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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    Why is next season the benchmark? A team with this much success doesn't just fall apart overnight, especially in such a garbage league.

    The question is years 2 or 3 when TB starts to regress and these chickens that RK hatched come home to roost. This assumes BB is gone.

    I don't know why you continue to oversimplify things but this isn't a simple discussion.
    Next year is a bench mark of regression...As you say, that's how it starts. If they show signs of regression, you'd be right in this scenario. 12 wins and AFCCG have happened over the last 5 seasons and is a pretty high bench mark. But it's enough data to say this is their standard when things are good. If they fall short - I'd say there's issues.

    Now you've parlayed this into a 2-3 year demise. Well it didn't take a BS ESPN story to tell someone with even the most common sense that when BB leaves there's going to be some turmoil and change. I mean c'mon guy.

    All I'm reading from this is your speculation from about a month ago hasn't progressed in your favor so now it's a "2-3" year thing and we just have to watch it play out. I don't buy it. You and ESPN and all these other conspiracy theorist drummed this up to be a catastrophic issue. Well, catastrophic issues don't take 2-3 years to blow once they start...It would be immediate.

    I'm not simplifying anything....Your complicating a situation based of speculation and conjecture. Relationships are complicated in nature. If you think the past 18 years have been nothing but gravy all this time you're a fool. This has been my point. BB has been here before, it's not a big deal, he'll work his way through it like he always does.

    City of Champions

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Next year is a bench mark of regression...As you say, that's how it starts. If they show signs of regression, you'd be right in this scenario. 12 wins and AFCCG have happened over the last 5 seasons and is a pretty high bench mark. But it's enough data to say this is their standard when things are good. If they fall short - I'd say there's issues.

    Now you've parlayed this into a 2-3 year demise. Well it didn't take a BS ESPN story to tell someone with even the most common sense that when BB leaves there's going to be some turmoil and change. I mean c'mon guy.

    All I'm reading from this is your speculation from about a month ago hasn't progressed in your favor so now it's a "2-3" year thing and we just have to watch it play out. I don't buy it. You and ESPN and all these other conspiracy theorist drummed this up to be a catastrophic issue. Well, catastrophic issues don't take 2-3 years to blow once they start...It would be immediate.

    I'm not simplifying anything....Your complicating a situation based of speculation and conjecture. Relationships are complicated in nature. If you think the past 18 years have been nothing but gravy all this time you're a fool. This has been my point. BB has been here before, it's not a big deal, he'll work his way through it like he always does.
    Forget just wins and losses: what makes this organization tick is the culture imparted by BB.
    Pats wouldn't implode over night if he resigned because that's not how cultures work.

    But after a few seasons where the head coach is the star QB's toadie, Brady given carte blanche from ownership to come and go whenever he wants, team comes second, the culture would begin to change for the worse. This is why BB can have issues with an MVP player posting an AV of 19 -- he understands he long-term implications, most fans do not

    BTW, history neverrepeats itself because all historical conditions are different. Conflict between RK, BB & TB obviously aren't new. But the dynamic certainly is as each side gets closer to the end.

  3. #18
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    Forget just wins and losses: what makes this organization tick is the culture imparted by BB.
    Pats wouldn't implode over night if he resigned because that's not how cultures work.
    If there was something wrong, you'd see an on field effect? No? So you'd have to see it in wins and losses. I'm starting to think you don't even know what your stance is. On one hand there's a catastrophic power struggle going in internally, and on the other it's "well, they have a culture there so it might just be a slow regression over the next 2-3 years". Pick a side man. If it's a slow regression, fine, whatever, but don't be yipping about catastrophic issues if that's the case.

    But after a few seasons where the head coach is the star QB's toadie, Brady given carte blanche from ownership to come and go whenever he wants, team comes second, the culture would begin to change for the worse. This is why BB can have issues with an MVP player posting an AV of 19 -- he understands he long-term implications, most fans do not
    BB will never be Brady's "toadie". Brady isn't a little punk who's going to take advantage of Krafts generosity and loyalty. It's often been reported that BB is harder on Brady than anyone else. I don't expect this to change. BB is too prideful to just bow down to Brady and keep working here. You can't have it both ways. If BB was just going to bow down to the decision - he'd just leave. He didn't - therefor, again, you're making a bigger deal out of something based on speculation.

    City of Champions

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    If there was something wrong, you'd see an on field effect? No? So you'd have to see it in wins and losses. I'm starting to think you don't even know what your stance is. On one hand there's a catastrophic power struggle going in internally, and on the other it's "well, they have a culture there so it might just be a slow regression over the next 2-3 years". Pick a side man. If it's a slow regression, fine, whatever, but don't be yipping about catastrophic issues if that's the case.

    BB will never be Brady's "toadie". Brady isn't a little punk who's going to take advantage of Krafts generosity and loyalty. It's often been reported that BB is harder on Brady than anyone else. I don't expect this to change. BB is too prideful to just bow down to Brady and keep working here. You can't have it both ways. If BB was just going to bow down to the decision - he'd just leave. He didn't - therefor, again, you're making a bigger deal out of something based on speculation.
    What are we even arguing here? A team with this offensive talent and institutional culture, plus a high functioning QB, wouldn't just fall apart overnight in BB's absence. Especially in this league.... But as the ethic unravels (tackling fundamentals to media access to avoiding penalties to no player superseding the team fizzles) so too does the operation. I think that's pretty obvious.

    BTW, where did I write Belichick would become Brady's toadie? How would that make any sense? From the Jimmy G trade to the recent comments by RK, the front office has a clearly renewed it's commitment to Brady for the next ~2-3 seasons. I would argue hiring McDaniels, Tom's guy, to likely become HC is in line with that direction.

    Ask yourself this: how could a championship-minded coach like BB possibly have issues with an unblemished, HOF/MVP quarterback on a pretty team-friendly contract? Answer: it's because Belichick has a genius for organization, understands complex problems before they arise (hence Doom) and probably sees the writing on the wall with the TB/Kraft dynamic.

    When an owner gives a star player carte blanche to retire whenever because of past performance, where does that logic end? When his QBR is 58 and he's creeping towards mid-40's? It's not clear. That's why I call McDaniels a puppet. If ownership has chosen TB > BB (we can dispute that, but I believe that's the case) what the hell is McD going to do if and when a switch is required?

    You can call this discussion reactive or premature, but it's at the heart of the inner tensions IMO. And really not that far away, despite the incredible SB performance.

  5. #20
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    According to sources close to the league’s Most Valuable Player, Brady is ready to sit out all of this year’s offseason organized team activities unless he receives a contract extension that carries with it up-front money similar to what his former protege, Jimmy Garoppolo, will receive from the San Francisco 49ers. Garoppolo yesterday signed a five-year, $137.4 million deal with $74 million guaranteed.
    Source (Borges)

    Curran followed with:

    I was told that @RonBorges report Brady would skip OTAs unless he got paid like Jimmy G. is "off the reservation."
    Now allegedly Borges was spoofed by some guy pretending to be Don Yee I mean if this is true, he's d-o-n-e:

    https://twitter.com/KirkAndCallahan/...30718627745792L]
    Last edited by elements1985; 02-09-2018 at 08:14 AM.

  6. #21
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    This team needs to be all in next year, and hopefully brady will be looking at major restructure to free up cap room this offseason, so we fill our holes with players looking for a ring. Maybe an aqib talib or richard sherman on 1 year deals. Hopefully everyone comes back healthy and ready, and gronk doesnt retire in his prime.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyBrave View Post
    This team needs to be all in next year, and hopefully brady will be looking at major restructure to free up cap room this offseason, so we fill our holes with players looking for a ring. Maybe an aqib talib or richard sherman on 1 year deals. Hopefully everyone comes back healthy and ready, and gronk doesnt retire in his prime.
    My prediction:

    Brady gets a 3 year extension for $37 Million (Ironic because Jimmy G got $137M). Brady's final 2 seasons have a cap hit of $22M each season. (Base salary of $15M). Tack on $37M over 3 years to the end of that and you have a total owed to Brady of $81M over 5 years.

    Now this is great PR for Brady because his contract takes him to 45 years old, which is what he's stated over and over again as the age he'd like to play till. This is a win-win for the team and Brady. The Patriots can take his cap number for the next 2 seasons down to about $16M by giving him a heft signing bonus, which puts money directly in his pocket but reduces the cap hit as that bonus is spread evenly over the 5 years. A contract structured like this does 3 things.
    1. Pays Brady immediately - so it's advantageous for him to do it.
    2. Reduces his cap number over the next 2 years - which helps the team and Brady add more talent
    3. Is basically still a 2 year commitment to Brady - with an easier out the final 3 years should he decline

    I don't expect a Talib or Sherman signing. Mainly because we don't need an outside CB. We need a slot CB. Sign me up for Aaron Colvin please.

    I expect we'll extend guys like Cooks, Flowers, Mason.

    I think Gronk plays 1-2 more years. I think this is his last year in NE. He strikes me as a competitive guy, I do think he was emotional after the SB and that's why he responded to the retirement question the way he did. Now I do think there's some truth to him considering retirement, just not yet. I think the idea of going to Hollywood is enticing - my guess is he makes that jump in a year or 2. I think he has enough people around him that will remind him that football lifespan is so small that if you leave now, you're never coming back. So if there's even a little desire left to play. Do it for a year or 2 and then get out.

    Gronk has 2 years left on his deal here in NE. His cap hit this year is about $11M and $12M the following year, which are reasonable numbers for his production, but still high. We can't really move him this year because his cap hit would be too high. But after this season his cap hit would only be $2M if we moved him.

    So...They'll play this season with Gronk. After the season, either Gronk will retire, or the Patriots will trade him. Not sure which will happen first. But it's actually an ideal scenario for both if Gronk retires after this season. He'll still likely go down as the best TE in history and it'll all be with one team. He can move on to Hollywood and start a second career.

    City of Champions

  8. #23
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    Gary Tanguay is a dope, but sometimes his instincts are acute. This morning he suggested the Gronk wavering/cryptic Tweets (now this issue the Marc Daniels story) represents the aforementioned culture shift in the locker room. May be wrong on the details but correct on the big picture. Bad things happen when individuals supersede the team, which, IMO, we're now seeing from TB's celebrity cascading down.

    http://www.12up.com/posts/5990067-re...g-on-tb12-diet

    BTW, Brady put the final piece of his Facebook series on hold after the SB loss. Meaning he most likely released it in a calculated manner, hedging his bets on winning. If that aligns with Bill Belichick's standard practice then that's news to me.....

    I think Bill goes maybe one more year, knowing he will never be empowered by ownership to make the change at QB if and when the time comes. Laughable to think the McDaniels, TB's puppet, ever will.
    Last edited by elements1985; 02-27-2018 at 10:38 PM.

  9. #24
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    This isn't all that surprising, right? With McDaniels not attending in most years anyway, plus all of the recent drama of him bailing out of the Indy HC job, doesn't it make the most sense for him not to go? I don't see anything here that makes me raise an eyebrow, but I could be overlooking something I guess.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistamyrick View Post
    This isn't all that surprising, right? With McDaniels not attending in most years anyway, plus all of the recent drama of him bailing out of the Indy HC job, doesn't it make the most sense for him not to go? I don't see anything here that makes me raise an eyebrow, but I could be overlooking something I guess.
    If BB, one of the best talent evaluators in football, is going to "show (McDaniels) his world", I would argue the Scouting Combine would be on the list. Does this mean McD will invariably stay home when Pats play in Indy? Why not other assistants?

    My theory is Belichick sees the writing on the wall with Kraft/TB/Josh and wants to pick his QB in defiance. But that's just a theory. The move reeks of BB trying to gain control. Multiple sets of eyes never hurt.

  12. #27
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    Tom Vs. Time Episode 6: what a self-serving display. You don't release that kinda content during an active career IMO. Interesting from a fans perspective, perhaps destructive from a team angle. Kinda bad form.

    I didn't see the ominous, imminent retirement ending that the media did. And BTW, Giselle seems like a pretty bomb wife. Lucky man Brady is.

  13. #28
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    Fascinating podcast with Tom Curran (see 17 minute mark): https://art19.com/shows/quick-slants...8-90e2929b21f2

    I think the story, when it's all said and done, will be how Brady kinda sold out > SB 51. It appears that Deflategate (TB taking it on the chin for the Patriots) coupled with the ATL comeback has given him a new lease on life. A greater sense that he's owed something in New England. Far less tolerance for Belichick's coaching style....

    A good example of this shift is Brady's hand injury. BB dismissed it as "not open heart surgery" following the JAX win (same ascetic Bill as always IMO), whereas Brady showed images of the cut, discussed it in ESPN Classic prose in "Tom vs. Time". The highly self-serving, oddly timed docu-series.

    We know that Brady's biggest fans on the Pats are Gronk and Edelman. To me, Gronk likely feels a little more emboldened to challenge Belichick with TB as his ally.... So that's the calculus for Belichick: do you trade Gronk, gut Brady's inner circle/clique to maintain order; or keep core talent and risk a potential insurrection that starts with the two preeminent players?

    Knowing BB's ways I seriously think the former is in play.

  14. #29
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    I find this idea that Belichick needs to "change his coaching style", become Tyron Lue, really abhorrent. What does that mean exactly, let Brady rule the Patriots as godking? Make the team a TB12 outpost of cliques and favoritism?

    The Garappolo saga irrevocably changed the BB/TB dynamic IMO. Instead of Bill riding the franchise QB to make him better, keep the team in balance, it's now viewed through a lens of distrust. Nagging because BB has an axe to grind and wants a replacement.

    Tailoring teams around individual players and their needs is where organizations die. I can't believe Pats fans are falling for these modern traps.
    Last edited by elements1985; 03-20-2018 at 04:47 PM.

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