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View Poll Results: Which of the remaining players was best at their peak?

Voters
18. You may not vote on this poll
  • Dwyane Wade

    5 27.78%
  • Oscar Robertson

    1 5.56%
  • Bill Walton

    7 38.89%
  • Jerry West

    2 11.11%
  • Charles Barkley

    0 0%
  • Julius Erving

    0 0%
  • Kevin Durant

    1 5.56%
  • David Robinson

    0 0%
  • Chris Paul

    0 0%
  • Kevin Garnett

    1 5.56%
  • Bill Russell

    0 0%
  • Karl Malone

    0 0%
  • Another Player (Please Specify)

    1 5.56%
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Results 91 to 105 of 142
  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    That still ignores league averages and focusing on peak tmac is better than overall prime run, dudes career was totally derailed by numerous injuries, at least wade had a few more years since he came in physically matured.
    Wades career was derailed too and he still managed to be a top 20 player ever. Wades best season probably would've been 06-07
    RIP lol, please!

    8/1/2011 - 01/28/2018

    You may not be with us anymore but your name, legacy, and what you stood for will last forever!

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by europagnpilgrim View Post
    They were a better structure team before Mutombo with Ratliff who was a athletic rim runner and shot blocker who fit like a glove with AI, you are kidding yourself talking about AI needs to thank that defense and ignore the other side and not tell Mutombo and those 6ppg scorers to thank Iverson for shooting willingly to cover their non scoring abilities, you had more post moves than Mutombo and I bet you could outshoot Snow from the elbow with your eyes closed, that Pacers team just came off a Finals trip so its their fault they were barely 500. not AI's, and they lost the game against Pacers because Iverson had a ''off offensive'' game, keyword '''OFFENSE''', see how much they depend on AI scoring? or it basketball all defense for 48minutes for both teams?

    Raptors series came down once again between franchise players in Carter vs Iverson, Carter went for 50pts one game, Iverson did it twice that series, so does the Sixers owe Iverson for carrying the load or is it just only defense carried Iverson? the media GOAT ''JORDAN'' and Iverson are the only players to drop 50 or more twice in a playoff series, imagine that the Lil Dipper is in the same breath as the media whore GOAT, JORDAN

    Once again on paper Milwaukee had a true legit big 3 and possible 4 with super sub T Thomas(another wasted pick by philly prior), Iverson missed a game that series as well because he could barely walk and was hurt/injured but we should just ignore that and say he shot 34pct for the series but in game 7 when the chips are all on the table he drops 44pts, meaning he is clutch and carried the entire offense right?

    no his hallmark achievement is doing it with Mckie and Snow as his 2nd and 3rd options, and if it makes you feel better you can swap one of those for Mutombo, and if Iverson is 40-60 range where does Mckie and Snow rank? between 800-2000? just want to clear this up because its nothing you can really do but what he did with that team, go from 18 wins and max out at 56 from 98-2004 with 6ppg career scorers, that is amazing once you truly wrap your brain around it
    If you shoot the ball 30 times a game (34 and 39 times in his big scoring nights), you're going to put up some points. Their D held the Raps to 92 and 88 points in those games. Yes, they needed AI's scoring, but any number of players could chuck up 30-40 shots a game and get them buckets. They ultimately moved on because they had a fantastic defense anchored by the DPOY/All-Star Mutombo. Your hilarious analysis of the Bucks aside, no, they were not an impressive Conference Finals team in the least. And AI was absolute dog-**** in being carried to victory again by their defense.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    You're still not posting their ortg but to answer the q, it's not just era but the strength of the teams they faced. Like those Detroit pistons were unkind to perimeter players, once they finished with tmac they did much the same to Iverson in the next round. Tmacs squads were severely undermanned vs the Mavs and tmac giving Dirk fits should not be discounted, he completely outplayed Dirk despite the loss. Wade taking on and losing to Joe Johnson and horford is understandable but not exactly defensively imposing if you know what I mean.

    His 5 game series vs Boston is far more impressive given their reputation defensively, much more becoming of a hero in defeat but the Celtics weren't pushed to the brink imo, both faced +50 win squads but I just think tmac should get the nod for his 2 way ability. Still that game wade had to stave off a sweep was prolly greater than most games I've seen from over matched stars.

    Still, check out their offensive rtg vs those teams.

    Wade vs atl/boston
    113 o rtg (112/114 respectively)

    Tmac vs detroit/Dallas
    112 (110/114 respectively)

    So yeah wade was more efficient but it was by a hair, both had a 27 PER. Very close debate, I just think tmac had it harder and was better on both ends and as I've said before, gimme the more skilled player if it's close statistically. Iverson don't come close in this debate that's for sure
    Iverson destroyed that Detroit team individually, its a reason why Daly said he was a top 10 player all time when he went for damn near 40 and 10+ for one of those series

    you are right Iverson doesn't come close because he never blew a 3-1 lead and TMac never got praised by Daly after losing by saying he was a top 10 player like he did for Iverson

    so you are right Iverson doesn't come down close enough, he is too far up, more so over TMac than Wade, Wade was basically a bigger version of Iverson without the natural shooting of Iverson

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    In AI's championship run (that they can thank Mutombo and their defense for more so than AI), they beat a .500 Pacers team (still lost a game), a 47 win Raptors team (in 7), and (now we're on to the teams that would actually MAKE the Western Conference playoffs...) a 52 win Bucks team in the ECF's (AI shot 34% from the field but they won due to their D despite his woes). They were then absolutely torched in the Finals once they faced the West And that's his hallmark achievement. Sorry, he's no GOAT buddy. He should join the list around the 40-60 range if we're still going.
    While I agree with the premise of your list, the 76ers were actually the only team in the playoffs to beat the Lakers that year, so they were torched less than any other West team. But yes, that 76ers team was among the worst finals team ever.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    While I agree with the premise of your list, the 76ers were actually the only team in the playoffs to beat the Lakers that year, so they were torched less than any other West team. But yes, that 76ers team was among the worst finals team ever.
    Kobe and the Lakers backcourt got shut down in the first game by their D and they caught them before getting backdoor swept, but there was never another outcome in that series. They definitely got torched. The 01 Kings and 01 Spurs would've done the same to Philly mind you. That was a garbage, garbage conference that year that they made it to the Finals in.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    As for this list, 77 Walton.
    What's not to love about west 65 thru 70

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    If you shoot the ball 30 times a game (34 and 39 times in his big scoring nights), you're going to put up some points. Their D held the Raps to 92 and 88 points in those games. Yes, they needed AI's scoring, but any number of players could chuck up 30-40 shots a game and get them buckets. They ultimately moved on because they had a fantastic defense anchored by the DPOY/All-Star Mutombo. Your hilarious analysis of the Bucks aside, no, they were not an impressive Conference Finals team in the least. And AI was absolute dog-**** in being carried to victory again by their defense.
    See you finally admitted it, way to be a good debater and admit when you clearly see the fault

    you keep mentioning his shot attempts and it adds to what I keep saying on here, he had to shoot 30+ times a game and had to play Wilt like minutes(he is the Lil Dipper for a reason) and still led the league in steals 3 straight years, what would you expect a player to do on defense when he is asked to shoot 30+ times a game and play 46-48 minutes out of 48minutes?

    if Mutombo was Shaq and Mckie was TMac or if Snow was R Allen do you think in your right frame of mind Iverson would have been asked to shoot 30+ times? If your answer is yes then don't ever reply back to me about basketball, lets talk WWE instead if you are this lost

    and no not any number of players can carry a load for 7yrs like AI did, are you kidding yourself? he carried with a purpose not because he froze out players, he didn't freeze out allstars, he picked up and shoot more for gleaguers(scoring wise)

    Mutumbo was pushing 38yrs of age or so when he got there for his 1 1/2yr tenure with AI, so much for trying to build something right

    on top of no stability you had a ****** GM, a stubborn defense only minded HOF coach(which makes it worse because he is HOF material so his way or highway) and 6ppg scorers for 7yrs, if you cant see that then I don't know what to tell you, other than take up another sport to watch and dissect

    on paper the Bucks were better with Glenn/Cassell/Allen and 6th man candidate who was better than Mckie who actually won it, imagine that

    if Sixers carried AI that Bucks series then did they win the game he sat out injured? why did they lose the final 5 games of 01' season when AI sat out to heal up for playoffs? that team would have won 60 games had he played those 5 final games, that would have even been more amazing to win 60 games with 6ppg scorers, its why Lebron was being praised his first round with Cavs, he had them winning 60 games with Drew Gooden as 2nd best player or Big Z or Boobie/Hughes, what more do you want Lebron to do after being drafted by a 20 win team? he couldn't do nothing more but to leave and try and get on a better team, congrats to Lebron and maybe he learned from his idol Iverson not to burn out your peak/prime years with gleaguers

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    What's not to love about west 65 thru 70
    He has a case and so do quite a few others here ('03 to '05 KG is due and DRob + Russell need to get more love soon as well) . I love Walton that season though (and into next year before his foot finally gave way). A player with no weaknesses and incredible attributes (playmaking + rebounding + defense notably). Every time I watch a peak Walton game I'm overwhelmed by his BBIQ and overall dominance on the floor. Unlike most he clearly never looked for the stats but would get them regardless. More importantly, he was the fulcrum of a truly dominant team and was the best player on the floor in series against guys like prime David Thompson and Kareem. I'm taking that guy over the best of West (who I like a ton).
    Last edited by tredigs; 02-12-2018 at 10:20 PM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Kobe and the Lakers backcourt got shut down in the first game by their D and they caught them before getting backdoor swept, but there was never another outcome in that series. They definitely got torched. The 01 Kings and 01 Spurs would've done the same to Philly mind you. That was a garbage, garbage conference that year that they made it to the Finals in.
    With a garbage support cast, take Iverson off and that Philly team is garbage, put him on there in that time and they have a punchers chance, give him another all star or two in that era and its multiple Finals trips, don't know if they would win but they would have gotten there to try at least 3 times

    so the east was garbage and take Iverson off and that Sixers team doesn't make the playoffs and if they do it would be as a 8th seed on the last day of the season

    its a reason why I said they didn't draft right because of they would have they would have been the OKC earlier version of the 00's but more successful because of the weak East,the West was tougher for OKC but they still had the horses to chase for it and that's 80pct of the battle, the rest is coaching/adjustments

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by europagnpilgrim View Post
    See you finally admitted it, way to be a good debater and admit when you clearly see the fault

    you keep mentioning his shot attempts and it adds to what I keep saying on here, he had to shoot 30+ times a game and had to play Wilt like minutes(he is the Lil Dipper for a reason) and still led the league in steals 3 straight years, what would you expect a player to do on defense when he is asked to shoot 30+ times a game and play 46-48 minutes out of 48minutes?

    if Mutombo was Shaq and Mckie was TMac or if Snow was R Allen do you think in your right frame of mind Iverson would have been asked to shoot 30+ times? If your answer is yes then don't ever reply back to me about basketball, lets talk WWE instead if you are this lost

    and no not any number of players can carry a load for 7yrs like AI did, are you kidding yourself? he carried with a purpose not because he froze out players, he didn't freeze out allstars, he picked up and shoot more for gleaguers(scoring wise)

    Mutumbo was pushing 38yrs of age or so when he got there for his 1 1/2yr tenure with AI, so much for trying to build something right

    on top of no stability you had a ****** GM, a stubborn defense only minded HOF coach(which makes it worse because he is HOF material so his way or highway) and 6ppg scorers for 7yrs, if you cant see that then I don't know what to tell you, other than take up another sport to watch and dissect

    on paper the Bucks were better with Glenn/Cassell/Allen and 6th man candidate who was better than Mckie who actually won it, imagine that

    if Sixers carried AI that Bucks series then did they win the game he sat out injured? why did they lose the final 5 games of 01' season when AI sat out to heal up for playoffs? that team would have won 60 games had he played those 5 final games, that would have even been more amazing to win 60 games with 6ppg scorers, its why Lebron was being praised his first round with Cavs, he had them winning 60 games with Drew Gooden as 2nd best player or Big Z or Boobie/Hughes, what more do you want Lebron to do after being drafted by a 20 win team? he couldn't do nothing more but to leave and try and get on a better team, congrats to Lebron and maybe he learned from his idol Iverson not to burn out your peak/prime years with gleaguers
    I like your posts, they're fun. A bit exhausting though. Having some wine and focusing on my NBA bets for the night now. I'll get back to this more tomorrow. I'm pretty sure Mutombo was in his early to mid 30's on the Sixers btw (just skimming through seeing 38? Don't have those pages up now but no I doubt that). I don't think AI was a nobody. But what he did offensively for that elite D in that horrible conference can be replicated by a number of players. There's no merit badges for being a midget. All is equal when we're talking GOAT's. And to me he's simply objectively not one of them. Again though I can dive a little deeper tomorrow. On to tonight --->

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust:32170018
    Bill Walton.

    Anchored a top 5 offense and defense with his Tim Duncan level leadership. League MVP. Finals MVP. His combination of scoring-passing-rebounding-defending outclasses the rest of the competition. This a player who averaged more than 3 blocks per game while averaging less than 3 fouls per game. That is something that Tim Duncan, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Shaq were never able to do. He made his teammates better on both ends of the floor with his incredible passing and help defense. His outlet passing is the stuff of legend. Finally in the most important game of the season carried the team on his back with a phenomenal 20-20 game to clinch the NBA finals while dishing out 7 assists and an absurd 8 blocks. Wade may have scored more ppg but Walton more than makes up for it with everything else he brought to the table. Give it to the mountain man.
    Good post.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Good post.
    Lol. Had not read this (or most of the thread) but agreed.

  13. #103
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    Wow... I regret not getting on sooner... How in the ***k is McGrady's peak higher than Durant's? Look, I dislike that p***y @** b**** as much as the next non-Golden State fanboy, but his peak is noticeably better than McGrady's. Good lord...
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  14. #104
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    My vote would be for Jerry West, but since no one gives a ***t about old white guards, I have to be strategic and vote for Bill Walton. The dude barely had a peak... but if we are basing it off one season, then I give him the nod over Wade... Get real refs who didn't have money on the game in 2006 NBA Finals, and Dirk would be the undisputed 2nd greatest PF of all time and Wade would have 1 less ring and 0 FMVPs.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  15. #105
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    By the way, Wade is an overrated piece of ***t, but he is better than McGrady too...
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

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