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  1. #31
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    Nov 2007
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    midwest
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    This is a great deal for both sides. I think it'll be a steal for the Phils, but the kid is making at least 24 mil. I mean his future is set even if he doesn't "pan out" he still gets paid. And if he does turn out to be even average, that's a steal for the Phils.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  2. #32
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    Jan 2007
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    Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Seems pretty simple. Player is set for life financially even if they are a complete bust. Not everyone needs hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to consider themselves a success.
    That's obvious and I agree that not everyone needs that money. But there are more levels to this and the player's association can't be happy with these deals.

    We're coming off what they already consider a terrible off season for older players. Then, these teams respond by locking guys up for ridiculously cheap amounts for long term, taking all of their prime years. Yeah, Kingery gets paid, but that whole deal is less than 2 years value of his prime as a 3 WAR player now. Forget about the inflation that will happen in the next 6 years. Then the club options are for dirt cheap, or very cheap buyouts. Of course the Phils are gonna do that deal, there's virtually no risk for them.

    If I'm a Phils fan, I'm ecstatic about the deal.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    midwest
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    30,137
    Some dudes just want to play ball and have future security.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    94,285
    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    The money lost in paying on projected performance will assuredly be less than paying on past performances.
    Yup


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    2,763
    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    The money lost in paying on projected performance will assuredly be less than paying on past performances.
    It will be interesting to see where he ranks on money paid over the next 6 years for the current top 100 prospects.

    I would like this deal better if at least some of the options were player/team. Actually, Iíd like to see the first option be player/team so that either could bail if it was clearly bad for either party.

  6. #36
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    It will be interesting to see where he ranks on money paid over the next 6 years for the current top 100 prospects.

    I would like this deal better if at least some of the options were player/team. Actually, Iíd like to see the first option be player/team so that either could bail if it was clearly bad for either party.
    I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly but the 3 option years are club options so the club can bail pretty easily. At worst, they pay him $25 over 6 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  7. #37
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly but the 3 option years are club options so the club can bail pretty easily. At worst, they pay him $25 over 6 years.
    I wish the player had the same option, would be a reasonable contract if both parties had an out after 6 years.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    I wish the player had the same option, would be a reasonable contract if both parties had an out after 6 years.
    Oh I gotcha. I thought you meant you wish it was one or the other (in which case it is) but I see you mean you wish it was a mutual option. This is definitely a deal that favors the club more because it's such a cheap deal relative to what a prospect could potentially get and even if he busts the money's basically a drop in the bucket.

    The money is so little that the team could even cut him during the option years and not be effected that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  9. #39
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    Jan 2007
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    Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Oh I gotcha. I thought you meant you wish it was one or the other (in which case it is) but I see you mean you wish it was a mutual option. This is definitely a deal that favors the club more because it's such a cheap deal relative to what a prospect could potentially get and even if he busts the money's basically a drop in the bucket.

    The money is so little that the team could even cut him during the option years and not be effected that much.
    That's right and all the buyouts are $1m or less.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    2,763
    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Oh I gotcha. I thought you meant you wish it was one or the other (in which case it is) but I see you mean you wish it was a mutual option. This is definitely a deal that favors the club more because it's such a cheap deal relative to what a prospect could potentially get and even if he busts the money's basically a drop in the bucket.

    The money is so little that the team could even cut him during the option years and not be effected that much.
    Thatís why I donít like this deal. I get it if the player wants to take sure money over the risk/reward of playing for a FA contract but this is too flexible for the team and not flexible enough for the player in my opinion.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    13,059
    Wish I had a job where there was little flexibility for me but I was still guaranteed $25 mill

  12. #42
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    Feb 2005
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    South Dakota
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Nut Kruk View Post
    Wish I had a job where there was little flexibility for me but I was still guaranteed $25 mill
    minimum requirement is two nuts
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  13. #43
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    Feb 2010
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    Should have been a better baseball player.

  14. #44
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    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    Thatís why I donít like this deal. I get it if the player wants to take sure money over the risk/reward of playing for a FA contract but this is too flexible for the team and not flexible enough for the player in my opinion.
    Agreed, but that's looking at this in a vacuum.

    This could be Kingery's only real shot at life changing money. He could have major injuries, regress, never pan out/whatever, and just never be good enough.

    The issue for the young players, and the entire reason they take these deals is because they will make life changing money, no matter what. That's the carrot the organization can dangle

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    I get that and honestly donít know what I would do in a similar situation. But deals like this are going to make the percentage of profits made to move in favor of the team and away from the players. And I do expect teams to make more of these deals. Both teams are mitigating risk with these deals, players taking a good but not great payday because they might get hurt or not live up to their potential and teams giving good money before a players proven anything hoping to get great play for good money.

    Make that first option a mutual one and I think this deal is fair.
    Last edited by GasMan; 04-01-2018 at 07:01 AM.

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