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  1. #106
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Germany
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    1,166
    Hopefully he's not known as Lickily Denzel in the locker room.
    Wenn Sie dies lesen durch elektronische ‹bersetzung, Sie sind jetzt noch lahm als Sie waren als Sie zum ersten Mal las und verstand es nicht.

  2. #107
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    8,152
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    As long as Payne can continue to hit open shots (37+ from 3) i am fine leaving him on the floor as long as he is not the primary ball handler or scorer. Lickily Denzel seemed to inprove as well. And portis is obviously a fringe starter so he can easily fill in around those two. We just need a defensive wing and big and that bench will be stout.

    Funny thing is the startsrs have a similar lineup/issue.
    Why? Payne did a very good job at running the offense. Why wouldn't he run the offense?

    I feel like the people who have a problem with Payne still haven seen him play at all. Instead are remembering what he did when jimmy was here when everyone played 1v1 basketball.

  3. #108
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    17,689
    Does Payne still suck at defense?

  4. #109
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Mishawaka, IN
    Posts
    5,027
    I don't like the idea of having Valentine and Payne on the court at the same time for extended stretches. I'd prefer more athleticism

  5. #110
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    In a house in a Coldesac in Lake in the Hills, Il
    Posts
    23,358
    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownbullsBG7 View Post
    Why? Payne did a very good job at running the offense. Why wouldn't he run the offense?

    I feel like the people who have a problem with Payne still haven seen him play at all. Instead are remembering what he did when jimmy was here when everyone played 1v1 basketball.
    Because he can not run the offense. He can simply initiate it/ be in the flow of it. To me there is a major diference between being able to be a primary ball handler and create shots for you and others. And a guy who dribbles up the court and is more or less a 3 pt shooter who can pass relitivly well.

    Payne in no way shape or form last year was breaking down defenses and making plays. Denzel was closer to doing that for our 2nd team. Payne to me was just a cog in the wheel. Making and taking open shots and being able to hit open players within the offense.

    Tell me how many times you can count that payne dribbled into the defense and made a play either scoring or passing.

  6. #111
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,639
    You donít really need a guy to run the offense on the second unit though. You just need guys who can score and keep the team afloat while the starters rest. Thatís all we did during the Thib years with Nate/Brooks/DJ etc. Payne can create as well as those guys did and with Denzel and Portis youíre gonna have enough scoring. Maybe the defense isnít great but if the scoring keeps up itís fine.

    Honestly between Jerian Grant and Payne Iíll take Payne 99 times out of 100. Grant is more athletic and a better defender but his offense is sooo frustrating. Half the dudes I play with at LA fitness have better vision than he does (obvious exaggeration before someone calls me out :P).

    Is Payne the ideal second PG? Not really. But is he someone who can do a good enough job to handle on the second unit and score? Probably. He showed that this year when he got more opportunity. That said, I wouldnít hate drafting a guy like Carr who has higher potential later on in the draft.

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,694
    The other thing is, most of these guys come in the league at 19-20. It's perfectly reasonable to expect them to take 3, maybe four, maybe even 5 years before they really hit their NBA stride. College seniors typically graduate at 21-22. Look at players like Whiteside, Olidipo, even Jimmy Butler was older when he really broke out. Coaching, system, teammates, and opportunity for playing time play a huge role in development, as well as increases in strength and conditioning. People thought Snell was trash too, then he started playing well for the Bucks.
    Last edited by infinity2152; 05-12-2018 at 12:33 PM.

  8. #113
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Mishawaka, IN
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    5,027
    Quote Originally Posted by infinity2152 View Post
    The other thing is, most of these guys come in the league at 19-20. It's perfectly reasonable to expect them to take 3, maybe four, maybe even 5 years before they really hit their NBA stride. College seniors typically graduate at 21-22. Look at players like Whiteside, Olidipo, even Jimmy Butler was older when he really broke out. Coaching, system, teammates, and opportunity for playing time play a huge role in development, as well as increases in strength and conditioning. People thought Snell was trash too, then he started playing well for the Bucks.
    Did you see Tony SMELLS playoff numbers this year?

  9. #114
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Mishawaka, IN
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    5,027
    Not to mention his mediocre regular season

  10. #115
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    3,304
    I get so confused when people mention guys like Snell and James Johnson as good players. These are down the bench type of players if you have any championship aspirations.

  11. #116
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lynwood , IL
    Posts
    42,463

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