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  1. #1
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    Sep 2006
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    We're not as divided as "experts" say

    I've been saying for years that what we see in the media is not reality, and even smart informed people who know that still make bad assumptions about where that reality is. Trump has only made it worse.

    I wrote my thesis on the abortion debate decades ago and I've been asking people questions about it ever since and it gave me a window into the reality of peoples beliefs and how far they were from the message we get from the media. The reality is that the VAST majority of the people accept that abortion is a needed option and the VAST majority of the people don't think abortion should be allowed at some point late in a pregnancy. It's not black and white, we understand as a people the middle ground.

    I enjoyed this video about the issue of the media/pols vs reality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBH1QdyWmwQ
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  2. #2
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    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-issue/552752/
    Just found this pretty interesting article that suggests that when you leave the binary thought process of Pro/Anti gun, abortion etc and look at things on a spectrum, it shows people are far less divided on most issues than things are portrayed.

  3. #3
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    I'll watch the video when I can but my $0.02: I've long been of the belief that the biggest argument against this sheer divisiveness is just because most people just don't care enough. Those that do follow politics -- especially enough to post online -- are incredibly divided and it often is manifested with a flair of vitriol. The majority of people just aren't as invested and thus aren't as divided.

    Fox News viewers eat up that conspiracy fear-mongery nonsense and let it fester in their souls.
    MSNBC/Pod Save America viewers eat up #RUSSIA! and think it's all that matters...and that that people other than them actually care.

    The media's role? They cater to their viewers and fuel the divide among those that care enough to tune in, but I'm not so certain that divisiveness wouldn't find a way to exist if Fox, MSNBC, CNN, Breitbart, etc. didn't exist. Because something else would because people WANT that. They want to pit themselves against others. They like thinking they're right and others are wrong. They want to find ways to feel superior and justify their beliefs. They want to be partisan.

    But the reality is most people only get terribly concerned when their lives are directly impacted and very little ever changes regardless of who's in power in regards to that.

    And then again, just look at this forum. It's utterly and completely divided. Because, among those that care, I truly believe it's as bad as most suggest.
    this my sig

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-issue/552752/
    Just found this pretty interesting article that suggests that when you leave the binary thought process of Pro/Anti gun, abortion etc and look at things on a spectrum, it shows people are far less divided on most issues than things are portrayed.
    Thanks for that!
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2006
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    20,214
    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I'll watch the video when I can but my $0.02: I've long been of the belief that the biggest argument against this sheer divisiveness is just because most people just don't care enough. Those that do follow politics -- especially enough to post online -- are incredibly divided and it often is manifested with a flair of vitriol. The majority of people just aren't as invested and thus aren't as divided.

    Fox News viewers eat up that conspiracy fear-mongery nonsense and let it fester in their souls.
    MSNBC/Pod Save America viewers eat up #RUSSIA! and think it's all that matters...and that that people other than them actually care.

    The media's role? They cater to their viewers and fuel the divide among those that care enough to tune in, but I'm not so certain that divisiveness wouldn't find a way to exist if Fox, MSNBC, CNN, Breitbart, etc. didn't exist. Because something else would because people WANT that. They want to pit themselves against others. They like thinking they're right and others are wrong. They want to find ways to feel superior and justify their beliefs. They want to be partisan.

    But the reality is most people only get terribly concerned when their lives are directly impacted and very little ever changes regardless of who's in power in regards to that.

    And then again, just look at this forum. It's utterly and completely divided. Because, among those that care, I truly believe it's as bad as most suggest.
    I see what you are saying, but that's not true either ... people think Fox News viewers eat it up but really Fox News viewers are not all that different than MSNBC viewers. People still mostly think what they think for themselves mostly independant from what they watch ... what is tainted is what they think other people think. I know I'm reasonable, but those people have all kinds of dumb ideas!

    My guess is that if you asked those questions of Fox News viewers or MSNBC viewers you'd get the same middle of the road answers for the most part ... but if you asked those viewers what they though of the people who watch the OTHER channel you'd get those extremes as answers.

    As for this forum ... I think you'll find that not just opposing views get shouted down but moderate ones are caught in the crossfire. I posted a thread about gerrymandering reform going to the Supreme Court and mentioned that both Republicans and Democrats had admitted to doing it in the past and for 3 pages had to explain that noting that both did something did not mean that I didn't understand the current state of affairs. It was just stupid. I said something that was an absolute easily provable fact that was in my mind neutral but spent pages defending it? It's exhausting ... but I think that has more to do with online forums being a place people come to argue and agree and seldom to learn ... and not so much because people in real life really think exactly how they post in a forum.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  6. #6
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    Americans are as divided today as they've ever been. Social media is the culprit. Everyone has an opinion and everyone wants to chime in with their opinion. Twitter and Facebook facilitates this animosity and it's truly pathetic.

    I keep hearing about these Russian bots that's are trying to influence the public opinion. Just look at any politically based tweeter feed and you'll find the culprit. It's not Russians and it's not bots. It's the insane ideology of Amercian people today.

    It's sad that our politics are such an agrresive soical battle that it is won or lost in social media, according to those who use social media.

    Whatever happened to looking at **** as it's presented and deciphering if it is real or fake? Instaed of posting factual tweets that are for from factual and interpreted by one's own beliefs?

    I have one Facebook account to see the posts that my wife and son post. Everyone else can **** off.

    I don't have a Twitter account and never will. Just a bunch of biased opinions posting a bunch of over the top personal opinions.

    Today's americans are bar far the most divisive people in the history of the world. And it's ******** without an outcome.

    Glad you seen things that way, but as long as Americans live their lives through socia media, there is no common ground.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Americans are as divided today as they've ever been. Social media is the culprit. Everyone has an opinion and everyone wants to chime in with their opinion. Twitter and Facebook facilitates this animosity and it's truly pathetic.

    I keep hearing about these Russian bots that's are trying to influence the public opinion. Just look at any politically based tweeter feed and you'll find the culprit. It's not Russians and it's not bots. It's the insane ideology of Amercian people today.

    It's sad that our politics are such an agrresive soical battle that it is won or lost in social media, according to those who use social media.

    Whatever happened to looking at **** as it's presented and deciphering if it is real or fake? Instaed of posting factual tweets that are for from factual and interpreted by one's own beliefs?

    I have one Facebook account to see the posts that my wife and son post. Everyone else can **** off.

    I don't have a Twitter account and never will. Just a bunch of biased opinions posting a bunch of over the top personal opinions.

    Today's americans are bar far the most divisive people in the history of the world. And it's ******** without an outcome.

    Glad you seen things that way, but as long as Americans live their lives through socia media, there is no common ground.
    As a person without any social media accounts, you feel qualified to make that statement?
    “Today, we rip the hearts out of these ****in' haters!!!” - Demeco Ryans pregame speech vs ATL

  8. #8
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    Dec 2006
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    Its funny because you'll see MSM running headlines like "Racism is the biggest problem in America!" Then you'll see someone from the city and the country being interviewed. When asked what is the biggest issue in their lives, the city people are likely to say high rent and poor public transit. The country people are likely to say the drug epidemic and lack of employment opportunities. Most MSM outlets are living in the clouds.

  9. #9
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    Anyone blaming social media for anything is wrong. People express what they really believe due to the heightened anonymity. So what you’re seeing is the removal of social varnish and people’s true self rather than something foreign.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Americans are as divided today as they've ever been. Social media is the culprit. Everyone has an opinion and everyone wants to chime in with their opinion. Twitter and Facebook facilitates this animosity and it's truly pathetic.

    I keep hearing about these Russian bots that's are trying to influence the public opinion. Just look at any politically based tweeter feed and you'll find the culprit. It's not Russians and it's not bots. It's the insane ideology of Amercian people today.

    It's sad that our politics are such an agrresive soical battle that it is won or lost in social media, according to those who use social media.

    Whatever happened to looking at **** as it's presented and deciphering if it is real or fake? Instaed of posting factual tweets that are for from factual and interpreted by one's own beliefs?

    I have one Facebook account to see the posts that my wife and son post. Everyone else can **** off.

    I don't have a Twitter account and never will. Just a bunch of biased opinions posting a bunch of over the top personal opinions.

    Today's americans are bar far the most divisive people in the history of the world. And it's ******** without an outcome.

    Glad you seen things that way, but as long as Americans live their lives through socia media, there is no common ground.
    The point of this is that people are NOT divided, they just THINK they are ... just like you think.

    As for people deciding for themselves what's real and what's fake ... how? Do you fact check EVERY thing you read? I read a story in a major respected MSM paper that said the Tea-Party was formed in reaction to Obama becoming president ... most people read that and it just goes into their heads and essentially becomes fact totally ignorant of the fact that the the organization that became the Tea Party started 20 years before Obama, and the fact that the Tea Party was manipulated and morphed into a caricature of itself is data that people are just not going to find in casual reading. The subtle falsehoods are the ones that slip through and nobody has the time to be both well informed AND fact check everything they read.
    Last edited by Scoots; 02-14-2018 at 10:18 AM.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Anyone blaming social media for anything is wrong. People express what they really believe due to the heightened anonymity. So what you’re seeing is the removal of social varnish and people’s true self rather than something foreign.
    I don't think social media is blameless in the issue ... it's just part of the system that helps people isolate themselves from differing opinions, but it IS an issue. It also amplifies a few peoples responses in the readers mind and they apply that opinion to entire groups.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  12. #12
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    everyone on social media shares their opinion as if it's a fact. this also includes entitled celebrities that use their platform to be more like activists than their job as entertainers.

    the anti-Trump movement seems to be getting dumber

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    everyone on social media shares their opinion as if it's a fact. this also includes entitled celebrities that use their platform to be more like activists than their job as entertainers.
    This is versus pundits and twitter egomaniacs that wish they were celebrities so that they could be activists or hope that their activism makes them celebrity. Everyone’s a special snowflake.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    The point of this is that people are NOT divided, they just THINK they are ... just like you think.

    As for people deciding for themselves what's real and what's fake ... how? Do you fact check EVERY thing you read? I read a story in a major respected MSM paper that said the Tea-Party was formed in reaction to Obama becoming president ... most people read that and it just goes into their heads and essentially becomes fact totally ignorant of the fact that the the organization that became the Tea Party started 20 years before Obama, and the fact that the Tea Party was manipulated and morphed into a caricature of itself is data that people are just not going to find in casual reading. The subtle falsehoods are the ones that slip through and nobody has the time to be both well informed AND fact check everything they read.
    I see this all the time. We confuse when something became popular with when it started, because quite frankly that's when it was new to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Americans are as divided today as they've ever been. Social media is the culprit. Everyone has an opinion and everyone wants to chime in with their opinion. Twitter and Facebook facilitates this animosity and it's truly pathetic.

    I keep hearing about these Russian bots that's are trying to influence the public opinion. Just look at any politically based tweeter feed and you'll find the culprit. It's not Russians and it's not bots. It's the insane ideology of Amercian people today.

    It's sad that our politics are such an agrresive soical battle that it is won or lost in social media, according to those who use social media.

    Whatever happened to looking at **** as it's presented and deciphering if it is real or fake? Instaed of posting factual tweets that are for from factual and interpreted by one's own beliefs?

    I have one Facebook account to see the posts that my wife and son post. Everyone else can **** off.

    I don't have a Twitter account and never will. Just a bunch of biased opinions posting a bunch of over the top personal opinions.

    Today's americans are bar far the most divisive people in the history of the world. And it's ******** without an outcome.

    Glad you seen things that way, but as long as Americans live their lives through socia media, there is no common ground.
    There is not alot of evidence of this especially if you consider what Scoots is saying. If you allow people to articulate their full ideas about things like abortion, gun control, gay marriage, taxes, immigration, the vast majority of people are closer than the Pro/Con polls would have you believe. What we do have is a system that is not politically rewarding people for centrist views, which is being driven by the loudest, but definitely not most frequent voices.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

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