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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Geesh Jeffy, you'd think with all the great Cardinal FA signings they'd be top in BP or Rotation
    They are around top 10ish in rotation, middle of the road in bullpen. Not bad, but not top 5.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsbats View Post
    How can we not mention his fip?

    3.9 is extremely high for ace standards . If that's what your threshold is a third of the league starters are aces or thereabouts !
    Sure, then Verlander is right next to him....under your ace standards

    Stroman FIP- year by year
    87
    86
    88

    Verlander
    85
    81
    86

    Cole
    70
    82
    96

    Keuchel
    72
    92
    87

    Fits right in with these 'aces' that you called them.

  3. #18
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    Show me verlanders numbers in Houston including playoffs k thx I appreciate it in advance.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    They are around top 10ish in rotation, middle of the road in bullpen. Not bad, but not top 5.
    What do you think of the triple Hs coming through the system

    https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/c...mp/c-266787954

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    10th in ERA-, adding Verlander and Cole isn't enough, and I don't trust Keuchel (3.79 ERA, 3.83 FIP the last two years).



    Because they had a 92 wRC+ last year, 22nd best in baseball. Adding Martinez is nice, and they have a lot of good young players, but that's going to take a lot to improve upon. Devers and Nunez are clearly facing regressions unless they can change their profiles.



    Side note - it's annoying when fans criticize lists, but don't offer their own for judgement.
    More of a side note hear, but lets not ignore the regression from 2016 and that it is in general a young lineup. Have Martinez now, which adds protection.

    Devers is 21 with 240 PAs, not sure what he will be regressing from, or sure what he will be, other than most likely the other 3Bs we had playing last season.

    Nunez is a bench player once Pedroia comes back which will be sometime in April. Replace Martinez with Ortiz and it is essentially the same lineup as 2016
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsbats View Post
    Show me verlanders numbers in Houston including playoffs k thx I appreciate it in advance.
    It's fun to change the topic, isn't it?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    What do you think of the triple Hs coming through the system

    https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/c...mp/c-266787954
    Organization has a lot of faith in them. They didn't chase a big fish for the pen, and want to see these guys instead.

    Excited of course. Money is on one being very good, hopefully. I personally like Hicks.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by papipapsmanny View Post
    More of a side note hear, but lets not ignore the regression from 2016 and that it is in general a young lineup. Have Martinez now, which adds protection.
    If you remove Ortiz from the 2016 lineup, it's largely the same production. Obviously, all the B's in particular).

    And protection doesn't appear to exist.

    But I understand the optimism. I just don't think it's enough to catapult them into a top 5 right now. Of course, May 1 I may have to change that tune.

    Devers is 21 with 240 PAs, not sure what he will be regressing from, or sure what he will be, other than most likely the other 3Bs we had playing last season.
    His batting profile suggests a lot of regression. Of course, the same could be said of Michael Conforto two years ago. My point? Is that he is incredibly young and talented, but if he continues to hit in the same way as he did last year, a major slump is likely looming (doesn't really change his long term outlook).

    Nunez is a bench player once Pedroia comes back which will be sometime in April. Replace Martinez with Ortiz and it is essentially the same lineup as 2016
    Sure, but I don't think that makes them a 114 wRC+ hitting team again.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    If you remove Ortiz from the 2016 lineup, it's largely the same production. Obviously, all the B's in particular).

    And protection doesn't appear to exist.

    But I understand the optimism. I just don't think it's enough to catapult them into a top 5 right now. Of course, May 1 I may have to change that tune.


    His batting profile suggests a lot of regression. Of course, the same could be said of Michael Conforto two years ago. My point? Is that he is incredibly young and talented, but if he continues to hit in the same way as he did last year, a major slump is likely looming (doesn't really change his long term outlook).



    Sure, but I don't think that makes them a 114 wRC+ hitting team again.
    I'll start with the two Bolds. The sabermetric community can continue to try and deny that (actually they don't a;ll do), but it is fairly clear that there is a certain degree of protection created by players, and it is only natural. Not for the whole lineup, but a 1 spot in the lineup yes.

    Second one, well then what was the point bringing it up. He is going to be in a super utility role.

    I'm not sure why a top 5 offense would be anything surprising to expect when (and you just agreed) roughly the same team in 2016 had the best offense in baseball, and I'd argue now they have better depth than in 2016.

    Astros are clearly the top offense that is about the only offense that overwhelmingly sticks out to me
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by papipapsmanny View Post
    I'll start with the two Bolds. The sabermetric community can continue to try and deny that (actually they don't a;ll do), but it is fairly clear that there is a certain degree of protection created by players, and it is only natural. Not for the whole lineup, but a 1 spot in the lineup yes.
    I do understand that perception, but there is nothing in any data that suggests it. It's actually the contrary. Pitchers appear to pitch guys based on who is in the box, not the on deck circle.

    Second one, well then what was the point bringing it up. He is going to be in a super utility role.
    He is still going to get plenty of PA's. That's all.


    I'm not sure why a top 5 offense would be anything surprising to expect when (and you just agreed) roughly the same team in 2016 had the best offense in baseball, and I'd argue now they have better depth than in 2016.
    I didn't say it would be surprising, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up that way. But their young guys have to hit again like it's 2016, not 2017.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tp13baby View Post
    Lineup
    Astros
    Yankees
    Cubs
    Indians
    Nats

    SP
    Indians
    Nats
    Cubs
    Dodgers
    Astros

    Bullpen
    Yankees
    Rockies
    Indians
    Red Sox
    Dodgers

    Surprised to see the Rockies as a top 5 offensive lineup. Outside of Nolan and Blackmon, Iím not sure what everyone sees unless you are all predicting McMahon becomes a top 10 first basemen this year.
    Two legitamate MVP candidates can mask over a lot of problems in a lineup.

  12. #27
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    It's hard to rank top 5 bullpens from year to year with how quickly one can go from asset to liability. The Giants bullpen was their strength during their championship years, then all of sudden in 2016 it turned into hot garbage, and likely cost them the division, and nearly a playoff spot and almost certainly the NLDS vs the Cubs. It really can just turn on a dime.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    Two legitamate MVP candidates can mask over a lot of problems in a lineup.
    We were still below average offensively last year. People in love with Dahl but he WILL NOT be a big leaguer out of camp. Story is who he is. DJ, Desmond both had down years last year. Iannetta is not better than Lucroy.

    McMahon near all star level is the only way we are top 5. Tapia must be solid as well.

  14. #29
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    Lineup:

    - Astros
    - Yankees
    - Dodgers
    - Rockies
    - Nationals

    Rotation:

    - Nationals
    - Indians
    - Cubs
    - Mets (Assuming everyone is healthy)
    - Astros

    Bullpen:

    - Yankees
    - Dodgers
    - Indians
    - Rockies
    - Red Sox

  15. #30
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    Lineup -

    1. Astros
    2. Yankees
    3. Cubs
    4. Nationals
    5. Dodgers

    Rotation -
    1. Nationals
    2. Cubs
    3. Red Sox
    4. Astros
    5. Indians

    Bullpen-

    1. Yankees
    2. Indians
    3. Rockies
    4. Dodgers
    5. Red Sox


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