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  1. #181
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    Colleges don't give a **** about race they give a **** about #s. anyway they can grow future enrollment they will. sometimes that means giving preference to areas you want to increase recruiting in. sometimes it is to increase enrollment in a program they are trying to build. Could it means race at times? I wouldn't doubt it but one thing is for sure though Vinylman has no idea what he is talking about here and his story is dubious

    i try to use good vocabulary words for Vlade!
    Last edited by ewing; 02-13-2018 at 05:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Certainly not. ICE reversed their decision because he sought sanctuary in a church and they received so much backlash from their plan to deport him.

    ICE doesn't get credit for getting caught trying to do this and having to reverse their decision because everyone told them how messed up they were.
    who made the decision to allow this person to stay?







    would it be fair to question what would be fair to illegal immigrants compared to what would be fair to actual American citizens? why do any illegal immigrants get to be a priority for anything over those that are actually Americans?


    I have a possible suggestion/solution to DACA. anyone currently in DACA can not only be protected but get on a path to citizenship. this includes those that are adults, which is a higher percent of DACA than children. but with this there can be no more entering DACA. from whatever point this starts then no child illegally crossing the border can be protected anymore. there can not continue to be children flooding across the border and be protected. that's not how immigration is supposed to work. this is also why a new wall is necessary to better prevent illegals from crossing the border.

    the anti-Trump movement seems to be getting dumber

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    would it be fair to question what would be fair to illegal immigrants compared to what would be fair to actual American citizens? why do any illegal immigrants get to be a priority for anything over those that are actually Americans?

    I have a possible suggestion/solution to DACA. anyone currently in DACA can not only be protected but get on a path to citizenship. this includes those that are adults, which is a higher percent of DACA than children. but with this there can be no more entering DACA. from whatever point this starts then no child illegally crossing the border can be protected anymore. there can not continue to be children flooding across the border and be protected. that's not how immigration is supposed to work. this is also why a new wall is necessary to better prevent illegals from crossing the border.
    I'd personally be OK with a Republican/Democrat trade off where Democrats get a path to citizenship for DACA recipients and they keep existing "chain" migration policies in place, in exchange Democrats fund the wall, so your solution seems fine to me in broad terms.

    But I'm not nearly as militant in my opposition to the wall as many Democrats.

  4. #184
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    Build your wall. But whatever the ultimate costs are, the equal spending must go towards Democratic priorities. Because were not going to let them drain the social safety net because they spent a wholly unnecessary $20B today.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I just posted showing the universities ethnic makeup is not considered in admission.

    I think you are now overcompensating for the fact I caught you in a lie.
    It is considered - the reason schools say that they don't is because it's unconstitutional to openly say it matters when you're creating your class makeup. Most people have no idea what the law is on affirmative action because it's so mired in lies and half-truths, but most people (at least under 40) do know how it works in practice.

    First the US Supreme Court outlawed quotas which are nakedly racist. Then they outlawed what universities started to do instead, which were quotas without set numbers. Controlling law now is under Fisher v. Texas and the conclusion was this:
    In conclusion, the majority reiterated that the University has an ongoing obligation to use available data "to assess whether changing demographics have undermined the need for a race-conscious policy; and to identify the effects, both positive and negative, of the affirmative-action measures it deems necessary."
    Basically in practice it means universities are allowed to use ethnic data as "plus factors" when considering an applicant's admission. So, it is soft quotas and we see how it works in practice because Asians and whites must score much higher on standardized tests (sometimes as much as a standard deviation higher) than blacks and Hispanics to get in to the same school.

    This decision (Fisher) was very controversial, split on 4-3 lines, and I anticipate will be overturned at some point. I don't doubt Vinylman's experience as I've heard it many times. The stranger thing about how universities do these considerations is that Jews and some southern Asians (including Arabs) are considered white in this system, while pure-blooded Spaniards from South America are considered Hispanic.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    It is considered - the reason schools say that they don't is because it's unconstitutional to openly say it matters when you're creating your class makeup. Most people have no idea what the law is on affirmative action because it's so mired in lies and half-truths, but most people (at least under 40) do know how it works in practice.

    First the US Supreme Court outlawed quotas which are nakedly racist. Then they outlawed what universities started to do instead, which were quotas without set numbers. Controlling law now is under Fisher v. Texas and the conclusion was this:

    Basically in practice it means universities are allowed to use ethnic data as "plus factors" when considering an applicant's admission. So, it is soft quotas and we see how it works in practice because Asians and whites must score much higher on standardized tests (sometimes as much as a standard deviation higher) than blacks and Hispanics to get in to the same school.

    This decision (Fisher) was very controversial, split on 4-3 lines, and I anticipate will be overturned at some point. I don't doubt Vinylman's experience as I've heard it many times. The stranger thing about how universities do these considerations is that Jews and some southern Asians (including Arabs) are considered white in this system, while pure-blooded Spaniards from South America are considered Hispanic.
    I understand everything you said, except Florida specifically bars the bolded. So while I'm sure many liberal universities do indeed use "soft" quotas, University of Florida does not, because they are not allowed to by the Florida government.

    The story is pretty absurd on it's face anyway. University of Florida's affirmative action was so bad a white female couldn't get accepted there but Harvard's affirmative action was so less restrictive she could get accepted there? It is the first time anyone has accused Harvard's affirmative action of being less progressive than University of Florida's.

    But maybe University of Florida does factor in race even though they are prohibited from doing so by Florida law and they say they do not. But it's doubtful given that their rate of black and Hispanic students is not disproportionately more than the State's demographics (neither is the number of white students lower). More to the point, even if they only let in a handful of white females, what are the chances one with a 4.45 GPA and a high SAT score would not be admitted? Are there that many white females (or white people in general) with 4.45+ GPA's applying to the University of Florida?

    Doubtful. Which sums up the entire story.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I understand everything you said, except Florida specifically bars the bolded. So while I'm sure many liberal universities do indeed use "soft" quotas, University of Florida does not, because they are not allowed to by the Florida government.

    The story is pretty absurd on it's face anyway. University of Florida's affirmative action was so bad a white female couldn't get accepted there but Harvard's affirmative action was so less restrictive she could get accepted there? It is the first time anyone has accused Harvard's affirmative action of being less progressive than University of Florida's.

    But maybe University of Florida does factor in race even though they are prohibited from doing so by Florida law and they say they do not. But it's doubtful given that their rate of black and Hispanic students is not disproportionately more than the State's demographics (neither is the number of white students lower). More to the point, even if they only let in a handful of white females, what are the chances one with a 4.45 GPA and a high SAT score would not be admitted? Are there that many white females (or white people in general) with 4.45+ GPA's applying to the University of Florida?

    Doubtful. Which sums up the entire story.
    I have no idea about the University of Florida - I know it is very difficult to get in to the best state schools out of state so perhaps that is in play here but I'm sure the school still asks for race to be listed even if they're not allowed to say it's part of their decision.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Build your wall. But whatever the ultimate costs are, the equal spending must go towards Democratic priorities. Because were not going to let them drain the social safety net because they spent a wholly unnecessary $20B today.
    I thought Mexico was paying for the wall?

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    I thought Mexico was paying for the wall?
    They were but it turns out that 20B pesos wont be enough.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Build your wall. But whatever the ultimate costs are, the equal spending must go towards Democratic priorities. Because were not going to let them drain the social safety net because they spent a wholly unnecessary $20B today.
    that's not how it works. a wall to better keep out illegals benefits everyone in America regardless of political party. it was Democrats who favored a wall/fence in the past.






    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    I thought Mexico was paying for the wall?
    did you interpret that Trump/America would send Mexico a bill?
    did Trump ever say when Mexico would pay?

    the anti-Trump movement seems to be getting dumber

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    that's not how it works. a wall to better keep out illegals benefits everyone in America regardless of political party. it was Democrats who favored a wall/fence in the past.








    did you interpret that Trump/America would send Mexico a bill?
    did Trump ever say when Mexico would pay?
    First your wrong and second you lie.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No, you don't. I posted all the links.

    FACT: UF is prohibited from considering race in their applications

    FACT: UF's white enrollment is roughly proportional the white population in Florida.


    I am not ignorant, you appear to be lying.


    I will say your entire story is illuminating on how you and most of the far right reason, you ignore facts that contradict your point and make **** up. Sorry, I'm not buying it.
    I am going to respond one last time

    You just don't understand the "work around" they have put in place to increase minorities at the schools to the detriment of MORE QUALIFIED whites

    the base requirement to get into the UF for general students is a 3.75 GPA and a SAT score of 1050

    both girls met that qualification

    However, what the school does is ACCEPTS all minorities that meet those basic criteria while not accepting all whites that meet that basic criteria

    It isn't a big deal to me but you real don't understand how it works

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Colleges don't give a **** about race they give a **** about #s. anyway they can grow future enrollment they will. sometimes that means giving preference to areas you want to increase recruiting in. sometimes it is to increase enrollment in a program they are trying to build. Could it means race at times? I wouldn't doubt it but one thing is for sure though Vinylman has no idea what he is talking about here and his story is dubious

    i try to use good vocabulary words for Vlade!
    you are wrong... and horribly wrong I might add when it comes to public schools

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    I am going to respond one last time

    You just don't understand the "work around" they have put in place to increase minorities at the schools to the detriment of MORE QUALIFIED whites

    the base requirement to get into the UF for general students is a 3.75 GPA and a SAT score of 1050

    both girls met that qualification

    However, what the school does is ACCEPTS all minorities that meet those basic criteria while not accepting all whites that meet that basic criteria

    It isn't a big deal to me but you real don't understand how it works
    My daughter goes to stupidly liberal Midwest school. They give exceptions to minorities and kids who attend rural school districts openly. I dont mind it as a practice though as our public schools vary so much in what they offer. If these kids all had the same opportunities and resources to excel, Id be all for eliminating many of the qualifiers. Id like to reform the entire system though k-12 and college.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    I am going to respond one last time

    You just don't understand the "work around" they have put in place to increase minorities at the schools to the detriment of MORE QUALIFIED whites

    the base requirement to get into the UF for general students is a 3.75 GPA and a SAT score of 1050

    both girls met that qualification

    However, what the school does is ACCEPTS all minorities that meet those basic criteria while not accepting all whites that meet that basic criteria

    It isn't a big deal to me but you real don't understand how it works
    correct. That is exactly how it works. In reality, if they want to give advantages to kids from tough areas, they should drop the race, and just base it off zip codes.

    I really don't care either, just is what it is. The advantages to being white are still very real, so we need to live with a counterbalance occurring in certain areas. Suck it up.

    But what it does mean, is that you need to understand having a white kid in school now, they must do better, and FAR better, than minimum standards, or they will be overlooked.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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