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View Poll Results: Which of the remaining players was best at their peak?

Voters
12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Julius Erving

    1 8.33%
  • David Robinson

    4 33.33%
  • Chris Paul

    2 16.67%
  • Bill Russell

    0 0%
  • Karl Malone

    5 41.67%
  • Patrick Ewing

    0 0%
  • Jason Kidd

    0 0%
  • Steve Nash

    0 0%
  • Grant Hill

    0 0%
  • Rick Barry

    0 0%
  • Kevin McHale

    0 0%
  • Kawhi Leonard

    0 0%
  • James Harden

    0 0%
  • Isiah Thomas

    0 0%
  • Gary Payton

    0 0%
  • Another Player (Please Specify)

    0 0%
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Results 46 to 60 of 92
  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Then how come John Stockton's career season HIGH in usage percentage is still lower than Chris Paul's career season LOW in usage percentage?
    What's so funny? Of course John will have a lower USG% - he wasn't scoring the ball as much as CP3. Pass-first PG's are always going to have a low USG%. Check Rondo/Kidd's USG% if you want evidence for it. Why? Because the formula for it doesn't account for ball domination but simply, ball usage in terms of being the direct beneficiary of using the ball. I think the confusion comes from you using the advanced statistic incorrectly.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Why not? He had a season where he averaged 17ppg / 15 apg / 3 spg all-nba defensive team and he didn't even shoot 1 three point shot per game. He is a career 38.4% shooter from 3pt. He and Mark Price just played in the wrong era. He is the ultimate table setter. Would love to have him on my team. Plus he's way more clutch than Chris Paul.
    I'm not sure Stockton would be better than CP3 but I agree, he and particularly Mark Price were from the wrong era and would be way better playing today. I imagine Mark Price could have had a Steve Nash level of impact in today's era (and even Steve Nash wasn't playing in the era when it was acceptable to hoist 8 3's a game or else he'd likely be even more efficient).

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I'm not sure Stockton would be better than CP3 but I agree, he and particularly Mark Price were from the wrong era and would be way better playing today. I imagine Mark Price could have had a Steve Nash level of impact in today's era (and even Steve Nash wasn't playing in the era when it was acceptable to hoist 8 3's a game or else he'd likely be even more efficient).
    I feel Stockton is a bit more of the Billups mold then today’s fast break/break people down off the dribble point guards. Price on the other hand was the best in pick and roll during his era and was a heck of shooter off the dribble. I definitely get the Nash comparison there


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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Did Curry close? I thought he lost in the finals. Anywho, I care and so should you. All these guys are great players. If you are comparing an MVP to guy who is the 7th or 8th man you can just look at numbers and awards. The numbers tell me D Rob was better then a lot of players. If I’m comparing him to another great player I have go deeper though. So should you. All you are doing is spouting trivia.


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    Spout trivia? Be serious. I'm the only one actually trying to bring up their games. I'm trying to compare their actual skills and how it would be easier to build around D-Rob because he is an equally talented player who plays center and is a better defender than Malone. I think he would be the perfect athletic fast center for the modern game. You guys are the ones who wants to use playoff games from 1994 where Sean Elliot and Nugele Knight shot a combined 35% and were D-Rob's leading secondary scorers at 10ppg and 9ppg.


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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    What's so funny? Of course John will have a lower USG% - he wasn't scoring the ball as much as CP3. Pass-first PG's are always going to have a low USG%. Check Rondo/Kidd's USG% if you want evidence for it. Why? Because the formula for it doesn't account for ball domination but simply, ball usage in terms of being the direct beneficiary of using the ball. I think the confusion comes from you using the advanced statistic incorrectly.
    The confusion is coming from you saying Chris Paul isn't ball dominant when he's almost Melo like in his desire to slow the game down to a crawl and orchestra in the half-court where he can dribble and do everything.


    Kristaps Porzingis
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  6. #51
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    Gonna take my time reading that brick. Be back tomorrow

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I'm not sure Stockton would be better than CP3 but I agree, he and particularly Mark Price were from the wrong era and would be way better playing today. I imagine Mark Price could have had a Steve Nash level of impact in today's era (and even Steve Nash wasn't playing in the era when it was acceptable to hoist 8 3's a game or else he'd likely be even more efficient).
    I'm not sure why Stockton is being so doubted. He would play every game. Lead the league in assists every year. Shoot over 50% from the field. Shoot over 40% from 3pt. Shoot low 80's from FT. Lead the league in steals. Make all-defensive team. Like what else did you want him to do? Is 17ppg on 12 shots that much worse than 22ppg on 16 shots?


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  8. #53
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    Best Player of All-Time At Their Peak (#22)

    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Spout trivia? Be serious. I'm the only one actually trying to bring up their games. I'm trying to compare their actual skills and how it would be easier to build around D-Rob because he is an equally talented player who plays center and is a better defender than Malone. I think he would be the perfect athletic fast center for the modern game. You guys are the ones who wants to use playoff games from 1994 where Sean Elliot and Nugele Knight shot a combined 35% and were D-Rob's leading secondary scorers at 10ppg and 9ppg.
    Who fits the modern game better wasn’t the question though. Nor was who do you think was easier to build around. Here we have 2 players that played in the same era. Both were MVP level at there peak. One out performed the other when they played head to head in big games. One largely maintained his production in the post season while the other did not. Malone was built like a linebacker bc of when he played. D Rob would have been better if he could have put on some mass back then. I’m comparing real things you are comparing imaginary ones


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I'm not sure why Stockton is being so doubted. He would play every game. Lead the league in assists every year. Shoot over 50% from the field. Shoot over 40% from 3pt. Shoot low 80's from FT. Lead the league in steals. Make all-defensive team. Like what else did you want him to do? Is 17ppg on 12 shots that much worse than 22ppg on 16 shots?
    I think Stockton is amazing, but CP3 put up numbers that surpass Magic in a handful of ways and in a tougher defensive era arguably. So would you buy Stockton having arguably better seasons than thw GOAT PG?



  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I feel like that is the purpose of the thread?



    I would take David Robinson first. I'm assuming we would be drafting them for now and I think it's easier to build around D-Rob for the reasons I have mentioned.
    I get ya. It a flawed question imo then. I mean something that was a minus for D Rob when he played IMO is actually a plus for him now. That makes no sense


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    Last edited by ewing; 03-13-2018 at 06:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Who fits the modern game better wasn’t the question though. Nor was who do you think was easier to build around. Here we have 2 players that played in the same era. Both were MVP level at there peak. One out performed the other when they played head to head in big games. One largely maintained his production in the post season while the other did not. Malone was built like a linebacker bc of when he played. D Rob would have been better if he could have put on some mass back then. I’m comparing real things you are comparing imaginary ones
    I feel like that is the purpose of the thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    This is NOT a list that measures a players career or accolades, it is simply a list of, if all the players were in their peak/in their prime/at their best/etc. and all in a draft, who would you take first on your team.
    I would take David Robinson first. I'm assuming we would be drafting them for now and I think it's easier to build around D-Rob for the reasons I have mentioned.


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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So we do a “top 25 greatest players of all-time list” here on PSD, but I wanted to do a best, not greatest list.

    What is the difference?

    This is NOT a list that measures a players career or accolades, it is simply a list of, if all the players were in their peak/in their prime/at their best/etc. and all in a draft, who would you take first on your team.

    Current List

    1. Michael Jordan
    2. LeBron James
    T3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    T3. Wilt Chamberlain
    5. Shaquille O’Neal
    6. Magic Johnson
    7. Larry Bird
    8. Hakeem Olajuwon
    9. Tim Duncan
    10. Kobe Bryant
    11. Steph Curry
    12. Moses Malone
    13. Tracy McGrady
    14. Bill Walton
    15. Kevin Durant
    16. Jerry West
    17. Dwyane Wade
    18. Oscar Robertson
    19. Kevin Garnett
    20. Dirk Nowitzki
    21. Charles Barkley
    Quote Originally Posted by Shammyguy3 View Post
    I think Stockton is amazing, but CP3 put up numbers that surpass Magic in a handful of ways and in a tougher defensive era arguably. So would you buy Stockton having arguably better seasons than thw GOAT PG?
    Magic was a better passer, scorer, and more efficient. Plus he just dominated games offensively. Stockton hit some clutch shots but he was never a dominant scorer.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    The confusion is coming from you saying Chris Paul isn't ball dominant when he's almost Melo like in his desire to slow the game down to a crawl and orchestra in the half-court where he can dribble and do everything.
    Confusion comes from you using USG% rate to explain ball dominance when that is clearly not what USG% is measuring. I never said CP3 wasn't ball-dominant. I said Stockton had his hand on the ball on every possession and when you're feeding it to guys like Karl Malone, it's not impossible to inflate APG numbers. That never indicates who the better passer is. Rondo is a prime example of that. He's a very good passer but not elite. Dude just racks up assists because the ball runs through him on every play. Comparing CP3 to Melo in any aspect is hilarious. CP3 is also a very capable scorer and was often relied on to be the best scorer on his team. Stockton wasn't. So you're confusing CP3 being an elite level scorer efficiency wise as "Melo-like." CP3 is trying to break down a defense while Melo plays ISO. Not sure why you think they are worthy of comparison.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt:32223192
    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    The confusion is coming from you saying Chris Paul isn't ball dominant when he's almost Melo like in his desire to slow the game down to a crawl and orchestra in the half-court where he can dribble and do everything.
    Confusion comes from you using USG% rate to explain ball dominance when that is clearly not what USG% is measuring. I never said CP3 wasn't ball-dominant. I said Stockton had his hand on the ball on every possession and when you're feeding it to guys like Karl Malone, it's not impossible to inflate APG numbers. That never indicates who the better passer is. Rondo is a prime example of that. He's a very good passer but not elite. Dude just racks up assists because the ball runs through him on every play. Comparing CP3 to Melo in any aspect is hilarious. CP3 is also a very capable scorer and was often relied on to be the best scorer on his team. Stockton wasn't. So you're confusing CP3 being an elite level scorer efficiency wise as "Melo-like." CP3 is trying to break down a defense while Melo plays ISO. Not sure why you think they are worthy of comparison.
    So John Stockton is an overrated passer with inflated stats? I have heard it all now.

    The Melo comment makes sense to anyone who knows CP3s history in New Orleans. At his peak his teams were slooow. It was partially a joke calling him "Melo-like" bc you would think a dynamic point guard talent like Paul would play a faster tempo ala Nash instead of favoring the half-court game. Similar to how my former favorite player Carmelo Anthony should have preferred playing a faster pace like the Olympics but he preferred pounding the ball in the half court. No comparison of actual talent. Cp3 >>>>> Melo


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    So John Stockton is an overrated passer with inflated stats? I have heard it all now.

    The Melo comment makes sense to anyone who knows CP3s history in New Orleans. At his peak his teams were slooow. It was partially a joke calling him "Melo-like" bc you would think a dynamic point guard talent like Paul would play a faster tempo ala Nash instead of favoring the half-court game. Similar to how my former favorite player Carmelo Anthony should have preferred playing a faster pace like the Olympics but he preferred pounding the ball in the half court. No comparison of actual talent. Cp3 >>>>> Melo
    You're just using strawman arguments now. You used USG% incorrectly. End of story.

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