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  1. #31
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    Trading KP would literally be the stupidest move any team had ever made in NBA History. No team is willing to trade what KP's really worth (Boston turned down Nets pick + Brown + Crowder) but the Knicks might be stupid enough to settle for less.

    The guy during the first month of the season was a legitimate MVP candidate, so it's not like he's never shown flashes of being a star (I'd say a full month is a pretty good sample size.)

    I remember when we drafted the dude people were advocating patience since he was a "project" and would "take a few years to develop." Well, he's putting up 23+ ppg in year 3 and now we're upset? What happened to all the patience preaching? Lol.

    That being said, Lee, KOQ, and Kanter needed to be fire sold last week. Frank needs to start and Beasley should be traded as well, for a TPE if need be.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYY 26 to 7 View Post
    I said what I said about KP wearing down a bit and dropping in efficiency but I am not down on KP and haven't changed my mind about his development. I have always had a slight concern about his stamina and durability but I'm not close to jumping ship or anything.
    Glad to hear that can't believe others are flipping to trading him knicks fan expectations are scary

  3. #33
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    A healthy Timmy and bringing up Burke could totally grant the Knicks 10-15 wins more than they would with the present team as is without Timmy. Takes a lot of pressure off of KP and the Knicks start rolling again.Jack has played to one of his highest levels in years. He is still a stellar backup. I want so bad to like Frank and have great expectations for him but he really hasn't showed anything and is still a question mark. So if you bring up Burke, what do you do with Jack and Frank? One of them gets less minutes, and if Burke plays anything like he is lighting up the G league, and you want to keep Frank, then Jack's minutes get cut. On paper, this team is not that bad, good enough for a playoff spot, but they still have not put the pieces together in the end game and that's on Jeff.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJAF View Post
    A healthy Timmy and bringing up Burke could totally grant the Knicks 10-15 wins more than they would with the present team as is without Timmy. Takes a lot of pressure off of KP and the Knicks start rolling again.Jack has played to one of his highest levels in years. He is still a stellar backup. I want so bad to like Frank and have great expectations for him but he really hasn't showed anything and is still a question mark. So if you bring up Burke, what do you do with Jack and Frank? One of them gets less minutes, and if Burke plays anything like he is lighting up the G league, and you want to keep Frank, then Jack's minutes get cut. On paper, this team is not that bad, good enough for a playoff spot, but they still have not put the pieces together in the end game and that's on Jeff.
    IF Burke can make an impact on our squad, and that's a big IF, then he takes Jack's minutes imo. No other choice. Huge difference between the G League and the NBA though, some fans really need to temper expectations for Burke. I hope he surprises me and can be a bit of a lightning rod but I'm not counting on it.

    Agreed on Timmy. Saying Frank hasn't shown anything just isn't true - he's had multiple 8+ assist games, including an 11 assist game, is a great rebounder for a PG already, projects to be an elite defender at guard (arguably already is) and he's 19. His shot isn't bad either.

    He's a rookie so it's ups and downs. One game he'll do almost nothing on offense, then the next game he scores 8 points, shoots the 3 at nearly 40% and racks up 7 or 8 assists with a few steals and a blocked shot or two. He's 19, expectations require patience. It's on him personally and our coaching staff to work on his weaknesses, ie: penetration, which right now is honestly the only hole in his game (albeit an important hole - needs to be pushed on it).

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    The team needs to continue to shift the roster and mold it for the future. There are a lot of positional crossroads that have to be sorted out and some can be done sooner than later with beneficial results. My two cents on the outlook for the trade deadline,

    http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/yearly/cap/

    PG

    Jack is fine for the rest of the year.

    Frank is fine in this role until he proves he can be more consistent. He should have the go ahead to start next year.

    Sessions needs to be dumped.

    Call up Burke and see what he can do. Try to sign him to the same kind of deal that Chasson Randle got, so the option to have him next year for cheap is there. Given his age, that probably isn't likely though. Can maybe be a nice scoring PG off the bench.

    Baker will be the 3rd PG next year.

    SG

    THJ needs to be slotted to his natural position so his potential growth and comfort can be maximized.

    Lee needs to be traded in part for that reason, and to clear his cap space. Getting a 1st round pick for him should be easy and should be capitalized on. As long as the incoming salary ends before 2019, fine by me.

    Let Dotson get consistent burn as the backup SG and let him take his lumps. Dillon Brooks was drafted #45 overall, has started 32 of 40 games and plays 27 MPG. It's not like he has lit the world on fire (7.6 PPG, 2.8 REB, 1.1 AST, .450/.375/.723 splits) and there's no reason why Dotson couldn't get 16 MPG or so doing the same while learning.

    SF - This position is a complete **** show right now lmao.

    Lance is fine for now but if the right deal is there, go ahead and take it. It's not like there isn't always a vet or G-League player who can be signed short term to fill the same role. Look at Houston picking up Gerald Green recently, for example. Expiring deal + a mid 2nd rounder would be perfectly fine.

    Dougie McBuckets - do you resign him? For the right money I think that's perfectly fine, but what is the right money? $6-8M? If you are offered a late 1st round pick at the deadline because he is a cheap shooter and that team would get his Bird's rights, do you not instantly make it? I think I would.

    PF

    Porzingis is a gift. These midseason collapses are worrisome but he will no doubt be one of the best two-way players in the NBA one day.

    Beasley has played well, but given his age he is not a long term option. He's probably too volatile to expect to get any real offers for at the deadline, especially since he's an expiring with no Bird's rights attached. But if there's a playoff team who has a high-mid 2nd from a previous deal they can move? I'd do that. Otherwise, he can play out this year and continue his journey.

    Would like to see Hicks get his 45 days up here on the back end of the season, but that's not feasible unless Beasley is moved. There is another way though...

    C

    Kanter will be here this season and next. There is no shot in hell that he will get $18M on the market and I can't imagine he and his agent being dumb enough to turn down that option. He is plenty young enough to wait another year and another year with the team will only strengthen his ability to have a solid season. It would be much more attractive to FA suitors for him to have back-to-back starting seasons with his per minute production than just one, so I imagine that will be the plan for him and his agent. At the same time, he isn't good enough to start on a playoff team and is too expensive for a playoff team to add him as a 6th man, so I wouldn't expect any trades.

    KOQ needs to be moved. Take a 2nd round pick and be done with it. Not only is this needed to clear minutes for Willy, but it will also balance the roster as it would clear a way for Hicks to get his 45 days. Even if Hicks was stuck behind KP and Beasley at PF and not getting much burn, it would be nice for the team to get a first hand look at him in practice and see if he's a viable option for a roster spot next year.

    Willy can get backup burn this year and next. Ideally he would play well enough to take the starting job from Kanter at some point next year, but baby steps. He needs a consistent role to play in NBA games to properly develop. Practice can only take you so far.

    Noah will be here until his contract is gone. Whether that is letting him sit through 2019-20 to keep future dead space off or stretching him to make a FA signing in the 2019 offseason, we'll see. 3rd C for the next 2-3 years, unfortunately. But a good locker room guy, at least. Like a super expensive Kurt Thomas in 2012-13...

    Use our pick, I'm guessing it will be in the 8-11 range, to target a SF like Miles Bridges, Mikal Bridges or Kevin Knox. Use another 1st round pick (from Lee) to target a swing guard, SF or PF. Use 2nd round picks for depth options/stash picks.

    2018-19 depth chart

    PG - Frank, Burke?, Baker
    SG - THJ, Dotson/2nd 1st round pick?
    SF - 1st 1st round pick, McDermott?/2nd 1st round pick?
    PF - KP, Hicks?/2nd 1st round pick?
    C - Kanter, Willy, Noah

    Additional roster spots can be from cheap vet signings like Jack or 2nd round picks.


    A starting lineup with no player older than 26 and 3 players who are 23 and younger? A rotation with barely any 30-year olds, if any? Now that's what a rebuild looks like. If that team is competing for a playoff spot, then we're in business. None of this 34 and 32 year old starting backcourt nonsense.
    You had me at this team.
    I like everything about this post




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  6. #36
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    I want KP at a nba gym all summer and get his body better. Him not staying here and going oversees **** up his development a bit in the sense that the training facility at latvia is nowhere near as efficient as him getting it here in the states
    Stay Humble

  7. #37
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    our future is looking good:

    Knicks brace for rotation shake-up as Tim Hardaway nears return

    https://nypost.com/2018/01/11/knicks...-nears-return/


    The availability of Tim Hardaway Jr. for the Knicks in Minnesota on Friday and their ability to win on the road are pretty much the same.

    Both are questionable.

    Hardaway went through another full practice Thursday at the team’s Tarrytown facility. His official listing is “questionable” against the Timberwolves. Hardaway, who last played Nov. 29 because of a lower left leg stress injury, said he needed to visit again with the doctors for clearance.

    “If it was playoffs then I would [play] obviously. But, regular season, you know the guys are out there fighting hard. Time will tell. I’ve still got to make sure I get evaluated and make sure I’m good to go,” said Hardaway, who claimed his third straight workout left him with “more confidence, more rhythm, just trying to get my legs and everything — wind — back up to pace with these guys.”

    Hardaway doesn’t know when the approval might come.

    “Soon. No idea. The week isn’t over yet, so we’ll see,” he said.

    Whenever Hardaway is cleared, the Knicks as currently constituted are in for a shake-up. Guys whose time increased in Hardaway’s absence — Michael Beasley, Lance Thomas — should get reduced minutes.


    “When Tim was playing, we had 11 guys [playing],” coach Jeff Hornacek said. “It could be situational. Lance has done a great job defending some of these guys. When Tim was here, there were nights when Lance didn’t play. There were nights that Mike didn’t play. It’ll probably end up going back when Tim’s at full health and playing the bigger minutes it may go back to that.”

    But first, the Knicks must get Hardaway back. It could be Friday when the Knicks try to improve their 4-14 road record, the third-worst in the NBA behind Atlanta (4-19) and Utah (4-17). It could be Sunday at home against New Orleans.

    The Knicks were 11-10 with Hardaway and have struggled without him, going 8-12, including a double-OT home loss Wednesday to Chicago. Beasley has averaged 16.6 points in Hardaway’s absence — after getting 7.1 before the injury.

    Beasley’s numbers have helped with the offense, which averaged 104.5 before Hardaway’s injury and 102.6 points since. It has been tough watching for Hardaway who obviously wants to play, but insisted he hasn’t played the “I would have done this or that” game while watching.

    “Yeah, it’s difficult but that would be selfish of me. Everybody has a role for this team and anytime someone goes down, only rightfully so that the person behind that individual in and step up and play like there’s no tomorrow,” Hardaway said. “We have guys that definitely have done that throughout this process and kudos to them.”

    “I don’t know about [Friday]. He’ll be questionable,” Hornacek said. “He’s getting better every day. We’ll just talk to him and see how he’s feeling. … If he feels like he’s getting in that game condition — you don’t want to throw a guy out there when he’s been out six, seven weeks.

    “From my side of it, he looks like a guy who’s coming off an injury. He’s doing pretty well. Is he in top game condition yet? No. We can’t expect that yet,” said Hornacek, who indicated he would play it by ear on whether Hardaway starts or comes off the bench when he is considered ready.

    And according to teammates, none of whom are doctors or play them on TV, Hardaway looked ready.

    “He looks good. It looks like he hasn’t missed a beat. I know his wind is probably the only thing that’s been different. He’s got to get back into game shape,” Courtney Lee said. “But other than that, he’s out here making plays, he’s knocking down shots, he’s competing so he looks good.”

    Enes Kanter saw the same.

    “He actually looked really, really good,” Kanter said. “Offensively, defensively, he moved really well, he was competing.”

  8. #38
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    Everyone except KP, Frank, THJR, and I guess Willy, for now, should be traded. Start really trying to win next year if you are able to lose enough to draft that next stud to team with KP

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    Glad to hear that can't believe others are flipping to trading him knicks fan expectations are scary
    I actually agree with you, but you have to at least see the trend of him starting off seasons hot and declining after the first month or so. This is three years in a row now. He has to prove it's just a bad stretch or slump. In past years, he never fully bounced back.

    But yes, all this talk of trading him and doubting him is ridiculous. I was never fully on board with him being the main guy, but I can't truly rule that out. I'm pretty confident that if he's not the main guy, he'll be a great 1B/2 next to someone else. If that happens, he's still a franchise pillar and a player you build around with the hopes of pairing him with a better player or a similarly talented player.

    I also think he'll be fully unlocked when he moves to C and when the Knicks find a playmaking PG. It's too soon to judge KP. Some of the criticisms are definitely fair, but to pass final judgement is crazy.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Everyone except KP, Frank, THJR, and I guess Willy, for now, should be traded. Start really trying to win next year if you are able to lose enough to draft that next stud to team with KP
    Agreed. I might also hold onto Beasley.




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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I actually agree with you, but you have to at least see the trend of him starting off seasons hot and declining after the first month or so. This is three years in a row now. He has to prove it's just a bad stretch or slump. In past years, he never fully bounced back.

    But yes, all this talk of trading him and doubting him is ridiculous. I was never fully on board with him being the main guy, but I can't truly rule that out. I'm pretty confident that if he's not the main guy, he'll be a great 1B/2 next to someone else. If that happens, he's still a franchise pillar and a player you build around with the hopes of pairing him with a better player or a similarly talented player.

    I also think he'll be fully unlocked when he moves to C and when the Knicks find a playmaking PG. It's too soon to judge KP. Some of the criticisms are definitely fair, but to pass final judgement is crazy.
    Yea I mean if there is some kid coming out of the draft that your scouts really think could be the next LeBron or Duncan or the generational talent of the 2020s, you might try to trade KP for him, especially if the staff is worried that KP's tendency to fizzle out 1/4 through the season is tied to his physical frame, his anemia, whatever.

    I really would love to see KP put up another MVP level stretch late in the season, that would ease my worry about his ability to handle a season long workload. You are right, each year he never really came close to emulating his early season success once it fizzled out after 20-30 games.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I actually agree with you, but you have to at least see the trend of him starting off seasons hot and declining after the first month or so. This is three years in a row now. He has to prove it's just a bad stretch or slump. In past years, he never fully bounced back.

    But yes, all this talk of trading him and doubting him is ridiculous. I was never fully on board with him being the main guy, but I can't truly rule that out. I'm pretty confident that if he's not the main guy, he'll be a great 1B/2 next to someone else. If that happens, he's still a franchise pillar and a player you build around with the hopes of pairing him with a better player or a similarly talented player.

    I also think he'll be fully unlocked when he moves to C and when the Knicks find a playmaking PG. It's too soon to judge KP. Some of the criticisms are definitely fair, but to pass final judgement is crazy.
    Fans get disheartened when the face of the franchise isn't living up to the standards set for him by the team/media...
    KP has been sold as the unicorn, now the u-knick-orn... He has been billed as the savior of the franchise. That is not his fault. He has some accountability with it but not all that much.
    We want a guy to be that guy and he looks like he will be and then he's not. People freak.
    KP, as you said is a great pillar for the foundation. Hopefully Tim will also be one and hopefully Frank will also be one. You then need that one transcendent player to flip you over the top. How bright would the knicks future look if they had a guy like Tatum? Or if somehow the knicks could draft a guy like Bamba to play the 5?
    That one other star player changes everything. He makes everyone else job easier.

    With that said, I am also a believer that every player has their price and you have to listen to what people offer.
    If you were offered the number 1 pick in this years draft and a 2020 first round pick and you still had your current lottery pick? I'm not saying I'd do it but I get why people talk about it. It's the hope of getting 2 stars at once.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Fans get disheartened when the face of the franchise isn't living up to the standards set for him by the team/media...
    KP has been sold as the unicorn, now the u-knick-orn... He has been billed as the savior of the franchise. That is not his fault. He has some accountability with it but not all that much.
    We want a guy to be that guy and he looks like he will be and then he's not. People freak.
    KP, as you said is a great pillar for the foundation. Hopefully Tim will also be one and hopefully Frank will also be one. You then need that one transcendent player to flip you over the top. How bright would the knicks future look if they had a guy like Tatum? Or if somehow the knicks could draft a guy like Bamba to play the 5?
    That one other star player changes everything. He makes everyone else job easier.

    With that said, I am also a believer that every player has their price and you have to listen to what people offer.
    If you were offered the number 1 pick in this years draft and a 2020 first round pick and you still had your current lottery pick? I'm not saying I'd do it but I get why people talk about it. It's the hope of getting 2 stars at once.
    While I agree expectations are too high..KP himself came out with very high expectations of himself so some of the responsibility certainly goes to him. I have not lost confidence in KP but there are legitimate worries of his ability to make it through an entire season healthy and strong.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    Yea I mean if there is some kid coming out of the draft that your scouts really think could be the next LeBron or Duncan or the generational talent of the 2020s, you might try to trade KP for him, especially if the staff is worried that KP's tendency to fizzle out 1/4 through the season is tied to his physical frame, his anemia, whatever.

    I really would love to see KP put up another MVP level stretch late in the season, that would ease my worry about his ability to handle a season long workload. You are right, each year he never really came close to emulating his early season success once it fizzled out after 20-30 games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Fans get disheartened when the face of the franchise isn't living up to the standards set for him by the team/media...
    KP has been sold as the unicorn, now the u-knick-orn... He has been billed as the savior of the franchise. That is not his fault. He has some accountability with it but not all that much.
    We want a guy to be that guy and he looks like he will be and then he's not. People freak.
    KP, as you said is a great pillar for the foundation. Hopefully Tim will also be one and hopefully Frank will also be one. You then need that one transcendent player to flip you over the top. How bright would the knicks future look if they had a guy like Tatum? Or if somehow the knicks could draft a guy like Bamba to play the 5?
    That one other star player changes everything. He makes everyone else job easier.

    With that said, I am also a believer that every player has their price and you have to listen to what people offer.
    If you were offered the number 1 pick in this years draft and a 2020 first round pick and you still had your current lottery pick? I'm not saying I'd do it but I get why people talk about it. It's the hope of getting 2 stars at once.
    I think the goal should be to pair KP with that player, not trade him for that player. I definitely understand the concern, as these are things that I've brought up as well. However, trading him would be a tough pill to swallow.

    KP just isn't a creator like many of the top players and his peers (Towns, Embiid, Jokic). He's more of an elite finisher. Finishers can be dominant (see Amare). You combine that with his defensive potential and that's why he still has a high ceiling and why at worst I think he'll ultimately be a Robin.

    Getting a playmaker is just as important as finding someone better or at a similar level than him. I don't think we've seen what he is yet just based on the fact that he's never had a playmaker. Let's get one in here and then judge him more accurately. Him having to create for himself and others may never work, which could be another reason for his hot starts and steady declines the rest of the way. He can only play outside of himself for so long.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I think the goal should be to pair KP with that player, not trade him for that player. I definitely understand the concern, as these are things that I've brought up as well. However, trading him would be a tough pill to swallow.

    KP just isn't a creator like many of the top players and his peers (Towns, Embiid, Jokic). He's more of an elite finisher. Finishers can be dominant (see Amare). You combine that with his defensive potential and that's why he still has a high ceiling and why at worst I think he'll ultimately be a Robin.

    Getting a playmaker is just as important as finding someone better or at a similar level than him. I don't think we've seen what he is yet just based on the fact that he's never had a playmaker. Let's get one in here and then judge him more accurately. Him having to create for himself and others may never work, which could be another reason for his hot starts and steady declines the rest of the way. He can only play outside of himself for so long.
    Of course that's the goal. But the odds of the Knicks getting the #1 overall pick with KP around is extremely low. It would take a season ending injury for that to happen. But I agree with you, getting a legitimate playmaker that can draw defenses and kick it out - be it from the PG or the SF spot - would be huge for a spread 7 footer who can also play above the rim like KP. It would allow him to produce without expending as much energy as he has to now trying to score in the post 1v1 all game.
    Last edited by D-Leethal; 01-12-2018 at 01:20 PM.

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