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Thread: Wolves @ Kings!

  1. #1
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    Wolves @ Kings!

    - Butler!

  2. #2
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    we should kill them, but it's a road game. Minus Butler, the last 19 games are a toss up. We are essentially tied for the 3rd seed, while at the same time 3.5 games from missing the playoffs.

    Any guesses to our finish? I will say we finish 45-37, and get the 8th seed.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  3. #3
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    Could probably say this about every game from here on in, but we really need to win this one - Go Wolves!

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    Good win. I was actually fairly impressed by Teague and wiggins. Both came out and played very aggressively. Teague with pushing the pace and wiggins driving. Heck he even seemed engaged on defense. I'm actually ok with losing butler for a short period of time if it forces Teague and wiggins to have to step up. Same with towns. If he can step up and be the true leader on this team that we know he is capable of being our team will only get stronger. Our ball movement was great. Sometimes I wonder if we don't sit around and watch Butler just a bit too often. I'm not saying hes not good but maybe he more so has the Russell westbrook approach where everyone around him doesn't necessarily become more productive.

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    In the last 2 games Wiggins has played 72 minutes and grabbed a total of 3 rebounds! How can he be 6' 9'' tall with a crazy vertical and sprawling wingspan, but only get 3 rebounds in 72 minutes of play? With Butler out we need Wiggy to contribute in other ways, but I am not holding my breath.

    Also, 10 assists in his last 10 games? That is also an example of why Wiggins is dubbed, The Hollow Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DW3421 View Post
    In the last 2 games Wiggins has played 72 minutes and grabbed a total of 3 rebounds! How can he be 6' 9'' tall with a crazy vertical and sprawling wingspan, but only get 3 rebounds in 72 minutes of play? With Butler out we need Wiggy to contribute in other ways, but I am not holding my breath.

    Also, 10 assists in his last 10 games? That is also an example of why Wiggins is dubbed, The Hollow Man.
    my brother was in town this past weekend, and we went to the Bulls game. He probably *****ed more about Wiggins lack of involvement in loose balls and rebounds in the 3 hours we were there than I have in 3 years haha. He is right too. Wiggins literally runs away from in traffic rebounds. It's maddening.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    my brother was in town this past weekend, and we went to the Bulls game. He probably *****ed more about Wiggins lack of involvement in loose balls and rebounds in the 3 hours we were there than I have in 3 years haha. He is right too. Wiggins literally runs away from in traffic rebounds. It's maddening.
    We know that he is poor at those items. However, its nice to actually see him being aggressive with Butler being out. So many times this season hes stood and watched. At least now he looks engaged offensively

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    We know that he is poor at those items. However, its nice to actually see him being aggressive with Butler being out. So many times this season hes stood and watched. At least now he looks engaged offensively
    He looked aggressive prior to Butler. But he has become a statue since. He needs to understand that in order to still contribute, it needs to be in the non scoring columns. We know he can put up 20 a game. What else?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    He looked aggressive prior to Butler. But he has become a statue since. He needs to understand that in order to still contribute, it needs to be in the non scoring columns. We know he can put up 20 a game. What else?
    I don't honestly think he was aggressive with butler around. Butler held the ball a lot on offense. Not saying he's bad or that he isn't our star. Just simply stating that the last couple of games with Teague actually handling the point and pushing the pace we have looked like a more competent team. Again not saying that is reflected in stats but as far as actual ball movement is concerned I thought they looked better. Teague pushing the pace and Wiggins driving may cause this team to at least hold the fort down until butler gets back. Maybe we learn to play with butler rather then it being ISO ball and we become a better offensive team down the road. I like it when we run(something we really lacked before butler was injured).

    As far as Wiggins, we know your view on him. We know he is not at the level we wish him to be. I'm simply stating that based upon a small sample size that he appears to be a bit more engaged then average. Again this can regress back to the mean fairly quickly with him. It may or may not correlate with butler being out but If he can play more aggressive he might not fill up the stat sheet but he at least will better our team.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twolves88 View Post
    I don't honestly think he was aggressive with butler around. Butler held the ball a lot on offense. Not saying he's bad or that he isn't our star. Just simply stating that the last couple of games with Teague actually handling the point and pushing the pace we have looked like a more competent team. Again not saying that is reflected in stats but as far as actual ball movement is concerned I thought they looked better. Teague pushing the pace and Wiggins driving may cause this team to at least hold the fort down until butler gets back. Maybe we learn to play with butler rather then it being ISO ball and we become a better offensive team down the road. I like it when we run(something we really lacked before butler was injured).

    As far as Wiggins, we know your view on him. We know he is not at the level we wish him to be. I'm simply stating that based upon a small sample size that he appears to be a bit more engaged then average. Again this can regress back to the mean fairly quickly with him. It may or may not correlate with butler being out but If he can play more aggressive he might not fill up the stat sheet but he at least will better our team.
    For what he is about to be paid, being aggressive only when Butler is out is unacceptable is my point. He needs to find ways to contribute without having a high usage.

    Look, we have a coach who likes to use our top player in a ton of isolation. Fine. I don't agree with it, but it's clearly producing a top offense. That being said, it causes stagnation with our other players. We don't get others involved routinely, so when they do get spot play calls, you see them not looking natural. Wiggins had the ball taken out of his hands this year. Teague too (in Thib's defense, he even said he likes how Teague can play off the ball, which he sucks at clearly). If you are going to have a high usage isolation player, you need the right players around him, which we are still trying to figure out.

    Teague is having his worst year since he matured as a player 5-6 years ago. For all sorts of reasons. Wiggins is just annoying because we continue to be sold a bag of goods from this team, coach, players, etc, when the national media and sportwriters are correctly calling him out, as I am. For what he will get paid, it's very frustrating. If Thib's, or our owner, said, "yep, he is a waste of potential so far", I would shut up and say THANK YOU!. But they can't do that..nor should they.

    Defense is still our huge problem. So is our play calling. We can't continue to rely on the factors we do for an efficient offense, it's just not sustainable against GS/Houston, which is where we want to be eventually. It means guys like Wiggins, need to develop a killer 3 ball. He plays 36 mpg, and gets shots. he needs to figure out how to contribute outside an inefficient 20 a game, ala Rudy Gay. The biggest reason I am so hard on him, is we parted ways with a player that is clearly a better fit for the modern NBA, because our front office is still seemingly sold on Wiggins "potential". The Rubio trade yielded a step backwards at the position, and that doesn't mean I want Rubio back, it means it was a stupid move, clearly.

    I get we are in year 1 of this. Things likely get better the next 2 years, especially if we keep Butler. It's just frustrating watching such a waste of talent transpire, and frustrating losing our fan favorite pit bull PG for a guy who just can't find his way here.
    Last edited by Hawkeye15; 02-28-2018 at 09:46 AM.

  11. #11
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    I guess I compare this years Wiggins to the last couple years Wiggins, and I see him trying a little more, which is an improvement. I dont compare Wiggins to what he should be doing with his contract, because everyone knows that will be disappointing. The money part/contract doesnt make any difference to me, that is the FO concern. I compare this year Wolves to the past couple years, and see a huge improvement. To be disappointed with this team compared to last, you must of had some high expectations of this team, much higher then what anyone thought they would be. If JB wouldnt have gotten hurt, this team could of been a 55 win team this year, and we still could be. We are just getting over the hardest part of our schedule. But 50-55 is still very possible.

    This team was never expected to be elite, and compete with GS, or the top teams, maybe in a couple years.
    Now why did the Wolves do that?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4wanderingeyes View Post
    I guess I compare this years Wiggins to the last couple years Wiggins, and I see him trying a little more, which is an improvement. I dont compare Wiggins to what he should be doing with his contract, because everyone knows that will be disappointing. The money part/contract doesnt make any difference to me, that is the FO concern. I compare this year Wolves to the past couple years, and see a huge improvement. To be disappointed with this team compared to last, you must of had some high expectations of this team, much higher then what anyone thought they would be. If JB wouldnt have gotten hurt, this team could of been a 55 win team this year, and we still could be. We are just getting over the hardest part of our schedule. But 50-55 is still very possible.

    This team was never expected to be elite, and compete with GS, or the top teams, maybe in a couple years.
    What improvements in Wiggins do you see? Defensively, he is slightly more of a factor, but he has actually regressed scoring wise (he doesn't get to the line at a high rate anymore, and misses too many FT's anways). He is no better, as an overall player, than he was year 1. Not in my opinion.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...wiggian01.html

    Wiggins is statistically having his worst year. It doesn't mean he is worse than when he was a rookie, it just means, he isn't improving at all.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  13. #13
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    I was referring to defense. With Buttler in the game he isnt needed to be a scorer, so with the offense running through Buttler he wont be needed to take as many shots. Dont get me wrong, I dont think Wiggins contract was smart, or that he will ever live up to it. But as a player I think over the year, he has improved. I know he loses interest and disappears, and hopefully he gets over that. I also liked Lavine better then Wiggins, but that is behind us, and there is nothing we can do about that. As a team we are better then anyone could have imagined this time last year. More then likely if the team stayed as it is for next year, we would just get better, but I am sure we will add more pieces to make us better.
    Now why did the Wolves do that?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4wanderingeyes View Post
    I was referring to defense. With Buttler in the game he isnt needed to be a scorer, so with the offense running through Buttler he wont be needed to take as many shots. Dont get me wrong, I dont think Wiggins contract was smart, or that he will ever live up to it. But as a player I think over the year, he has improved. I know he loses interest and disappears, and hopefully he gets over that. I also liked Lavine better then Wiggins, but that is behind us, and there is nothing we can do about that. As a team we are better then anyone could have imagined this time last year. More then likely if the team stayed as it is for next year, we would just get better, but I am sure we will add more pieces to make us better.
    I mean, I get your point. We didn't pay him haha.

    I just get so frustrated watching elite talent waste it. I guess that is what bugs me most.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I mean, I get your point. We didn't pay him haha.

    I just get so frustrated watching elite talent waste it. I guess that is what bugs me most.
    With Wiggins it is all mental, and I do not suddenly see him turning into a guy with a killer mentality. I could be wrong and I hope I am wrong, but right now he is not giving us enough. Imo, he is barely earning the 7.5 million that he is getting this year, so to me 25 million is crazy. Of the 60 players that start at the wing positions in the NBA, Wiggins would be LUCKY to crack the top 30.

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