal they can't pass up. Like maybe Nerlens Noel's value is that in the tank or something like that.

    We'd still have our 1st round pick to add a player and then vet min deals. As a contender I'm sure we can get good pickings on the vet min market. I bet we can get Jabari Bird back for a vet min deal and I like what he did for is. Larkin would be awesome to have back at that price. But they'd fill out the roster with whoever.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  14. #14
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    If it's both Brown/Tatum I say no. If it's one, I think it's an easy call. Leonard is a top 3-5 player in the league. I'd prefer giving up Brown over Tatum but think it would take Tatum to beat offers I expect from LAL and PHI. These trades for stars are about the centerpiece going back and I'd take Ingram or Fultz over Brown but not Tatum.
    I'd take Brown over Fultz at this point. Brown is much further along now in year 2 than anyone expected. He actually looks like the second coming of Kawhi.


    A lot of people will include Morris in deals. I'd prefer to keep him because I think he's someone we can legitimately keep long-term on a MLE type deal (with the added bonus of doing it through bird rights rather than the actual exception to preserve flexibility). After making the deal above we'd have the following starting lineup:
    I just don't see Morris here for a couple of reasons. He's a great trade piece this offseason, with his contract at low money and expiring. His value is great with what he brings on the court vs. what he costs. However, he reminds me a lot of IT. He can bring scoring in bunches, but is hot or cold. He's ok a defense (better than IT) but doesn't seem all that interested in it. He's got a mouth on him. He doesn't want to be a role player, even though that's what he is. IDK. He just doesn't scream Brad Stevens guy to me. He's been huge for us this year because of injury based need. But if Hayward were healthy all season, I think he would be a problem honestly

    I'd look to re-sign Smart with bird rights to preserve those other exceptions. I expect $8-10M/year.
    I think more like $10. $8 seems unreasonable. He'll likely get an offer of $11-12 on the open market. I could see him taking a home town discount though if the money is close.

    City of Champions

  15. #15
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    I might end up eating my words if Jaylen can consistently play like he has in the playoffs thus far. If he shoots like that consistently, no need to make any trades. Just sit tight on all these picks and enjoy a 10 year window.

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