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  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    Lavy sat Bob after 1 bad playoff game and had Zac Rinaldo start in a playoff game.

    All coaches are idiots to an extent.
    didn't the flyers change goalies 5 times in a 6 game series that year?
    "2008 WORLD ****ING CHAMPIONS"

  2. #317
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    Yeah. Lavi can kick rocks at well. You would think it would be a fairly easy concept to play your best players, but I guess not.

  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    Lavy sat Bob after 1 bad playoff game and had Zac Rinaldo start in a playoff game.

    All coaches are idiots to an extent.
    ...that was just that one playoffs...Hak has been hacking us up for the past season and a half at least...........Lavy got us to a cup finals with less talent than we have right now....far less...

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    ...that was just that one playoffs...Hak has been hacking us up for the past season and a half at least...........Lavy got us to a cup finals with less talent than we have right now....far less...
    Uhhhhh....no. Thatís just false lol. That team was superior to this team. On paper and by advanced metrics. Goaltending is better on this team. Thatís about it.

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    Uhhhhh....no. Thatís just false lol. That team was superior to this team. On paper and by advanced metrics. Goaltending is better on this team. Thatís about it.
    How soon people.forget that Giroux and JVR were 3rd line players on that team 😂

  6. #321
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    Or that Chris pronger was the best dman in the league. First ballot all of famer. Arguably one of the best of all time.

  7. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    Or that Chris pronger was the best dman in the league. First ballot all of famer. Arguably one of the best of all time.
    I don't think it's really arguable...Pronger was one of the best to ever play the game. He dominated a game from the blue line in a way that few defensemen ever have, and he fundamentally changed the way defensemen ever have.

    Oh, and Kimmo Timonen was there too. You know, just a top pairing defensemen who could log 25+ minutes of ice time a game.

  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    I don't think it's really arguable...Pronger was one of the best to ever play the game. He dominated a game from the blue line in a way that few defensemen ever have, and he fundamentally changed the way defensemen ever have.

    Oh, and Kimmo Timonen was there too. You know, just a top pairing defensemen who could log 25+ minutes of ice time a game.
    Yes, I typoed. Supposed to read, arguably top 5 dman of all time.

    Either way, we agree.

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    Yes, I typoed. Supposed to read, arguably top 5 dman of all time.

    Either way, we agree.
    Talent is the natural ability of the team. Several players were playing over their heads in that series, due in large part to good coaching (see Leino). Patrick has the TALENT to be the second best player on this team. Provorov has the TALENT to be a notch below Pronger. Ghost is showing the talent to be better than Kimmo. Sanheim has the TALENT to make him way better than any of Carole, Coburn, Parent, or whoever our 6th and 7th D were. TK has the TALENT to be better than or equal to Danny Briere. Simmons has more talent in his balls than Hartnell lol (Mostly due to skating). Richards and Carter, or Couts and Jake...hmmm...JVR had talent but it was a struggle at first with him. Asham, Powe, Lappy, and Betts or (better options not utilized) Vecchionne, Laughton, Weal, Read...Flip should not be utilized...Lehtera or Weiss either. Amac...Manning...etc...

    The issue is utilization and optimization. Lavy optimized through utilization, but Hak fails to do so. Before you chop my head off for saying that, I hope you understand what Iím saying.

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    Talent is the natural ability of the team. Several players were playing over their heads in that series, due in large part to good coaching (see Leino). Patrick has the TALENT to be the second best player on this team. Provorov has the TALENT to be a notch below Pronger. Ghost is showing the talent to be better than Kimmo. Sanheim has the TALENT to make him way better than any of Carole, Coburn, Parent, or whoever our 6th and 7th D were. TK has the TALENT to be better than or equal to Danny Briere. Simmons has more talent in his balls than Hartnell lol (Mostly due to skating). Richards and Carter, or Couts and Jake...hmmm...JVR had talent but it was a struggle at first with him. Asham, Powe, Lappy, and Betts or (better options not utilized) Vecchionne, Laughton, Weal, Read...Flip should not be utilized...Lehtera or Weiss either. Amac...Manning...etc...

    The issue is utilization and optimization. Lavy optimized through utilization, but Hak fails to do so. Before you chop my head off for saying that, I hope you understand what Iím saying.

    I do. I still disagree. Yes, Lavy utilized his players better, but that team was still better.


    Patrick has the potential to be the 2nd best player on this team, but he's not right now. Konecny has the potential to be better than Danny Briere, but he's not right now. Sanheim has the potential to be better than Coburn, but he isn't right now. Carter got **** on while he was here, but he was a damn good player that frankly may not have been fully utilized to his ability. Simmonds is not better now than Hartnell was in '09, that's a total misrepresentation of how good Scott Hartnell was at that time.


    Yes, if AMac and Manning were used like they should, the Flyers would be better off. I don't disagree with that. Same for Filppula.


    But that team was better in just about every facet. PP, PK, 5v5 were all better on that team.



    It's not a vacuum. You can't just look at names on a piece of paper and make claims. That team was a lot more talented than I think people realize. They had a coach who didn't utilize them well to start the year (Stevens) and then got a coach who did (Lavy). Yes, that obviously played a role. But at the end of the day, that team was good. They got luck along the way but that team was better than this team.



    I do think this team has players on it that have the potential to be better in the following years. But top to bottom, on the whole, that team was superior.

    2018 SUPER BOWL CHAMPION PHILADELPHIA EAGLES

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    I do. I still disagree. Yes, Lavy utilized his players better, but that team was still better.


    Patrick has the potential to be the 2nd best player on this team, but he's not right now. Konecny has the potential to be better than Danny Briere, but he's not right now. Sanheim has the potential to be better than Coburn, but he isn't right now. Carter got **** on while he was here, but he was a damn good player that frankly may not have been fully utilized to his ability. Simmonds is not better now than Hartnell was in '09, that's a total misrepresentation of how good Scott Hartnell was at that time.


    Yes, if AMac and Manning were used like they should, the Flyers would be better off. I don't disagree with that. Same for Filppula.


    But that team was better in just about every facet. PP, PK, 5v5 were all better on that team.



    It's not a vacuum. You can't just look at names on a piece of paper and make claims. That team was a lot more talented than I think people realize. They had a coach who didn't utilize them well to start the year (Stevens) and then got a coach who did (Lavy). Yes, that obviously played a role. But at the end of the day, that team was good. They got luck along the way but that team was better than this team.



    I do think this team has players on it that have the potential to be better in the following years. But top to bottom, on the whole, that team was superior.
    Talent is not a right now thing. On the way to work, but go back to what I originally said...I didnít say the team was better, I said it has more TALENT.

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    Talent is not a right now thing. On the way to work, but go back to what I originally said...I didnít say the team was better, I said it has more TALENT.

    Ok....let's go with that for the sake of the argument. If they're more talented, but not better, does that matter?


    Talent eventually has to lead to results in some fashion, and while I do think this team isn't fully optimized, they still wouldn't go from what they are now to what the '09-10 team was IMO.


    That team was better. That's ultimately what counts, and I don't think Lavy takes this current roster and makes them a Cup contender like he did with the '09-10 team.

    2018 SUPER BOWL CHAMPION PHILADELPHIA EAGLES

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    Ok....let's go with that for the sake of the argument. If they're more talented, but not better, does that matter?


    Talent eventually has to lead to results in some fashion, and while I do think this team isn't fully optimized, they still wouldn't go from what they are now to what the '09-10 team was IMO.


    That team was better. That's ultimately what counts, and I don't think Lavy takes this current roster and makes them a Cup contender like he did with the '09-10 team.
    Usually I don't debate in here because people take it too personal (or used to), but I feel as though you don't so I will continue.

    Read my original comment that brought up this discussion: "...that was just that one playoffs...Hak has been hacking us up for the past season and a half at least...........Lavy got us to a cup finals with less talent than we have right now....far less..."

    Now I agree, that I should have been more clear, but was posting a mere thought. This is meant to insinuate that Hak being here for a longterm plan is a terrible idea. Lavy would utilize the talents on this team better (ie Sanheim would be playing more time, Flip would be playing probably, but not almost 18 minutes per game and playing 2nd PP, Lehtera probably wouldn't have played as much, etc.). It's strictly a speculative comment. My statement about him making the cup finals with less talent is saying that with that same team, Hak would have Hak'ed it. On the other hand, with this team, Lavy would have us a in a steadier pace...possibly at the top of our division (since it's only a couple wins more out of reach).

    Maybe that makes me seem less foolish for my comment. I whole heartedly know that the 2010 team would kick this team's butt up and down the ice, but I feel as though this team in five years (taking prospects into account) could beat that 2010 team, IF HANDLED PROPERLY.

    I honestly don't know how to better explain what I'm meaning. I do agree with you saying that 2010 Flyers is better than 2018 Flyers, but I think that Hak is screwing this team out of being better.

  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    Ok....let's go with that for the sake of the argument. If they're more talented, but not better, does that matter?


    Talent eventually has to lead to results in some fashion, and while I do think this team isn't fully optimized, they still wouldn't go from what they are now to what the '09-10 team was IMO.


    That team was better. That's ultimately what counts, and I don't think Lavy takes this current roster and makes them a Cup contender like he did with the '09-10 team.
    I think they could be close or better...But that is my opinion.

  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    Usually I don't debate in here because people take it too personal (or used to), but I feel as though you don't so I will continue.

    Read my original comment that brought up this discussion: "...that was just that one playoffs...Hak has been hacking us up for the past season and a half at least...........Lavy got us to a cup finals with less talent than we have right now....far less..."

    Now I agree, that I should have been more clear, but was posting a mere thought. This is meant to insinuate that Hak being here for a longterm plan is a terrible idea. Lavy would utilize the talents on this team better (ie Sanheim would be playing more time, Flip would be playing probably, but not almost 18 minutes per game and playing 2nd PP, Lehtera probably wouldn't have played as much, etc.). It's strictly a speculative comment. My statement about him making the cup finals with less talent is saying that with that same team, Hak would have Hak'ed it. On the other hand, with this team, Lavy would have us a in a steadier pace...possibly at the top of our division (since it's only a couple wins more out of reach).

    Maybe that makes me seem less foolish for my comment. I whole heartedly know that the 2010 team would kick this team's butt up and down the ice, but I feel as though this team in five years (taking prospects into account) could beat that 2010 team, IF HANDLED PROPERLY.

    I honestly don't know how to better explain what I'm meaning. I do agree with you saying that 2010 Flyers is better than 2018 Flyers, but I think that Hak is screwing this team out of being better.

    I agree that Hak has this team worse than they would be, but I don't think the difference is drastic.


    And let's not have revisionist history. Remember, Lavy is the same guy that glued guys like Talbot, Rinaldo and Knuble to Couturier's wings, because he didn't believe Couturier was anything more than a shutdown guy or capable of a bigger role. His goalie handling wasn't much better than Hakstol. Hakstol runs goalies into the ground; Lavy couldn't make up his mind over who he wants from game to game. Aaron freaking Asham was on the 3rd line with Giroux and JVR.


    There's a lot of assumptions in your argument about how Lavy would use this roster.

    2018 SUPER BOWL CHAMPION PHILADELPHIA EAGLES

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