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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    17,037
    Well it's not Ideal, but 160-2 is still a nice record.

    Nice win!
    ďItís about winning,Ē Stoudemire said. ďYou win, youíre going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won ó Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you donít win, nobody really wants to see you.Ē

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,278
    Good win, Osuna was nasty. Hoping for a split tomorrow.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    6,154
    Quote Originally Posted by passengershawn View Post
    I agree it was short-sighted & probably selfish trades from AA that brought the '15/16 frenzy. If you recall, I was not a big AA fan either because he whiffed way more than he made solid contact. However, he was very strategic & resourceful...I don't see that with Shapkins. They obviously weren't going to come here, assess the issue & announce a rebuild to the masses...I get that. I do think they mismanaged resources on unnecessary additions, and neglected improving the BP, especially the left side. Pretty much every piece they've brought in were 'flyers', which none really panned out except for Grilli in '16.

    What I can't stand is them trying to convince us that this current team can be competitive, when all they do is bring in spare parts. They may have lost huge leverage in any potential JD trade by not getting full value in the offseason, particularly if there's lingering health issues.

    Everyone knows that EVERYTHING has to play out in an ideal situation for this team to have a shot @ 85+ wins, let alone that the prospect of that happening is probably less than 10%. So why hang on for 1 more run? We both know why...to dupe the fans so they can fill seats. And that will ALWAYS be the mandate of corporate yes men like Shapiro. Every team needs/wants to make money, and every team wants to win. Some are more committed to winning because they know that will fill seats. Others are committed to money, hoping that full seats will help contribute to a winner.

    This is a big resin why the Mets, CWS, Padres, Braves, Phillies sip. They tried to hang on too long without adapting well on the fly, as well as longer-term. Clubs like Yanks, Bos, Cubs, LA, Hou either saw the writing & made tough short-term choices for longer term benefit, and/or drafted really well & avoided quick fixes & band-aid remedies. Now those teams have a solid offensive, pitching & defensive core that can take on risky and/or spare parts players as complimentary additions...not starters.
    Quote Originally Posted by passengershawn View Post
    What a hypocrite you are pal...poor little Reed & Co. can't deal with reality, and people who don't agree with you...boo hoo!

    I've stated my opinions, and for 95% of the time have refrained from respondingto personal baits & attacks. Mike & I have taken a beating over the past couple years for calling out the incompetence of Shapkins, while guys like you run to their defense in your rose colored glass world. Shapkins have done NOTHING to improve the roster the past 2+ seasons, but we're apparently idiots for noticing it. We've both offered suggestions (Mike articulates plausible solutions better than I), but you always have a reason to diss us & support Shapkins...which is your right & prerogative...as is our opinions.

    It's a fan forum, and passionate fans support, cheer, rant, vent, and recycle & start the process again. Robots & company men tow the line all year.

    If your goal to moderate is so you can ban us, then this forum is already dead.

    Dude, I hate to be rude, but I think my new name for you will be "negative nancy". (Since Pelfrey already has Debby Downer taken the way he brings the mood down in this forum on a daily basis).

    What do you mean everyone knows "EVERYTHING" has to go right to win 86 games? Do you speak for everyone now? No, you don't. I don't think you even speak for the majority ffs. So please keep those kind of "everyone thinks like me"type of comments to yourself and your haterade drinking buddies.

    I personally don't know (or even think) that at all. Gimme a healthy JD, Sanchez and Martin again and I think this team has more like a 96 win type of potential with their pitching staff and defense. They have 4 starters with legit 20+ win "potential". So if everything goes right their potential is a lot higher than 86.

    That being said, even 96 wins likely doesn't win this division this year. The way the AL is shaping up there's about 6 really good teams, so one of them is going to miss the playoffs.


    Here's a question....Would everyone hate Shapkins for not selling at the deadline if they end up winning 90+ games this year but get unlucky and still miss the playoffs? I know I wouldn't blame them for trying to get back into the post season again after watching so many horrible seasons between 93 and 2015. Going to the playoffs in 3 out of 4 seasons will help us in the off season when trying to recruit new talent.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,308
    Great to see Estrada pitch the way he did. Even if the team falters good starts from Estrada, Happ, Smoak and JD are important for the TDL. Even though good years from those guys make a sell off less likely.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    28,242
    Maybe it's because it's April and we don't have a long man, but I'm hoping Gibby has a quicker hook when it comes to the starters. Sanchez and Estrada were left in too long imo. This is coming from someone who likes Gibby.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,308
    I agree with Sanchez but I thought Estrada was a good call to leave in. He was pitching well and only at around 80 pitches I believe.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,819
    Quote Originally Posted by passengershawn View Post
    I agree it was short-sighted & probably selfish trades from AA that brought the '15/16 frenzy. If you recall, I was not a big AA fan either because he whiffed way more than he made solid contact. However, he was very strategic & resourceful...I don't see that with Shapkins. They obviously weren't going to come here, assess the issue & announce a rebuild to the masses...I get that. I do think they mismanaged resources on unnecessary additions, and neglected improving the BP, especially the left side. Pretty much every piece they've brought in were 'flyers', which none really panned out except for Grilli in '16.

    What I can't stand is them trying to convince us that this current team can be competitive, when all they do is bring in spare parts. They may have lost huge leverage in any potential JD trade by not getting full value in the offseason, particularly if there's lingering health issues.

    Everyone knows that EVERYTHING has to play out in an ideal situation for this team to have a shot @ 85+ wins, let alone that the prospect of that happening is probably less than 10%. So why hang on for 1 more run? We both know why...to dupe the fans so they can fill seats. And that will ALWAYS be the mandate of corporate yes men like Shapiro. Every team needs/wants to make money, and every team wants to win. Some are more committed to winning because they know that will fill seats. Others are committed to money, hoping that full seats will help contribute to a winner.

    This is a big resin why the Mets, CWS, Padres, Braves, Phillies sip. They tried to hang on too long without adapting well on the fly, as well as longer-term. Clubs like Yanks, Bos, Cubs, LA, Hou either saw the writing & made tough short-term choices for longer term benefit, and/or drafted really well & avoided quick fixes & band-aid remedies. Now those teams have a solid offensive, pitching & defensive core that can take on risky and/or spare parts players as complimentary additions...not starters.
    To be honest I don't think I've seen this type of balance in your posts in the past. My opinion is that it adds to conversation to recognize both sides to a situation. I agree with you completely that it should be time for a this team to be rebuilding. I've said that throughout the off-season. There is a corporate "reality" that I think the new management has been extra careful protecting, although I'm not certain they need to as much as they are. It is reasonable to say fans want to watch a winning product. At some point though, fans reach the point where watching Vlad Jr. will become more excited than watching Donaldson. I think management is being cautious about how quickly fans are getting there. I also think they are intentionally delaying a clock as it is a widespread MLB strategy to maximum the asset of prospects.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    28,242
    Quote Originally Posted by passengershawn View Post
    I agree it was short-sighted & probably selfish trades from AA that brought the '15/16 frenzy. If you recall, I was not a big AA fan either because he whiffed way more than he made solid contact. However, he was very strategic & resourceful...I don't see that with Shapkins. They obviously weren't going to come here, assess the issue & announce a rebuild to the masses...I get that. I do think they mismanaged resources on unnecessary additions, and neglected improving the BP, especially the left side. Pretty much every piece they've brought in were 'flyers', which none really panned out except for Grilli in '16.

    What I can't stand is them trying to convince us that this current team can be competitive, when all they do is bring in spare parts. They may have lost huge leverage in any potential JD trade by not getting full value in the offseason, particularly if there's lingering health issues.

    Everyone knows that EVERYTHING has to play out in an ideal situation for this team to have a shot @ 85+ wins, let alone that the prospect of that happening is probably less than 10%. So why hang on for 1 more run? We both know why...to dupe the fans so they can fill seats. And that will ALWAYS be the mandate of corporate yes men like Shapiro. Every team needs/wants to make money, and every team wants to win. Some are more committed to winning because they know that will fill seats. Others are committed to money, hoping that full seats will help contribute to a winner.

    This is a big resin why the Mets, CWS, Padres, Braves, Phillies sip. They tried to hang on too long without adapting well on the fly, as well as longer-term. Clubs like Yanks, Bos, Cubs, LA, Hou either saw the writing & made tough short-term choices for longer term benefit, and/or drafted really well & avoided quick fixes & band-aid remedies. Now those teams have a solid offensive, pitching & defensive core that can take on risky and/or spare parts players as complimentary additions...not starters.
    Despite not having a shut down lefty in the pen the past two years the bullpen has been fine overall. It's been 6th in WAR over the16 and 17 seasons. They trail NY and Boston over that time period which sucks, but the pen hasn't been the problem.
    I think this team can be competitive. There's other baseball people who I respect that think this team wins the wildcard. Considering how many bad players the team had last year adding average type players can make a difference. I don't hate the approach. I wish they would have aimed a bit higher, but they didnt throw out any long term deals either. If we assume your scenario plays out and the team isn't good enough this team has enough good players that you can sell off and get pieces back. With their approach they at least added potential pieces they can sell off at the deadline. Besides not everyone can tank. Other teams have a head start. I don't think it's a bad approach to give the team a chance at the start of the season.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    28,242
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    I agree with Sanchez but I thought Estrada was a good call to leave in. He was pitching well and only at around 80 pitches I believe.
    He was walking more guys than striking out. It's not the pitch count as much as the third time through the order.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Rogers Centre
    Posts
    17,512
    Quote Originally Posted by passengershawn View Post
    What a hypocrite you are pal...poor little Reed & Co. can't deal with reality, and people who don't agree with you...boo hoo!

    I've stated my opinions, and for 95% of the time have refrained from respondingto personal baits & attacks. Mike & I have taken a beating over the past couple years for calling out the incompetence of Shapkins, while guys like you run to their defense in your rose colored glass world. Shapkins have done NOTHING to improve the roster the past 2+ seasons, but we're apparently idiots for noticing it. We've both offered suggestions (Mike articulates plausible solutions better than I), but you always have a reason to diss us & support Shapkins...which is your right & prerogative...as is our opinions.

    It's a fan forum, and passionate fans support, cheer, rant, vent, and recycle & start the process again. Robots & company men tow the line all year.

    If your goal to moderate is so you can ban us, then this forum is already dead.
    I've actually started to ask you to give solutions to all of your issues you have with Shapkins. In the other thread you said they failed to capitalize on acquiring a lefty in the off-season which you claimed was "the easiest piece to acquire". After that I asked you two separate times to give an example of who you would've liked to see them get and you came up with nothing. Just more baiting because that's all you can do.

    At least bomber would offer solutions while you and mike just run around with your eyes closed saying everything sucks. Offer solutions instead of trolling actual Jays fans and when people ask you for solutions don't run away like a coward. I'm still waiting to see which left handed reliever you would've liked them to get and how.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Rogers Centre
    Posts
    17,512
    Excited to see Stroman pitch too. So far I've liked what I've seen from Grichuk. I expected much more of a free swinger.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Mell413 View Post
    He was walking more guys than striking out. It's not the pitch count as much as the third time through the order.
    He also just got through the heart of the line up the inning before. Either way it worked out and Iím glad Estrada got through 7 pretty solid innings.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Rogers Centre
    Posts
    17,512
    We really needed to stop their momentum too.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    3,986
    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Dude, I hate to be rude, but I think my new name for you will be "negative nancy". (Since Pelfrey already has Debby Downer taken the way he brings the mood down in this forum on a daily basis).

    What do you mean everyone knows "EVERYTHING" has to go right to win 86 games? Do you speak for everyone now? No, you don't. I don't think you even speak for the majority ffs. So please keep those kind of "everyone thinks like me"type of comments to yourself and your haterade drinking buddies.

    I personally don't know (or even think) that at all. Gimme a healthy JD, Sanchez and Martin again and I think this team has more like a 96 win type of potential with their pitching staff and defense. They have 4 starters with legit 20+ win "potential". So if everything goes right their potential is a lot higher than 86.

    That being said, even 96 wins likely doesn't win this division this year. The way the AL is shaping up there's about 6 really good teams, so one of them is going to miss the playoffs.


    Here's a question....Would everyone hate Shapkins for not selling at the deadline if they end up winning 90+ games this year but get unlucky and still miss the playoffs? I know I wouldn't blame them for trying to get back into the post season again after watching so many horrible seasons between 93 and 2015. Going to the playoffs in 3 out of 4 seasons will help us in the off season when trying to recruit new talent.
    That's a good point. I'm just not 100% confident in Shapiro's "ability" to sign free agents (Swisher, Bourne, Morales come to mind - but Happ also turned out to be a good signing as well). His M.O. appears to be building from within. If he has success it is for trading established players for prospects that produce at the big league.

    https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/galler...-trades-083115

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,308
    I think overall Shapiro has done good signing and trading for depth pieces trades like Solarte, Liriano and signings like Happ and Joe Smith. Itís just the big trades and signings we havenít seen but at the same time was the team built to do those types of trades or signings? Just imagine if we signed Jose and Price to the contracts they wanted here. Even EE would of been another all bat no D type.

    All teams want to be the Astros a team that built through the farm and then spend wisely when the time was right.

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