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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Exactly. And thatís what I chuckle about. The fact that thereís some think that they will pay it and there wonít be any blow back in terms of fans paying more, unmovable contracts, or ownership having financial problems.
    The investment in the Arena will help pay for it, all the arena revenue goes to the Warriors ownership group. They may cut back in 2020 or 2021 but until they are settled in and have the season tickets sold and the 30 year licenses sold (30 year loans from fans to pay for arena) they aren't going to mess with the product on the court.

    The numbers are mind-numbing. The Warriorsí combined payroll projections between this season and the 2020-21 campaign are set to be an unprecedented $1.1 billion, passing the price tag on the arena itself so long as they hand out the maximum salary contracts necessary to keep this special core together. Curry re-upped with a five-year, $201 million deal last summer, and thereís the forthcoming free agency for Kevin Durant (this summer), Klay Thompson (2019) and Green (2020) that will put them into unprecedented luxury tax territory if they're all retained.

    Itís the kind of economic reality that rival teams hope short-circuits this Warriorsí run, the last, great hope that the ďSuper VillainsĒ core will be broken up.
    Except for one thing: Their Death Star, this 11-acre entertainment district that will help owners Joe Lacob and Peter Guber balance their books with concerts and shows, doesnít have a fatal flaw.


    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...sty/979561001/

  2. #47
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    I love when people say there isnít a flaw. Thereís always a flaw. You never bank on it.

    When the city of Pittsburgh build PNC and Heinz Field they put in the AE entertainment indoor/outdoor concert center thinking it would help mitigate the cost by having a year round venue that would be a pull of money. Instead they are just breaking even with that part alone year after year.

    PROCESSING

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Not taking shots at the team. Laughing at fans who think it will all work and wonít lose anyone.

    And your very end shows you understand some of what my point is.
    And what I wonder about is why you would want to laugh at fans when you didn't like it when people were taking shots at your team?
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    I love when people say there isnít a flaw. Thereís always a flaw. You never bank on it.

    When the city of Pittsburgh build PNC and Heinz Field they put in the AE entertainment indoor/outdoor concert center thinking it would help mitigate the cost by having a year round venue that would be a pull of money. Instead they are just breaking even with that part alone year after year.
    I've lived near Pittsburgh when they were built and near SF when the SF Giants new park was built ... they are not comparable in nearly any way. The Steelers and Pirates have never drawn like the Warriors do. The SF Giants have shown what a quality stadium in the city can do, and they don't have the advantage of being an indoor arena. It may not work out as well as the Warriors say it will (seldom ever goes as well as we dream it might), but there is no reason to think it won't make a LOT of money for the owners. The Warriors have been profitable every year for the owners, and they bought the team 7 years ago for $450M and it's now valued at $3.1B, and that's before the new arena is factored in. When they say they can afford the $400M payroll they really can. That doesn't mean they will like it year after year after year, but they definitely are planning to keep it going at least through the first year in the new arena.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    And what I wonder about is why you would want to laugh at fans when you didn't like it when people were taking shots at your team?
    Your confusing two different things.

    People were taking shots at the team saying it will never work, never be good, Embiid will never play, etc. Fans still realized it can go wrong. We acknowledged it could go wrong.

    Iím gonna laugh when the fans say everything is great that the Warriors will easily keep everyone and it wonít be a problem; and something becomes a problem. Thatís not taking a shot at the team. Thatís laughing at the fans who donít acknowledge that there are other outcomes.

    Like I said, look at your one post. You admitted keeping all four core players would be tough. You seem to understand that itís a tall task to keep all of those players; and get to a reset with the tax. It seems as though others donít have that same understanding and they will just keep paying players thinking that the sales of everything will take care of it.

    It wonít. You can say now that people will still get it. Thatís ok. But at some point that $65 nose bleed is going to cost $130. Whoís taking that ticket? The family that was paying $65 canít. Do you think the lower bowl people will make that move.

    So yes I defended my team but admitted it can go wrong. And yes Iím going to laugh at those people who blindly say the Warriors can keep everyone. No they donít contradict.

    PROCESSING

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I've lived near Pittsburgh when they were built and near SF when the SF Giants new park was built ... they are not comparable in nearly any way. The Steelers and Pirates have never drawn like the Warriors do. The SF Giants have shown what a quality stadium in the city can do, and they don't have the advantage of being an indoor arena. It may not work out as well as the Warriors say it will (seldom ever goes as well as we dream it might), but there is no reason to think it won't make a LOT of money for the owners. The Warriors have been profitable every year for the owners, and they bought the team 7 years ago for $450M and it's now valued at $3.1B, and that's before the new arena is factored in. When they say they can afford the $400M payroll they really can. That doesn't mean they will like it year after year after year, but they definitely are planning to keep it going at least through the first year in the new arena.
    The Steelers havenít drawn like the Warriors? Thatís cute. The Steelers have a 130 year season ticket waiting list.

    Also valuation has nothing to do with cash on hand needed to pay the tax.

    PROCESSING

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    The Steelers havenít drawn like the Warriors? Thatís cute. The Steelers have a 130 year season ticket waiting list.

    Also valuation has nothing to do with cash on hand needed to pay the tax.
    What does have to do with cash on hand to pay the tax, is being the first NBA team to offer 30 year personal seat licenses for their ~12k season ticket holders (of which there is a 50,000 person and growing wait list) where every customer has to put down 15-30K for the license itself (which is effectively an interest free loan to the team that will be paid back in the year 2050). It gives them an extra ~240 million of cash to invest in the team in the immediate future if need be (that's obviously not counting actual ticket prices, concessions, etc of the new stadium they personally own).

    Don't worry so much about GS Warf. They're gonna be just fine.
    Last edited by tredigs; 04-11-2018 at 05:15 PM.

  8. #53
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    Those guys (Lacomb and Co.) seem super competitive. Gilbert seems like a cheap bastard that would rather make more money and lose than make less money and be title favorites every year. Especially now that he has a Cavs championship.

    And it's not like Lacomb and Co. aren't making hand over fists in other endevours while still making record profits with the new arena and the team. They're the new Lakers/Yankees and they're not going anywhere.

  9. #54
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    I'm pretty sure KD isn't quick to sign long term because he might be starting to see some chinks in the armor. He might be thinking that Curry has been hurt a bit too much for his liking this year and what if it persists? What if this is the start of the downward spiral for those ankles?

    When Livingston and Iguodala retire, will the next main backups be on their level? They're not making nor have they seemed inclined to make the minimum salaries that new guys coming in will be forced to saddle up with. Are they going to be getting more JaVales and Casspis and maybe a David West type? West is still decent but he's not Iggy or Livingston.

    Will Klay be worth 1/3 or 1/4 the cap? He's a great catch and shoot guy and a great defender but.......is he worth as much as he might command? And Draymond seems like the kind of guy that will diminish quickly when he goes and what if that's after he re-signs for 1/3 or 1/4 of the cap? And when will Draymond finally piss everyone off enough to get the boot? Will that throw everything off? Could they get equal value and still be as great as they are without Green?

    No idea if KD and Kerr are good or if it might escalate further? Might be a non-issue, might be a power struggle for who leaves.

    Also wondering what he'd think if they didn't win the title this year or this year and next. He might be ready to fly over to Philly or Boston or somewhere. He's done it before when things got tough and he wasn't signed long term.

  10. #55
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    I read an article a year ago that Lacob offered Steph below max. Is that true? Apparently Steph was willing to take less but since it wouldn't have affected the cap, it didn't matter and so he could get paid without it affecting the cap. I'm not saying Lacob wouldn't do it but it's his money. Let's wait and see but from my perspective, I always treat NBA owners as businessmen first and fans second. Even the Rockets owner admitted it.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    I'm pretty sure KD isn't quick to sign long term because he might be starting to see some chinks in the armor. He might be thinking that Curry has been hurt a bit too much for his liking this year and what if it persists? What if this is the start of the downward spiral for those ankles?

    When Livingston and Iguodala retire, will the next main backups be on their level? They're not making nor have they seemed inclined to make the minimum salaries that new guys coming in will be forced to saddle up with. Are they going to be getting more JaVales and Casspis and maybe a David West type? West is still decent but he's not Iggy or Livingston.

    Will Klay be worth 1/3 or 1/4 the cap? He's a great catch and shoot guy and a great defender but.......is he worth as much as he might command? And Draymond seems like the kind of guy that will diminish quickly when he goes and what if that's after he re-signs for 1/3 or 1/4 of the cap? And when will Draymond finally piss everyone off enough to get the boot? Will that throw everything off? Could they get equal value and still be as great as they are without Green?

    No idea if KD and Kerr are good or if it might escalate further? Might be a non-issue, might be a power struggle for who leaves.

    Also wondering what he'd think if they didn't win the title this year or this year and next. He might be ready to fly over to Philly or Boston or somewhere. He's done it before when things got tough and he wasn't signed long term.
    I doubt this. I think losing and then resigning would fare better for KD than if he were to lose and then leave. He's already one of the most disliked athletes in the NBA. If he loses and resigns with the Warriors, his ring would be a bit more validated.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Your confusing two different things.

    People were taking shots at the team saying it will never work, never be good, Embiid will never play, etc. Fans still realized it can go wrong. We acknowledged it could go wrong.

    Iím gonna laugh when the fans say everything is great that the Warriors will easily keep everyone and it wonít be a problem; and something becomes a problem. Thatís not taking a shot at the team. Thatís laughing at the fans who donít acknowledge that there are other outcomes.

    Like I said, look at your one post. You admitted keeping all four core players would be tough. You seem to understand that itís a tall task to keep all of those players; and get to a reset with the tax. It seems as though others donít have that same understanding and they will just keep paying players thinking that the sales of everything will take care of it.

    It wonít. You can say now that people will still get it. Thatís ok. But at some point that $65 nose bleed is going to cost $130. Whoís taking that ticket? The family that was paying $65 canít. Do you think the lower bowl people will make that move.

    So yes I defended my team but admitted it can go wrong. And yes Iím going to laugh at those people who blindly say the Warriors can keep everyone. No they donít contradict.
    Who has blindly said the Warriors will never lose anyone? Or is this really just about a couple specific annoying users here?
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    The Steelers havenít drawn like the Warriors? Thatís cute. The Steelers have a 130 year season ticket waiting list.

    Also valuation has nothing to do with cash on hand needed to pay the tax.
    I said the Steelers and the Pirates since those were the teams using the new facilities. And the money those Steelers fans are paying is far less than the Warriors fans are paying, also the Steelers fans tailgate and don't tend to shop in the area, they drive in tailgate with stuff they brought, and then they leave. Pittsburgh's economy was not near as strong then as SFs is now. The point was that the situations are very different.

    The valuation of a corporation has a major effect on cash on hand.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    I read an article a year ago that Lacob offered Steph below max. Is that true? Apparently Steph was willing to take less but since it wouldn't have affected the cap, it didn't matter and so he could get paid without it affecting the cap. I'm not saying Lacob wouldn't do it but it's his money. Let's wait and see but from my perspective, I always treat NBA owners as businessmen first and fans second. Even the Rockets owner admitted it.
    Yeah, the Warriors talk to all of their players about what they want and what it will mean to the team they are on going forward. KD, Klay, and Draymond have all said they'd consider taking less than the max, and all have already done it once (though some left more on the table than others)
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    I doubt this. I think losing and then resigning would fare better for KD than if he were to lose and then leave. He's already one of the most disliked athletes in the NBA. If he loses and resigns with the Warriors, his ring would be a bit more validated.
    Genuinely curious ... how do you figure out who is the most disliked? Considering that KD's jersey sales are near the top it must be people are buying the jerseys just to prank him because they dislike him?
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

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