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  1. #151
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I get that there are some very sad cases, and each case should be examined to a large degree. But where do we draw the line on illegal immigration? At what point do we say, "you have been here illegally long enough, time to pay the price"?

    The system has failed. I am all for trying to allow illegals to correct their mistakes, versus just deporting them. Is giving them a grace period to pay all fines, back taxes, etc, agreeable, before deportation? If they fail to meet these requirements, are we ok to deport?

    Of course Dems want them here, amnestied, whatever it takes, those are thousands of votes they can count on. And Reps want them gone, for the exact same reason. But what is actually fair?
    The problem, as in the case for many of the Dreamers, is they cannot legally obtain US citizenship without amending our current laws.

    So the question of "you have been here illegally long enough, time to pay the price" is that many of them would have obtained legal citizenship by now if they were able to, but they cannot.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Oh I get what is fair to one person, isn't to another. I am just asking in general, what is a fair immigration response at this point in time? We know it's been abused for decades. Now what?
    I guess it depends on how you define fair. Because I think getting items for far cheaper than I would have without illegal immigrants doing work and sending manufacturing to countries that pay pennies on the dollar to what we would is fair. I think more money in my wallet that doesn’t go to someone in this country making hundreds of times what some person I will never know gets paid is fair.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    The problem, as in the case for many of the Dreamers, is they cannot legally obtain US citizenship without amending our current laws.

    So the question of "you have been here illegally long enough, time to pay the price" is that many of them would have obtained legal citizenship by now if they were able to, but they cannot.
    mmmmm, do we know that? Where do you live, do you mind me asking? Because I lived in Houston for a long time, and I can tell you, illegal immigrants have it pretty easy in reality. We have never made the process of becoming a citizen an easy one, I absolutely agree with you. But we haven't ever made the consequences worth doing it correctly either.

    I get all crimes are different, but these are people who are actively breaking a law. How much rope do we allow?

    All this being said, I am all for simply giving a grace period to file paperwork, and for the IRS to determine back taxes owed, etc. I do think voting rights, and many other options should be penalized for anyone doing it this way, but at least it keeps them here, gives them a social security number, and allows them to be documented residents/citizens of the US.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  4. #154
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    so I thought I would throw this in here for a good laugh and to get some left leaning spin

    my youngest applied to a certain University... Her credentials are as follows:

    GPA 4.45
    Class Rank 8 out of 1115
    SAT Score 1490
    Varsity Lettered in 2 sports
    Senior Class Vice President (held an office all HS years)
    1200 hours of documented Service Hours


    Her best friends credentials... who happens to be a DACA participant

    GPA 3.75
    Class Rank 108 out of 1115
    SAT Score 1150
    No Sports
    No Club Activity
    800 hours of documented service hours


    Guess which one got into the University?

    That's right... her friend

    MAGA... one set aside at a time

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I guess it depends on how you define fair. Because I think getting items for far cheaper than I would have without illegal immigrants doing work and sending manufacturing to countries that pay pennies on the dollar to what we would is fair. I think more money in my wallet that doesn’t go to someone in this country making hundreds of times what some person I will never know gets paid is fair.
    and that is a fair point. To all those conservatives out there waiving around the flag, to the people stating, "get out!", are they fully aware they are the same people voting for less taxes, less government, and complain non-stop about the man digging into their wallets, will see a cost of goods increase if you get your wish?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    and that is a fair point. To all those conservatives out there waiving around the flag, to the people stating, "get out!", are they fully aware they are the same people voting for less taxes, less government, and complain non-stop about the man digging into their wallets, will see a cost of goods increase if you get your wish?
    meh... what do we get cheaper due to illegal immigrants?... illegal immigrants just keep the jobs from going to other underdeveloped countries faster

    what do you think costs more... florida oranges or Brazilian oranges... that's right florida oranges.

    People really don't understand how the labor market works in relationship to how businesses price their services or goods...

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    so I thought I would throw this in here for a good laugh and to get some left leaning spin

    my youngest applied to a certain University... Her credentials are as follows:

    GPA 4.45
    Class Rank 8 out of 1115
    SAT Score 1490
    Varsity Lettered in 2 sports
    Senior Class Vice President (held an office all HS years)
    1200 hours of documented Service Hours


    Her best friends credentials... who happens to be a DACA participant

    GPA 3.75
    Class Rank 108 out of 1115
    SAT Score 1150
    No Sports
    No Club Activity
    800 hours of documented service hours


    Guess which one got into the University?

    That's right... her friend

    MAGA... one set aside at a time
    There are probably details here we are missing I'm sure. Which university?

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    America
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    so I thought I would throw this in here for a good laugh and to get some left leaning spin

    my youngest applied to a certain University... Her credentials are as follows:

    GPA 4.45
    Class Rank 8 out of 1115
    SAT Score 1490
    Varsity Lettered in 2 sports
    Senior Class Vice President (held an office all HS years)
    1200 hours of documented Service Hours


    Her best friends credentials... who happens to be a DACA participant

    GPA 3.75
    Class Rank 108 out of 1115
    SAT Score 1150
    No Sports
    No Club Activity
    800 hours of documented service hours


    Guess which one got into the University?

    That's right... her friend

    MAGA... one set aside at a time
    What program of study were they applying for? Same program or something different?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    and that is a fair point. To all those conservatives out there waiving around the flag, to the people stating, "get out!", are they fully aware they are the same people voting for less taxes, less government, and complain non-stop about the man digging into their wallets, will see a cost of goods increase if you get your wish?
    I don't give politicians and partisan voters much more credit than being able to tell what they can see with their own eyes. If someone has never voted across the aisle or outside of partisan affiliation, then they likely don't have many brain cells to spare to dedicate to difficult decision making and processing.
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    mmmmm, do we know that? Where do you live, do you mind me asking? Because I lived in Houston for a long time, and I can tell you, illegal immigrants have it pretty easy in reality. We have never made the process of becoming a citizen an easy one, I absolutely agree with you. But we haven't ever made the consequences worth doing it correctly either.

    I get all crimes are different, but these are people who are actively breaking a law. How much rope do we allow?

    All this being said, I am all for simply giving a grace period to file paperwork, and for the IRS to determine back taxes owed, etc. I do think voting rights, and many other options should be penalized for anyone doing it this way, but at least it keeps them here, gives them a social security number, and allows them to be documented residents/citizens of the US.
    First Bolded: yes, we do:

    https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2018...ecome-citizens

    In fact, the entire debate on DACA is about giving them a path to citizenship.

    Second Bolded: I'm not saying this applies to you, but it's difficult for people to believe Republicans are not opposing immigration simply to block future voters when you and they propose things like restricting their voting rights even after they've been granted citizenship.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    meh... what do we get cheaper due to illegal immigrants?... illegal immigrants just keep the jobs from going to other underdeveloped countries faster

    what do you think costs more... florida oranges or Brazilian oranges... that's right florida oranges.

    People really don't understand how the labor market works in relationship to how businesses price their services or goods...
    you are telling me that goods from other countries that don't have built in regulation costs are cheaper? Noooooo

    I get how that works. However, there is still an economic impact to having cheaper labor in house. The cost of goods will rise even further if that labor disappears. That being said, automation will reach new heights to keep up with demand going south when cost of good rises due to labor shortage.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    There are probably details here we are missing I'm sure. Which university?
    lolololololololol

    both undeclared... there is nothing to miss... it is the University of Florida

    What is funny is my daughter wasn't even considering going there but she knew it was hard for white females to get in and just wanted to prove a point... She lost a $10 bet to me because I said she wouldn't get in

    My daughter is attending Harvard in the fall .... she has been accepted at all 5 Ivy's she applied to.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    First Bolded: yes, we do:

    https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2018...ecome-citizens

    In fact, the entire debate on DACA is about giving them a path to citizenship.

    Second Bolded: I'm not saying this applies to you, but it's difficult for people to believe Republicans are not opposing immigration simply to block future voters when you and they propose things like restricting their voting rights even after they've been granted citizenship.
    I apologize, let me rephrase-do we know illegal immigrants actually want citizenship?

    To your second point, duh, that is exactly why Republicans want immigration in general tougher. Immigrants vote for democrats.

    My view is, if you were here illegally, knowingly, I am sorry, I don't feel you need the right to vote. It was one example. We remove voting rights from our own citizens for certain crimes. If the biggest sticking point for politicians is votes (that is always THE sticking point), then remove it.

    You came here illegally. Unless you can show you didn't know you were here illegally, some rights need to be stripped. What motivation does it give anyone to come in and do it right, if there are literally no penalties for doing it wrong? May we well get rid of the immigration process all together and let everyone in, give them a SS card, screw vetting, and have a free for all.

    People do realize that people knowingly here illegally, are also knowingly committing a crime, right?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I don't give politicians and partisan voters much more credit than being able to tell what they can see with their own eyes. If someone has never voted across the aisle or outside of partisan affiliation, then they likely don't have many brain cells to spare to dedicate to difficult decision making and processing.
    amen dude

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    There are probably details here we are missing I'm sure. Which university?
    perhaps her friend wasn't white?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    you are telling me that goods from other countries that don't have built in regulation costs are cheaper? Noooooo

    I get how that works. However, there is still an economic impact to having cheaper labor in house. The cost of goods will rise even further if that labor disappears. That being said, automation will reach new heights to keep up with demand going south when cost of good rises due to labor shortage.
    He used illegal US labor as saving him money on products in America when it brings no relative value vis a vis the world market place for goods and service... the only items cost will go up on is service industries (restaurants, etc...) and that would be more than offset with increased wages across the board....

    Illegal US labor is meaningless because we are in a global labor market at this point

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