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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    No lets trade him for lauri who ran away from KP like a ***** once KP blocked couple of his shots last night. People complain about his flops but forget those calls send him to the line for easy pts when our offense is not going anywhere. He's being forced to be a jump shooter since neither coaching staff or pgs have a clue how to run pick and roll with him i mean it's ridiculous how far this board has dropped.
    they were really easy points last night.. he missed all 4 of his Free throws...

    are you telling me you actually like all the flopping around he has been doing lately?? come on now

    glad your a fan... but at least admit... he is not playing the way he can ...or even close

    ..and I would not say too much about Markkanen(the guy that put up 33 and 10) - most of his damage was done with KP standing around watching him shoot open 3's(which is his strength)

    did you see the play when he turned his back to the play when he did not get the ball last night? ..that is not something I want to see from him

    https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/951265937264644096

  2. #17
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    This team lacks talent to win consistently. KP hasn't shown he can play at a super high level for an entire season. When he plays well, we win, when he doesn't, we lose. Timmy is our 2nd most important player, you take the 2nd most important player off any team not named the Cavs or Warriors and they take a massive hit. Any mid-low-borderline playoff team will play much worse if you take that guy off their team. That's just reality.

    Hornacek is fine. We can't be firing coaches every year. It's a joke. This team is still out there playing hard and they are right there in every game. When we start getting blown out all the time and the team clearly quits, that's when you start talking about firing the coach. Not when a young team with awful guard play and a struggling young star is barely losing games in crunch time. Also, it's not on Hornacek to play the vets, he has new bosses who didn't hire him and is coaching to keep his job. That's what he should do. If Mills and Perry want to see nothing but young guys, they need to trade the vets. That's on them.

  3. #18
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    The team needs to continue to shift the roster and mold it for the future. There are a lot of positional crossroads that have to be sorted out and some can be done sooner than later with beneficial results. My two cents on the outlook for the trade deadline,

    http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/yearly/cap/

    PG

    Jack is fine for the rest of the year.

    Frank is fine in this role until he proves he can be more consistent. He should have the go ahead to start next year.

    Sessions needs to be dumped.

    Call up Burke and see what he can do. Try to sign him to the same kind of deal that Chasson Randle got, so the option to have him next year for cheap is there. Given his age, that probably isn't likely though. Can maybe be a nice scoring PG off the bench.

    Baker will be the 3rd PG next year.

    SG

    THJ needs to be slotted to his natural position so his potential growth and comfort can be maximized.

    Lee needs to be traded in part for that reason, and to clear his cap space. Getting a 1st round pick for him should be easy and should be capitalized on. As long as the incoming salary ends before 2019, fine by me.

    Let Dotson get consistent burn as the backup SG and let him take his lumps. Dillon Brooks was drafted #45 overall, has started 32 of 40 games and plays 27 MPG. It's not like he has lit the world on fire (7.6 PPG, 2.8 REB, 1.1 AST, .450/.375/.723 splits) and there's no reason why Dotson couldn't get 16 MPG or so doing the same while learning.

    SF - This position is a complete **** show right now lmao.

    Lance is fine for now but if the right deal is there, go ahead and take it. It's not like there isn't always a vet or G-League player who can be signed short term to fill the same role. Look at Houston picking up Gerald Green recently, for example. Expiring deal + a mid 2nd rounder would be perfectly fine.

    Dougie McBuckets - do you resign him? For the right money I think that's perfectly fine, but what is the right money? $6-8M? If you are offered a late 1st round pick at the deadline because he is a cheap shooter and that team would get his Bird's rights, do you not instantly make it? I think I would.

    PF

    Porzingis is a gift. These midseason collapses are worrisome but he will no doubt be one of the best two-way players in the NBA one day.

    Beasley has played well, but given his age he is not a long term option. He's probably too volatile to expect to get any real offers for at the deadline, especially since he's an expiring with no Bird's rights attached. But if there's a playoff team who has a high-mid 2nd from a previous deal they can move? I'd do that. Otherwise, he can play out this year and continue his journey.

    Would like to see Hicks get his 45 days up here on the back end of the season, but that's not feasible unless Beasley is moved. There is another way though...

    C

    Kanter will be here this season and next. There is no shot in hell that he will get $18M on the market and I can't imagine he and his agent being dumb enough to turn down that option. He is plenty young enough to wait another year and another year with the team will only strengthen his ability to have a solid season. It would be much more attractive to FA suitors for him to have back-to-back starting seasons with his per minute production than just one, so I imagine that will be the plan for him and his agent. At the same time, he isn't good enough to start on a playoff team and is too expensive for a playoff team to add him as a 6th man, so I wouldn't expect any trades.

    KOQ needs to be moved. Take a 2nd round pick and be done with it. Not only is this needed to clear minutes for Willy, but it will also balance the roster as it would clear a way for Hicks to get his 45 days. Even if Hicks was stuck behind KP and Beasley at PF and not getting much burn, it would be nice for the team to get a first hand look at him in practice and see if he's a viable option for a roster spot next year.

    Willy can get backup burn this year and next. Ideally he would play well enough to take the starting job from Kanter at some point next year, but baby steps. He needs a consistent role to play in NBA games to properly develop. Practice can only take you so far.

    Noah will be here until his contract is gone. Whether that is letting him sit through 2019-20 to keep future dead space off or stretching him to make a FA signing in the 2019 offseason, we'll see. 3rd C for the next 2-3 years, unfortunately. But a good locker room guy, at least. Like a super expensive Kurt Thomas in 2012-13...

    Use our pick, I'm guessing it will be in the 8-11 range, to target a SF like Miles Bridges, Mikal Bridges or Kevin Knox. Use another 1st round pick (from Lee) to target a swing guard, SF or PF. Use 2nd round picks for depth options/stash picks.

    2018-19 depth chart

    PG - Frank, Burke?, Baker
    SG - THJ, Dotson/2nd 1st round pick?
    SF - 1st 1st round pick, McDermott?/2nd 1st round pick?
    PF - KP, Hicks?/2nd 1st round pick?
    C - Kanter, Willy, Noah

    Additional roster spots can be from cheap vet signings like Jack or 2nd round picks.


    A starting lineup with no player older than 26 and 3 players who are 23 and younger? A rotation with barely any 30-year olds, if any? Now that's what a rebuild looks like. If that team is competing for a playoff spot, then we're in business. None of this 34 and 32 year old starting backcourt nonsense.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    The team needs to continue to shift the roster and mold it for the future. There are a lot of positional crossroads that have to be sorted out and some can be done sooner than later with beneficial results. My two cents on the outlook for the trade deadline,

    http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/yearly/cap/

    PG

    Jack is fine for the rest of the year.

    Frank is fine in this role until he proves he can be more consistent. He should have the go ahead to start next year.

    Sessions needs to be dumped.

    Call up Burke and see what he can do. Try to sign him to the same kind of deal that Chasson Randle got, so the option to have him next year for cheap is there. Given his age, that probably isn't likely though. Can maybe be a nice scoring PG off the bench.

    Baker will be the 3rd PG next year.

    SG

    THJ needs to be slotted to his natural position so his potential growth and comfort can be maximized.

    Lee needs to be traded in part for that reason, and to clear his cap space. Getting a 1st round pick for him should be easy and should be capitalized on. As long as the incoming salary ends before 2019, fine by me.

    Let Dotson get consistent burn as the backup SG and let him take his lumps. Dillon Brooks was drafted #45 overall, has started 32 of 40 games and plays 27 MPG. It's not like he has lit the world on fire (7.6 PPG, 2.8 REB, 1.1 AST, .450/.375/.723 splits) and there's no reason why Dotson couldn't get 16 MPG or so doing the same while learning.

    SF - This position is a complete **** show right now lmao.

    Lance is fine for now but if the right deal is there, go ahead and take it. It's not like there isn't always a vet or G-League player who can be signed short term to fill the same role. Look at Houston picking up Gerald Green recently, for example. Expiring deal + a mid 2nd rounder would be perfectly fine.

    Dougie McBuckets - do you resign him? For the right money I think that's perfectly fine, but what is the right money? $6-8M? If you are offered a late 1st round pick at the deadline because he is a cheap shooter and that team would get his Bird's rights, do you not instantly make it? I think I would.

    PF

    Porzingis is a gift. These midseason collapses are worrisome but he will no doubt be one of the best two-way players in the NBA one day.

    Beasley has played well, but given his age he is not a long term option. He's probably too volatile to expect to get any real offers for at the deadline, especially since he's an expiring with no Bird's rights attached. But if there's a playoff team who has a high-mid 2nd from a previous deal they can move? I'd do that. Otherwise, he can play out this year and continue his journey.

    Would like to see Hicks get his 45 days up here on the back end of the season, but that's not feasible unless Beasley is moved. There is another way though...

    C

    Kanter will be here this season and next. There is no shot in hell that he will get $18M on the market and I can't imagine he and his agent being dumb enough to turn down that option. He is plenty young enough to wait another year and another year with the team will only strengthen his ability to have a solid season. It would be much more attractive to FA suitors for him to have back-to-back starting seasons with his per minute production than just one, so I imagine that will be the plan for him and his agent. At the same time, he isn't good enough to start on a playoff team and is too expensive for a playoff team to add him as a 6th man, so I wouldn't expect any trades.

    KOQ needs to be moved. Take a 2nd round pick and be done with it. Not only is this needed to clear minutes for Willy, but it will also balance the roster as it would clear a way for Hicks to get his 45 days. Even if Hicks was stuck behind KP and Beasley at PF and not getting much burn, it would be nice for the team to get a first hand look at him in practice and see if he's a viable option for a roster spot next year.

    Willy can get backup burn this year and next. Ideally he would play well enough to take the starting job from Kanter at some point next year, but baby steps. He needs a consistent role to play in NBA games to properly develop. Practice can only take you so far.

    Noah will be here until his contract is gone. Whether that is letting him sit through 2019-20 to keep future dead space off or stretching him to make a FA signing in the 2019 offseason, we'll see. 3rd C for the next 2-3 years, unfortunately. But a good locker room guy, at least. Like a super expensive Kurt Thomas in 2012-13...

    Use our pick, I'm guessing it will be in the 8-11 range, to target a SF like Miles Bridges, Mikal Bridges or Kevin Knox. Use another 1st round pick (from Lee) to target a swing guard, SF or PF. Use 2nd round picks for depth options/stash picks.

    2018-19 depth chart

    PG - Frank, Burke?, Baker
    SG - THJ, Dotson/2nd 1st round pick?
    SF - 1st 1st round pick, McDermott?/2nd 1st round pick?
    PF - KP, Hicks?/2nd 1st round pick?
    C - Kanter, Willy, Noah

    Additional roster spots can be from cheap vet signings like Jack or 2nd round picks.


    A starting lineup with no player older than 26 and 3 players who are 23 and younger? A rotation with barely any 30-year olds, if any? Now that's what a rebuild looks like. If that team is competing for a playoff spot, then we're in business. None of this 34 and 32 year old starting backcourt nonsense.
    Looks good to me. I'd consider Beasley for 2 years MLE. Especially until KP proves he can sustain a high level of play for a couple seasons. We will have plenty of young guys especially if we trade Lee for another first. I don't think it's asinine to keep some vets around until we find better long term options. Were gonna be over the cap anyway.

  5. #20
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    Trading Lee and Doug would really make us a horrible 3 point shooting team. Might be tough to trade both of those guys.

  6. #21
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    I think the Knicks want to get younger while getting better. So I think the full blown replacement of vets with young guys will happen a little slower and some vets that are solid might stick around. Right now I think we have viable replacements for O'Quinn and Lee (Hardaway). But guys like Lance and Beasley might stick around until we have better options to fill their respective roles.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    I think the Knicks want to get younger while getting better. So I think the full blown replacement of vets with young guys will happen a little slower and some vets that are solid might stick around. Right now I think we have viable replacements for O'Quinn and Lee (Hardaway). But guys like Lance and Beasley might stick around until we have better options to fill their respective roles.
    Yeah, I think that would be an everything falling perfectly into place scenario. I wouldn't want to waste any 2019 cap space on any older guys, but if it was on someone like McDermott for that right $6-8M price then I think that's cool. For one year deals like Jack's, those are always a viable option.

    There is no shot in hell that there will be max cap space in 2019, but with the right moves it is feasible to clear enough to make another THJ-sized signing. Those are also far more realistic signings anyways, so I would like to see them work towards that kind of flexibility.

  8. #23
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    The knocks on KP are kind of ridiculous. He's in year three and is ahead of pace where Dirk was at this time and plenty of other NBA players.

    Giannis wasn't playing at this level in his year 3. KP's conditioning is just poor and he needs to get his body right. He's obviously capable of what we saw the first month of the season. He's still super young and I think he's an obvious top 5 player for years to come.

    In terms of the future, Lee, O'Quinn and Kanter would all appear to have really high value right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see two first round picks returned for all three of those combined. The Knicks should be entertaining Lee trades left and right for a first.

    We need to stockpile picks. Porzingis and Ntilikina are the only real youngsters on our team. We do have Hardaway whose 25, but we're not playing Hernangomez and Dotson, our other two young guys. The Hernangomez thing is a mystery.

    If the Knicks played Kanter and O'Quinn to boost trade value, I'm all for it. But they should be dealt.

  9. #24
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    The future of this franchise should involve a lot of tanking and trades. I for one like KP... I think he is untradeable. This team needs to acquiring him a point guard... The Knicks seem to be in a constant cycle. KP is now Melo and the franchise is still missing a point guard and an 2 way players.

    The Knicks need to quickly assess their roster and make moves with eyes on the future. If it is determined that Frank is the point guard of the future, well he needs to be giving the keys. Jack has given a great effort but he is not the future. If it is determined Frank is not the point guard of the future I would deal him for another lottery pick while he still have value in the offseason. These are the sort of decisions that need to be made.

    Lee and O'Quinn should be on the open market as available. And because Noah is here eating up cap, you cannot resign Kanter to a long term contract.

    Oh I almost forgot, the Knicks also have to determine is KP a long term Center or PF, and build with that in mind... Or they will also have to find a steady player who plays the 4/5 and plays defense and rebounds.

    My dream scenario is to draft Bagley to play alongside KP... then move Frank and Kanter (sign and trade) for a disgruntled star point guard... lets say Lilard gets frustrated because he is passed over again for an all star spot in the west and is quickly eliminated in the first... does he realize greener pastures are elsewhere? This is my dream scenario, and likely wont happen....

    But the Knicks have to first make sure they are maximizes value in their current players... and making sure they pick the highest possible

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bofakop View Post
    they were really easy points last night.. he missed all 4 of his Free throws...

    are you telling me you actually like all the flopping around he has been doing lately?? come on now

    glad your a fan... but at least admit... he is not playing the way he can ...or even close

    ..and I would not say too much about Markkanen(the guy that put up 33 and 10) - most of his damage was done with KP standing around watching him shoot open 3's(which is his strength)

    did you see the play when he turned his back to the play when he did not get the ball last night? ..that is not something I want to see from him

    https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/951265937264644096
    Let me ask you did you see KP when he made the game tying slam dunk in the last second i guess i'll leave you to drool on what if lauri was on the knicks imaginations now lol

  11. #26
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    New York
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    2019 cap space

    KP's extension, about $25M.
    THJ, $18.1M
    Frank, $4.8M
    Dotson, $1.6M
    Willy, $1.5M
    Noah, $19.3M but can be stretched to drop it to $6.4M.

    Basis - roughly $57.4M.

    Add in 2018 1st round pick, about $4M if it's 8-11 range
    A later 2018 1st round pick from a Lee trade would probably be another $2M or so.
    2019 1st round pick, mid-teen range? $1.5-2M

    Roughly $65.4M for 8 roster spots. If Doug is kept at $8M that season, $73.4M for 9 roster spots.

    If they could plan it out that way, they would have $20M or so to throw at a FA with another $6M or so for another solid vet + the MLE to fill out another roster spot. That could be a strong pathway to become a contender in 2019-20 and beyond.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    The team needs to continue to shift the roster and mold it for the future. There are a lot of positional crossroads that have to be sorted out and some can be done sooner than later with beneficial results. My two cents on the outlook for the trade deadline,

    http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/yearly/cap/

    PG

    Jack is fine for the rest of the year.

    Frank is fine in this role until he proves he can be more consistent. He should have the go ahead to start next year.

    Sessions needs to be dumped.

    Call up Burke and see what he can do. Try to sign him to the same kind of deal that Chasson Randle got, so the option to have him next year for cheap is there. Given his age, that probably isn't likely though. Can maybe be a nice scoring PG off the bench.

    Baker will be the 3rd PG next year.

    SG

    THJ needs to be slotted to his natural position so his potential growth and comfort can be maximized.

    Lee needs to be traded in part for that reason, and to clear his cap space. Getting a 1st round pick for him should be easy and should be capitalized on. As long as the incoming salary ends before 2019, fine by me.

    Let Dotson get consistent burn as the backup SG and let him take his lumps. Dillon Brooks was drafted #45 overall, has started 32 of 40 games and plays 27 MPG. It's not like he has lit the world on fire (7.6 PPG, 2.8 REB, 1.1 AST, .450/.375/.723 splits) and there's no reason why Dotson couldn't get 16 MPG or so doing the same while learning.

    SF - This position is a complete **** show right now lmao.

    Lance is fine for now but if the right deal is there, go ahead and take it. It's not like there isn't always a vet or G-League player who can be signed short term to fill the same role. Look at Houston picking up Gerald Green recently, for example. Expiring deal + a mid 2nd rounder would be perfectly fine.

    Dougie McBuckets - do you resign him? For the right money I think that's perfectly fine, but what is the right money? $6-8M? If you are offered a late 1st round pick at the deadline because he is a cheap shooter and that team would get his Bird's rights, do you not instantly make it? I think I would.

    PF

    Porzingis is a gift. These midseason collapses are worrisome but he will no doubt be one of the best two-way players in the NBA one day.

    Beasley has played well, but given his age he is not a long term option. He's probably too volatile to expect to get any real offers for at the deadline, especially since he's an expiring with no Bird's rights attached. But if there's a playoff team who has a high-mid 2nd from a previous deal they can move? I'd do that. Otherwise, he can play out this year and continue his journey.

    Would like to see Hicks get his 45 days up here on the back end of the season, but that's not feasible unless Beasley is moved. There is another way though...

    C

    Kanter will be here this season and next. There is no shot in hell that he will get $18M on the market and I can't imagine he and his agent being dumb enough to turn down that option. He is plenty young enough to wait another year and another year with the team will only strengthen his ability to have a solid season. It would be much more attractive to FA suitors for him to have back-to-back starting seasons with his per minute production than just one, so I imagine that will be the plan for him and his agent. At the same time, he isn't good enough to start on a playoff team and is too expensive for a playoff team to add him as a 6th man, so I wouldn't expect any trades.

    KOQ needs to be moved. Take a 2nd round pick and be done with it. Not only is this needed to clear minutes for Willy, but it will also balance the roster as it would clear a way for Hicks to get his 45 days. Even if Hicks was stuck behind KP and Beasley at PF and not getting much burn, it would be nice for the team to get a first hand look at him in practice and see if he's a viable option for a roster spot next year.

    Willy can get backup burn this year and next. Ideally he would play well enough to take the starting job from Kanter at some point next year, but baby steps. He needs a consistent role to play in NBA games to properly develop. Practice can only take you so far.

    Noah will be here until his contract is gone. Whether that is letting him sit through 2019-20 to keep future dead space off or stretching him to make a FA signing in the 2019 offseason, we'll see. 3rd C for the next 2-3 years, unfortunately. But a good locker room guy, at least. Like a super expensive Kurt Thomas in 2012-13...

    Use our pick, I'm guessing it will be in the 8-11 range, to target a SF like Miles Bridges, Mikal Bridges or Kevin Knox. Use another 1st round pick (from Lee) to target a swing guard, SF or PF. Use 2nd round picks for depth options/stash picks.

    2018-19 depth chart

    PG - Frank, Burke?, Baker
    SG - THJ, Dotson/2nd 1st round pick?
    SF - 1st 1st round pick, McDermott?/2nd 1st round pick?
    PF - KP, Hicks?/2nd 1st round pick?
    C - Kanter, Willy, Noah

    Additional roster spots can be from cheap vet signings like Jack or 2nd round picks.


    A starting lineup with no player older than 26 and 3 players who are 23 and younger? A rotation with barely any 30-year olds, if any? Now that's what a rebuild looks like. If that team is competing for a playoff spot, then we're in business. None of this 34 and 32 year old starting backcourt nonsense.
    Looks like a plan! I fully agree with everything here.

  13. #28
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    I would have been totally against this a month ago but I think i'm at the point where if a top player became available i'd offer KP+. It'd have to be a top player. Someone along the lines of Giannis, or AD. I don't think Giannis is available at all but AD could be. Especially if they miss the playoffs and Boogie bolts.

  14. #29
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    I would only trade KP for a #1 or #2 pick + another pick. I wouldn't want a big money star, that would just put us in the same predicament where our cap situation sucks, we have on star, and probably will be too good to get a top pick and not good enough to make a playoff run.

    That said, I think we are better off keeping him. His ceiling as a 22 year old prospect is as high as anyones in the league.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    I think you guys want a 22 year old to succeed to fast lol his efficiency has gone down because teams are putting more pressure on him and league is allowing everyone and there mother to smack his elbow.
    I said what I said about KP wearing down a bit and dropping in efficiency but I am not down on KP and haven't changed my mind about his development. I have always had a slight concern about his stamina and durability but I'm not close to jumping ship or anything.

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