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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I would put Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Rothlespurger, Smith, Brees, Ryan, Wentz, Prescott and Goff ahead of him. That puts him top 15 for sure and top 11 if you don't think other guys (Garapollo, Winston, Mariota, Watson) will develop this year and surpass him
    This is the dilemma. You are essentially saying that the Jets should make cousins who is, for sake of argument, a fringe top 10 qb, the highest paid Qb in the league.
    I respect your opinion and I get it. But no way in hell am I paying a guy who is not a definite top ten and not even close to being a top 5 qb, number 1 qb money.
    Do I think Cousins could win a title? Possibly but the team around him needs to be very good.
    Bring back Josh and draft a kid. Then invest that 30+ mil you were going to pay cousins on the Oline, a DB or two and an edge rusher. Roll the money over so that when we need to resign guys like Williams, we have it.
    The truth is, with the right team, McCown could win a title. If Dilfer and McMahon did id, so can he. lol.

    Build a team that will be ready for business for 2019, with their, then to be second year QB. I'm not suggesting the team should be bad next year. I think with a better Oline, and edge rusher and a couple legit CBs, we have a shot to get to the playoffs.

    The key is development of a young QB.
    I get the fact that the highest paid qbs are always the next man up but look at the highest paid qbs:
    Jimmy G
    Stafford
    Carr
    Luck
    Brees
    Cousins
    Flacco
    Rodgers
    Wilson
    Big Ben
    Only 4 of them are elite and deserve the money they got. As stupid as it is whichever qbs contract is expiring is going to get the most money. Do you trust the Jets to develop a QB? And do you have faith in them keeping the current coaching staff intact for the next few years to groom a rookie QB? I don't

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleaboy View Post
    I get the fact that the highest paid qbs are always the next man up but look at the highest paid qbs:
    Jimmy G
    Stafford
    Carr
    Luck
    Brees
    Cousins
    Flacco
    Rodgers
    Wilson
    Big Ben
    Only 4 of them are elite and deserve the money they got. As stupid as it is whichever qbs contract is expiring is going to get the most money. Do you trust the Jets to develop a QB? And do you have faith in them keeping the current coaching staff intact for the next few years to groom a rookie QB? I don't
    Believe me, this is not a win-win. It's more likely a lose-lose. There is not a truly high probability option.
    Cousins is an above average qb whole be grossly overpaid and that could prevent the signing of other players that can help. I really don't think he's the franchise qb for the jets.
    Drafting a kid is just as big of a risk because who knows what the FO will be next season.
    I think if the jets really improve, both Mac and Bowles will be back. If not, I think Mac will get another year.

    I would rather risk it in the draft. I'm not a fan of cousins and I don't think he puts us over the top.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  3. #123
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    Kinko, with the cap space we have, we could seriously front load his deal, let's say a whopping $50 million this year. This way future years is not a big cap hit so it won't keep us front signing others.

    $50 million on Cousins this year, hypothetically. We still have a **** ton of cap. Who would we not be able to sign that we would be targeting?

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Kinko, with the cap space we have, we could seriously front load his deal, let's say a whopping $50 million this year. This way future years is not a big cap hit so it won't keep us front signing others.

    $50 million on Cousins this year, hypothetically. We still have a **** ton of cap. Who would we not be able to sign that we would be targeting?
    I'll jump in and answer. I think that I would prefer to spend the money on some of the following players:
    an edge rusher -Enzekial Ansah
    a couple of CBs - Trumaine Johnson, Malcolm Butler or possibly Kyle Fuller or even Prince Amukamora for depth
    an offensive lineman - nate Solder, Justin Pugh
    a wide receiver - Sammy Watkins
    a less expensive bridge QB - McCown, McCarron - I was dead set against McCown last year in a tank season, but as abridge to a drafted QB this year, he'd be fine and he likes the team

    I didn't address RB, because there's no way he's leaving Pittsburgh

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Kinko, with the cap space we have, we could seriously front load his deal, let's say a whopping $50 million this year. This way future years is not a big cap hit so it won't keep us front signing others.

    $50 million on Cousins this year, hypothetically. We still have a **** ton of cap. Who would we not be able to sign that we would be targeting?
    Johnnyi pretty much summed it up for me.

    A pair of top level CBs are going to run you 30 or more.
    A top edge rusher is another 15-20
    2 good lineman is going to run you 20
    Resigning ASJ and a few other players will cost around 10
    That's 75-80 right there.
    Presuming Mo is gone we will clear another 20 and get close to the 100 mil mark but then you need a QB and space to sign your rookies. You have around 15-20 to truly sign a QB. (In this scenario)
    You could of course go for mid level players and hope they perform and then still sign Cousins but then he's out there with less than elite players and that's what he had in washington and they are saying goodbye to him. I don't think he can succeed without high level talent around him. He doesn't make players better. For the Jets to win now, that's the QB you break the bank for, not a guy who is very good, a guy who is great.

    Pick up the type of players Johnny and I suggested and the Jets will turn around quickly.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Kinko, with the cap space we have, we could seriously front load his deal, let's say a whopping $50 million this year. This way future years is not a big cap hit so it won't keep us front signing others.

    $50 million on Cousins this year, hypothetically. We still have a **** ton of cap. Who would we not be able to sign that we would be targeting?
    Problem with front loading contracts, he could holdout towards the end of his contract ie. Mevis.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Kinko, with the cap space we have, we could seriously front load his deal, let's say a whopping $50 million this year. This way future years is not a big cap hit so it won't keep us front signing others.

    $50 million on Cousins this year, hypothetically. We still have a **** ton of cap. Who would we not be able to sign that we would be targeting?
    That's ridiculous. For that kind of money he better be the next Jesus in cleats! Every pass he throws better be a TD!

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulBrotha View Post
    That's ridiculous. For that kind of money he better be the next Jesus in cleats! Every pass he throws better be a TD!
    I just imagined jesus in cleats on the cross wearing a jets jersey




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  9. #129
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    Cousins free agent chart;
    Teams considered interested and cap available;
    NYJ=84,721,136
    DEN=25,918,793
    CLE-110,723762
    MIN-53,749,388
    JAK=28,072,480
    BUF=29,356,937
    ARI=22,459,467
    MIA--8,285,209

    ANY TEAM WITH LESS THAN 30M WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO BE IN THE RUNNING. THAT LEAVES CLE, NYJ, AND MINN AS MOST LIKELY. I THINK THE VIKINGS WILL BE THE TEAM.

  10. #130
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    Very interesting to see the people who are heavily against getting Kirk because of the money aspect. If you don't think he is a good enough quarterback, fine... but money shouldn't be the concern for why the Jets should not get Kirk. Money in the NFL comes and goes, any team that has cap issues is easily able to circumvent them and move along in a 2-3 year span, most times in the same offseason. As you all can see, the Jets went from being slightly cash strapped and up against the cap after the first Macagnan-Bowles year to having up to 100 million 2 seasons later. Money simply is too easy to move around in the NFL to be worried about how big of a cheque a player signs. It truly rarely ever has a significant impact on the actual team. Steelers are in cap hell every offseason and manage to be elite contenders every single year, for example. If the Jets give Kirk a big contract, the reality is that it won't be able to stop the Jets from adding necessary players to make a run. What would stop us from doing so would be his performance and drafting poorly, something we know all too well about.

    For me, if I am the Jets front office, I do everything I can to get Kirk. For one, I believe in his talent immensely. Many people are saying he is fringe top 15 quarterback. I don't buy that from the games and statistics I have seen. Kirk had a great season last year... his franchise signed Terrelle Pryor to be his most dangerous outside target and he had an incredibly awful year. Besides that, he was left with a mediocre slot talent in Crowder (he's far from a Jarvis Landry difference maker), and an oft-injured tight end who is special but simply doesn't play enough without being knicked up. Doctson is still extremely raw and was being asked to do way too much in that offense. He also has a run game that is far from special and Chris Thompson--- Leon Washington Jr.--- was injured and took away yet another huge aspect of his game. All that being said, he still had a 64% completion percentage, 27 touchdowns and a fine 93.9 QBR. Thing is, that is a very average season for him. Kirk is what he is... incredibly consistent with difference making potential. I'd buy that considering what this franchise has had otherwise.

    I'm not saying we are getting Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady by signing him. Nobody should be. But, at the very same time, we get the best free agent QB since Peyton Manning. And beyond that, there probably has never been a better free agent QB to hit the market (Drew Brees going to NO when he did was not as highly touted a player as Kirk was).

    The draft is and will always be a total crapshoot. I've done a lot of research on draft trends and success rate and the reality is that drafting an average player is most likely. Finding a franchise player is less likely than drafting a bust. The idea that we draft a quarterback that is as good as Kirk is not likely. Hindsight is beautiful for assessing talent so I encourage those interested enough to go look at draft previews from the quarterbacks that simply do not make it. Read about Mark Sanchez and what the draft community thought he would be as opposed to what we had. Go look and see how many people thought Kizer would be a better pro than Deshaun Watson. He might still be but it definitely hasn't started that way. Yes, all Jet fans would love a Carson Wentz. Reality is that finding a Carson Wentz isn't as easy as drafting one of the top QBs in the draft and expecting it to work out the same way. Often times, it doesn't.

    I take Cousins without thinking twice about Woody Johnson's pockets and do as needed to build a team around him. It's time to find a consistent franchise QB. For Christ sakes, the best quarterback in team history had his knees shot to hell and threw more picks than touchdowns, last playing for us almost 50 years ago. Let's do better.
    Last edited by jetsforever; 02-24-2018 at 03:06 PM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsforever View Post
    Very interesting to see the people who are heavily against getting Kirk because of the money aspect. If you don't think he is a good enough quarterback, fine... but money shouldn't be the concern for why the Jets should not get Kirk. Money in the NFL comes and goes, any team that has cap issues is easily able to circumvent them and move along in a 2-3 year span, most times in the same offseason. As you all can see, the Jets went from being slightly cash strapped and up against the cap after the first Macagnan-Bowles year to having up to 100 million 2 seasons later. Money simply is too easy to move around in the NFL to be worried about how big of a cheque a player signs. It truly rarely ever has a significant impact on the actual team. Steelers are in cap hell every offseason and manage to be elite contenders every single year, for example. If the Jets give Kirk a big contract, the reality is that it won't be able to stop the Jets from adding necessary players to make a run. What would stop us from doing so would be his performance and drafting poorly, something we know all too well about.

    For me, if I am the Jets front office, I do everything I can to get Kirk. For one, I believe in his talent immensely. Many people are saying he is fringe top 15 quarterback. I don't buy that from the games and statistics I have seen. Kirk had a great season last year... his franchise signed Terrelle Pryor to be his most dangerous outside target and he had an incredibly awful year. Besides that, he was left with a mediocre slot talent in Crowder (he's far from a Jarvis Landry difference maker), and an oft-injured tight end who is special but simply doesn't play enough without being knicked up. Doctson is still extremely raw and was being asked to do way too much in that offense. He also has a run game that is far from special and Chris Thompson--- Leon Washington Jr.--- was injured and took away yet another huge aspect of his game. All that being said, he still had a 64% completion percentage, 27 touchdowns and a fine 93.9 QBR. Thing is, that is a very average season for him. Kirk is what he is... incredibly consistent with difference making potential. I'd buy that considering what this franchise has had otherwise.

    I'm not saying we are getting Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady by signing him. Nobody should be. But, at the very same time, we get the best free agent QB since Peyton Manning. And beyond that, there probably has never been a better free agent QB to hit the market (Drew Brees going to NO when he did was not as highly touted a player as Kirk was).

    The draft is and will always be a total crapshoot. I've done a lot of research on draft trends and success rate and the reality is that drafting an average player is most likely. Finding a franchise player is less likely than drafting a bust. The idea that we draft a quarterback that is as good as Kirk is not likely. Hindsight is beautiful for assessing talent so I encourage those interested enough to go look at draft previews from the quarterbacks that simply do not make it. Read about Mark Sanchez and what the draft community thought he would be as opposed to what we had. Go look and see how many people thought Kizer would be a better pro than Deshaun Watson. He might still be but it definitely hasn't started that way. Yes, all Jet fans would love a Carson Wentz. Reality is that finding a Carson Wentz isn't as easy as drafting one of the top QBs in the draft and expecting it to work out the same way. Often times, it doesn't.

    I take Cousins without thinking twice about Woody Johnson's pockets and do as needed to build a team around him. It's time to find a consistent franchise QB. For Christ sakes, the best quarterback in team history had his knees shot to hell and threw more picks than touchdowns, last playing for us almost 50 years ago. Let's do better.
    Yes, I will agree with one thing that you said....He's not Tom Brady and I'll go even further....Tom Brady plays for a $20 million dollar contract that allows his team to get great supporting pieces like an all-pro wide receiver, tight end and Offensive Line. Giving Cousins, who is inferior to Brady, $35 million to $50 million and not providing all those supporting players leaves the Jets with a mediocre ceiling and some of us do not want to be mediocre forever.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsforever View Post
    Very interesting to see the people who are heavily against getting Kirk because of the money aspect. If you don't think he is a good enough quarterback, fine... but money shouldn't be the concern for why the Jets should not get Kirk. Money in the NFL comes and goes, any team that has cap issues is easily able to circumvent them and move along in a 2-3 year span, most times in the same offseason. As you all can see, the Jets went from being slightly cash strapped and up against the cap after the first Macagnan-Bowles year to having up to 100 million 2 seasons later. Money simply is too easy to move around in the NFL to be worried about how big of a cheque a player signs. It truly rarely ever has a significant impact on the actual team. Steelers are in cap hell every offseason and manage to be elite contenders every single year, for example. If the Jets give Kirk a big contract, the reality is that it won't be able to stop the Jets from adding necessary players to make a run. What would stop us from doing so would be his performance and drafting poorly, something we know all too well about.

    For me, if I am the Jets front office, I do everything I can to get Kirk. For one, I believe in his talent immensely. Many people are saying he is fringe top 15 quarterback. I don't buy that from the games and statistics I have seen. Kirk had a great season last year... his franchise signed Terrelle Pryor to be his most dangerous outside target and he had an incredibly awful year. Besides that, he was left with a mediocre slot talent in Crowder (he's far from a Jarvis Landry difference maker), and an oft-injured tight end who is special but simply doesn't play enough without being knicked up. Doctson is still extremely raw and was being asked to do way too much in that offense. He also has a run game that is far from special and Chris Thompson--- Leon Washington Jr.--- was injured and took away yet another huge aspect of his game. All that being said, he still had a 64% completion percentage, 27 touchdowns and a fine 93.9 QBR. Thing is, that is a very average season for him. Kirk is what he is... incredibly consistent with difference making potential. I'd buy that considering what this franchise has had otherwise.

    I'm not saying we are getting Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady by signing him. Nobody should be. But, at the very same time, we get the best free agent QB since Peyton Manning. And beyond that, there probably has never been a better free agent QB to hit the market (Drew Brees going to NO when he did was not as highly touted a player as Kirk was).

    The draft is and will always be a total crapshoot. I've done a lot of research on draft trends and success rate and the reality is that drafting an average player is most likely. Finding a franchise player is less likely than drafting a bust. The idea that we draft a quarterback that is as good as Kirk is not likely. Hindsight is beautiful for assessing talent so I encourage those interested enough to go look at draft previews from the quarterbacks that simply do not make it. Read about Mark Sanchez and what the draft community thought he would be as opposed to what we had. Go look and see how many people thought Kizer would be a better pro than Deshaun Watson. He might still be but it definitely hasn't started that way. Yes, all Jet fans would love a Carson Wentz. Reality is that finding a Carson Wentz isn't as easy as drafting one of the top QBs in the draft and expecting it to work out the same way. Often times, it doesn't.

    I take Cousins without thinking twice about Woody Johnson's pockets and do as needed to build a team around him. It's time to find a consistent franchise QB. For Christ sakes, the best quarterback in team history had his knees shot to hell and threw more picks than touchdowns, last playing for us almost 50 years ago. Let's do better.
    I don't think he's good enough to merit that money when we need that money to fix other holes. He's a good QB. He's not a great one. If i wanted an Audi, I wouldn't give Audi money for a High level Ford. I would get a car that worked till the Audi was available




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    Yes, I will agree with one thing that you said....He's not Tom Brady and I'll go even further....Tom Brady plays for a $20 million dollar contract that allows his team to get great supporting pieces like an all-pro wide receiver, tight end and Offensive Line. Giving Cousins, who is inferior to Brady, $35 million to $50 million and not providing all those supporting players leaves the Jets with a mediocre ceiling and some of us do not want to be mediocre forever.
    Look at recently signed quarterback prices around the league. Brady plays at a discounted rate and is an anomaly. Comparing to something that is not typical is counterproductive. On top of that, it is naive to think that it is impossible to build a capable team around an expensive quarterback. The Patriots have elite talent because they draft elite talent (Gronk), develop excellent talent (Edelman) and wisely invest in inexpensive talent to fit their schemes (Hogan). Also, their talent is made better by the play around them. Shying away from paying a quarterback so you can afford special talent is one strategy, it also halts upside.

    Signing Cousins also doesn't limit the Jets into mediocrity. Building around Cousins is the Jets front office responsibility and prevents mediocrity. Cousins guarantees at least mediocrity... building a team around the quarterback is what gets the Jets closer to actually winning a title.

    Also, it's not your money. What is the big sweat? Teams with elite quarterbacks don't let their other superstars vanish. It simply doesn't happen. Worst case situation if the Jets land Cousins is he is awful and we have to reset in 2-3 years again. He's talented enough that it is far worth the risk because praying a Teddy Bridgewater or AJ Mccarron on some cheap deal is randomly going to save the franchise is a ****ing pipedream.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I don't think he's good enough to merit that money when we need that money to fix other holes. He's a good QB. He's not a great one. If i wanted an Audi, I wouldn't give Audi money for a High level Ford. I would get a car that worked till the Audi was available
    When does the Audi become available? It doesn't necessarily ever. Teams don't trade franchise quarterbacks, mediocre quarterbacks don't often hit free agency and drafting someone that ever reaches the level of even a "high level Ford" is incredibly rare. The audi hasn't come even close to this area since 1969 and the second best quarterback in this team's history probably isn't as talented as what is available here.

    Also, maybe, just maybe, that high level Ford is good enough that on some occassions it even looks like that Audi.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsforever View Post

    When does the Audi become available? It doesn't necessarily ever. Teams don't trade franchise quarterbacks, mediocre quarterbacks don't often hit free agency and drafting someone that ever reaches the level of even a "high level Ford" is incredibly rare. The audi hasn't come even close to this area since 1969 and the second best quarterback in this team's history probably isn't as talented as what is available here.

    Also, maybe, just maybe, that high level Ford is good enough that on some occassions it even looks like that Audi.
    Touche

    I think there is an Audi in this draft.

    I don't think the high level ford can cross the tundra without the type of additions the Audi has as a base car and the Ford doesn't come with those and the price you will pay for it will prohibit you from adding on those additions.

    The Jets don't have the pit crew to make the Ford win and they won't be able to afford the pit crew if they pay for that car.

    My feeling is, you need the pit crew or the Audi. If you can't get the Audi, get the crew and then get the ford, not the other way because while you spend money to upkeep the Ford, you will never have the loot to get the crew.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsforever View Post
    Look at recently signed quarterback prices around the league. Brady plays at a discounted rate and is an anomaly. Comparing to something that is not typical is counterproductive. On top of that, it is naive to think that it is impossible to build a capable team around an expensive quarterback. The Patriots have elite talent because they draft elite talent (Gronk), develop excellent talent (Edelman) and wisely invest in inexpensive talent to fit their schemes (Hogan). Also, their talent is made better by the play around them. Shying away from paying a quarterback so you can afford special talent is one strategy, it also halts upside.

    Signing Cousins also doesn't limit the Jets into mediocrity. Building around Cousins is the Jets front office responsibility and prevents mediocrity. Cousins guarantees at least mediocrity... building a team around the quarterback is what gets the Jets closer to actually winning a title.

    Also, it's not your money. What is the big sweat? Teams with elite quarterbacks don't let their other superstars vanish. It simply doesn't happen. Worst case situation if the Jets land Cousins is he is awful and we have to reset in 2-3 years again. He's talented enough that it is far worth the risk because praying a Teddy Bridgewater or AJ Mccarron on some cheap deal is randomly going to save the franchise is a ****ing pipedream.



    When does the Audi become available? It doesn't necessarily ever. Teams don't trade franchise quarterbacks, mediocre quarterbacks don't often hit free agency and drafting someone that ever reaches the level of even a "high level Ford" is incredibly rare. The audi hasn't come even close to this area since 1969 and the second best quarterback in this team's history probably isn't as talented as what is available here.

    Also, maybe, just maybe, that high level Ford is good enough that on some occassions it even looks like that Audi.
    I think this an extremely deep draft in the QB position.

    When I see Kirk I get flashbacks of Neil O’Donnell.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

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