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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    I don't really care too much about the topic, but have a serious question....


    Why do deluded Cavs fans keep improving the Nets pick? I've heard it all season, and even still now.

    All season long the Nets were about 8th from the bottom and even right this moment are 8th. But Cavs fans, including several in this thread have been steadily mentioning "Top 5 pick".

    DOES EVERYBODY ELSE KNOW SOMETHING I DON'T?

    Please link to your sauces (sources) for the rigged Nets pick that will ensure it lands higher.
    If the Cavs knew they would have the 8th best chance to win the lottery back in July, I don't think they would have accepted the trade IMO.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    If the Cavs knew they would have the 8th best chance to win the lottery back in July, I don't think they would have accepted the trade IMO.
    It might even be worse than 8th.

    Nets 2 final games are against the Bulls (full blown tank) and the Celtics who are locked into 2nd and will bench all their starters to rest for the playoffs.

    The Knicks who are 9th have back-to-back games against the Cavs who are still playing for the 3rd seed.

  3. #63
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    The earliest this question should be asked is the end of summer, when we know what the pick is and how Kyrie is recovering. Right now, Kyrie having a clean up pricedure on his knee is 10x better than a couple of bench players and a pick that could be #9 or #10.

  4. #64
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    We need to see what happens with the pick. Kyrie is the best player in the deal. Odds are Boston wins the deal.

  5. #65
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    Kyrie wanted out of Cleveland. It was unlikely he was going to make a positive contribution this season. In fact, it seemed like he wanted out last year, and his playoff performance, though about on par with his regulat season, seemed uninspired.

    He was clearly playing with motivation in Boston. He didn't give that o Cleveland last year (not to say he consciously wasn't trying because he put up strong numbers; just that he didn't have that fire under him).



    Cleveland wasn't getting anything out of Kyrie. They are getting something out of Nance, and Hill, and Hood, and Clarkson. So yeah... they did well on that trade. They are in a better position now than they would have been keeping Kyrie, AND they get a lottery pick.


    Boston is ahead to, in a way. They got the best player, but they'd quickly learned what Cleveland knew: he is injury prone, and as good as he can be, he does nothing when he's on the bench.


    So who won the trade?


    Well... both teams made out well. Boston got the best player, Cleveland improved.



    Who won the trade? The Raptors. They are now in a position to make their first finals appearance, and while I still feel like it will be Cleveland in the finals, the Raptors now have their best chance in franchise history to make it to the finals.
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    Kyrie wanted out of Cleveland. It was unlikely he was going to make a positive contribution this season. In fact, it seemed like he wanted out last year, and his playoff performance, though about on par with his regulat season, seemed uninspired.

    He was clearly playing with motivation in Boston. He didn't give that o Cleveland last year (not to say he consciously wasn't trying because he put up strong numbers; just that he didn't have that fire under him).



    Cleveland wasn't getting anything out of Kyrie. They are getting something out of Nance, and Hill, and Hood, and Clarkson. So yeah... they did well on that trade. They are in a better position now than they would have been keeping Kyrie, AND they get a lottery pick.


    Boston is ahead to, in a way. They got the best player, but they'd quickly learned what Cleveland knew: he is injury prone, and as good as he can be, he does nothing when he's on the bench.


    So who won the trade?


    Well... both teams made out well. Boston got the best player, Cleveland improved.



    Who won the trade? The Raptors. They are now in a position to make their first finals appearance, and while I still feel like it will be Cleveland in the finals, the Raptors now have their best chance in franchise history to make it to the finals.
    Just curious if we add the LAL and Utah transactions into it. Does Boston add the KG Min trade, KG-PP Boston trade, the Phx-IT trade, the Dal-Crowder trade? Where does it actually begin or end?

    My stance is just between the two teams, because adding other transactions creates a slippery slope. I think Boston is winning so far because Kyrie has gotten them more value and wins (win-shares), vs. what Crowder and It got for the Cavs which was close to nothing. The Cavs could end up winning if the lottery pick contributes more for them vs. Kyrie does for Boston, but odds are against them there, even with Kyries kness and injury concerns. I think the Cavs did godo in erasing/minimizing the bad decisions they made vs. Boston against LAL and Utah, and I think they are in a sold/ok spot given Kyrie wanted out.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    Just curious if we add the LAL and Utah transactions into it. Does Boston add the KG Min trade, KG-PP Boston trade, the Phx-IT trade, the Dal-Crowder trade? Where does it actually begin or end?

    My stance is just between the two teams, because adding other transactions creates a slippery slope. I think Boston is winning so far because Kyrie has gotten them more value and wins (win-shares), vs. what Crowder and It got for the Cavs which was close to nothing. The Cavs could end up winning if the lottery pick contributes more for them vs. Kyrie does for Boston, but odds are against them there, even with Kyries kness and injury concerns. I think the Cavs did godo in erasing/minimizing the bad decisions they made vs. Boston against LAL and Utah, and I think they are in a sold/ok spot given Kyrie wanted out.
    That's a fair point.

    I include Cleveland's subsequent trades with the peices they got from Boston because that is fruit from the same tree. They trade Kyrie and got assets back, and with those assets, they have gotten Nance, Clarkson, Hood, and Hill and a lottery pick.

    I think this is one of those trades where both teams improved as a result. Clevelnad put themselves in a better position moving forward. They had an injury prone PG who didn't want to be there, and the got a lottery pick, three young prospects, and a quality vet back for him.

    Boston got a huge upgrade at PG that makes them a contender when all parties are healthy.

    Cleveland is in a better position than they would have been keeping Kyrie; Boston is in a better position than they would have been had they kept IT, Crowder and the pick. The pick is the question mark, of course. It may turn out to be a special player, but in the short term, both teams have improve their situations in the trade.


    And trade also opened up the door for Toronto. So... Everybod wins!
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    The earliest this question should be asked is the end of summer, when we know what the pick is and how Kyrie is recovering. Right now, Kyrie having a clean up pricedure on his knee is 10x better than a couple of bench players and a pick that could be #9 or #10.
    Ultimately this trade was a win-win for both teams. Obviously the Cavs wouldnt have been any worse, because Kyrie wouldve sat thos year and with current lineup they are peaking for a playoff run now.

    Boston got rid of IT who was injured and shouldve sat all year possibly and Crowder was apparently not that valuable or whatever. Going FORWARD we dont know who wins the trade because is kyrie worth more than whatever the pick is. But CAvs win this year when they need it, although they wouldve preferred healthy motivated kyrie, and Boston dumps IT and Crowder and continues their long rebuild “process”

    It does surprise me that midseason the espn narrative flipped ar are ond and started blaming Lebron for kyrie leaving. Which to me and especially listening to how weirdly stanoffish he was and flat earth and all that on First Take I am sure this was a kyrie thing only. I mean they were in the finals then gor now reason he panics and forces his way out. The top franchise accomodates him, the lesser franchise reaches trying to get a star player is how it would usually read. But Cavs are what they are, but with Lebron they are actually the greater franchise

  9. #69
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    Did Cavs win the Kyrie for Isaiah trade now?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    Kyrie wanted out of Cleveland. It was unlikely he was going to make a positive contribution this season. In fact, it seemed like he wanted out last year, and his playoff performance, though about on par with his regulat season, seemed uninspired.

    He was clearly playing with motivation in Boston. He didn't give that o Cleveland last year (not to say he consciously wasn't trying because he put up strong numbers; just that he didn't have that fire under him).



    Cleveland wasn't getting anything out of Kyrie. They are getting something out of Nance, and Hill, and Hood, and Clarkson. So yeah... they did well on that trade. They are in a better position now than they would have been keeping Kyrie, AND they get a lottery pick.


    Boston is ahead to, in a way. They got the best player, but they'd quickly learned what Cleveland knew: he is injury prone, and as good as he can be, he does nothing when he's on the bench.


    So who won the trade?


    Well... both teams made out well. Boston got the best player, Cleveland improved.



    Who won the trade? The Raptors. They are now in a position to make their first finals appearance, and while I still feel like it will be Cleveland in the finals, the Raptors now have their best chance in franchise history to make it to the finals.
    If he can’t net 26 and 6 with a .57 ts% while being uninspired he’s better then any of us think


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  10. #70
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    One mire thing. Ainge may be the super special GM exec of the year fiery john macenroe scrappiest most awesomist gm ever, and their coach may be “outstanding (young) coach” with “tremendous tremendous oh my just excellent coaching up there in boston great future” however LoL a team that was clever enough to draft Giannis the greek freak is better, period end of story, which is why boston is apparently nothing now without kyrie and will get bounced bby mileaukee in first round very likely

  11. #71
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    The day Irving left the CAvs is when James had his ticket punched for LA. Even if CAvs land top 3 pick, when you lose James you lose the trade.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    It might even be worse than 8th.

    Nets 2 final games are against the Bulls (full blown tank) and the Celtics who are locked into 2nd and will bench all their starters to rest for the playoffs.

    The Knicks who are 9th have back-to-back games against the Cavs who are still playing for the 3rd seed.
    This.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    The earliest this question should be asked is the end of summer, when we know what the pick is and how Kyrie is recovering. Right now, Kyrie having a clean up pricedure on his knee is 10x better than a couple of bench players and a pick that could be #9 or #10.
    And this. If the Cavs got Ayton, Bagley, Doncic or Porter....id reconsider. Chances are slim with the Nets having a very good chance at winning their last 2 games. Kyrie is what, 3 yrs younger than IT? That's an upgrade in itself, and Kyrie is a better player than IT. Kyrie has the knee issue, but from the sound of it, the knee is fully healed and structurally sound. The 4-5 months will be helpful for Kyries health long term, and for the Celtics as an investment. Next yr with Hayward back, and Jaylen Brown and Tatum a yr wiser....Celtics are gonna be tough

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydubb View Post
    You always want to take the already established young star player that will likely be locked in for several more years over the unexpected outcome of a draft pick, no matter how high that draft pick may be.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Lol, your forgetting the detail of knee injuries ongoing

  15. #75
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    Teams aren’t static. You can sit here and say that CLE moved Crowder/IT for better fits but that’s salvaging that they FLOPPED on what they were getting. They thought BRK was a bottom 5 team but instead they’re closer to 10th worst. The pick couldnstill go #1 but CLE miscalculated regardless.

    CLE could end up with an amazing haul when we look back years from now. But evaluating the trade by itself... they flopped hard. Making great subsequent moves and some lottery luck could make that an overlooked part of the narrative though.

    From BOS perspective, they appropriately identified IT/Crowder as expendable and the Nets pick as needing some luck to really be super valuable. Kyrie has the knee trouble this year but the surgery is one that was known to be coming eventually, though the infection was unfortunate. It’s a move I think they’d make again easily.


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