Game #41: Chicago Bulls (14-27) @ New York Knicks (19-21)

[ISIAH_THOMAS]

So outside of the top vote-getter, the votes are absolutely meaningless?

Yea staters could come off bench

[HeartOfStarks]

No, what you're missing, is Jack was out playing Frank and doing more of what this team needs from the PG. On nights where Frank looks like he has a clue, HE DOES PLAY. On nights where Frank looks half asleep, like last night, he shouldn't be playing. Knicks are starving for offense and Frank can't spell it most games. Jack had a good game, similar to Beasley, which is why he was the goto guy, and not KP in most of crunch time. This team has to ride the hot hand because there isn't a ton of offensive talent there right now. If you guys love young players more than you do competing, go watch the G league for crying out loud.

So the bolded I don't disagree with, we're on the same page basically. But my whole thing is at this point in the season, I do personally feel we've seen enough of the rook to know what he CAN bring when he's sort of feeling it, and overall for the most part the team has played better with him on the floor.

Due to this general idea, my thinking is why not let him start a bit, and see how that goes? Because my gut feeling is in the first few minutes of a game playing alongside Timmy, KP, Lee & Kanter, Frank will be likely to get a couple assists in the first minutes of said game, which may get his confidence going.

Of course confidence is a tricky, delicate thing, and I get that the coaching staff may want to err on the side of caution with our 19 y/o PG, but if you look at the stats through the season, our highest offensive rated pairing is Frank & KP on the floor together. I believe that's over like a 290 minute sample size, which is admittedly not huge, but still, the point is those 2 on the floor together this year have outproduced any other duo on the squad in terms of rating or +/- or whatever (I'm not sure the exact stat but I think it came from Cleaning The Glass or something like that, heard it on a Podcast I listen to on the Knicks).

Anyway it's just an idea; maybe Hornacek won't start Frank all season, but personally I'd like to get a look at him with the starters at some point soon to see what may happen from it.

[smood999]

So outside of the top vote-getter, the votes are absolutely meaningless?

They pick their teams based on the players that are named All Stars. The top 5 (2 backcourt and 3 frontcourt) in each conference will be the starters as usual. The coaches, media, and players vote on the remaining players.

I'm assuming the players that are named captains will pick from the starter pool first and then the rest.

[smood999]

No, what you're missing, is Jack was out playing Frank and doing more of what this team needs from the PG. On nights where Frank looks like he has a clue, HE DOES PLAY. On nights where Frank looks half asleep, like last night, he shouldn't be playing. Knicks are starving for offense and Frank can't spell it most games. Jack had a good game, similar to Beasley, which is why he was the goto guy, and not KP in most of crunch time. This team has to ride the hot hand because there isn't a ton of offensive talent there right now. If you guys love young players more than you do competing, go watch the G league for crying out loud.

It's not loving young players more than competing. It's having a goal (championship contender) and wanting your team to reach that. We are actually prioritizing competing at a high level with these suggestions and not just competing for the sake of competing.

It's just like with most things in life. You set your goals, outline a plan, take your bumps when necessary, sometimes even take steps back in hopes of moving forward, and hope to succeed in the end. This is no different.

[HeartOfStarks]

It's not loving young players more than competing. It's having a goal (championship contender) and wanting your team to reach that. We are actually prioritizing competing at a high level with these suggestions and not just competing for the sake of competing.

It's just like with most things in life. You set your goals, outline a plan, take your bumps when necessary, sometimes even take steps back in hopes of moving forward, and hope to succeed in the end. This is no different.

Exactly. And I get that Jack is the better PG on offense right now, dude is a proven vet that knows how to run a team (even though he is almost on his last legs). But you can't tell me he doesn't benefit from playing alongside of and starting with our 4 best players.

It reminds me a bit of the Kurt Warner/Eli Manning situation in 2003/2004? Point being let's see what Frank can do before this season ends when he starts alongside KP/Timmy/Lee/Kanter. I get that some fans think it's pushing him too fast and potentially setting him up for failure, and I'm not saying that isn't a valid point. But we ARE a rebuilding team for the most part. I think the time to give it a try should be sooner rather than later personally.

[still a fan]

Ian Begley
ESPN Staff Writer

Enes Kanter on playing just five fourth-quarter minutes in last 6 games: "I don't know why,'' Kanter told reporters Wednesday. "What'd he say? I have no idea why. I guess it's a little weird. I have no idea. I look at the coach. He looks at me. OK? I'll sit on the bench....I'm ready [to play in the fourth]. It's a little weird to me too," Kanter added. "I guess he's trying to make everybody happy. That's what he's doing. The most important thing is if we're winning or not. If we're winning we're good. If we're losing, there's a problem." The Knicks have lost 9 of 12. Hornacek indicated that he went to O'Quinn because of his defense/passing and if he needed offense, he'd play Kanter.

[Knicks Boogie]

Not good enough to bring back the kind of player we're talking about. The goal should also be to add, not subtract from the team.

Curry came into the league and didn't experience a winning season for the first five years of his career. Shortly after that he was league MVP and an NBA champion. Most winners start off as losers by nature of the teams that draft high enough to select them.

And that's what makes Tatum look so good as a rookie. He walked into a winning culture and it carried over this year with an almost whole new team. That young team is overachieving big time but the playoffs will bring them back to earth just watch but it will be a great experience for the rookies none the less. Also notice that 2 veterans are the key to their success. Take young veteran Kyrie and seasoned veteran Horford off that team and they are worst in the East.

Why can't young veterans Timmeh and seasoned veteran Beasley who has played in many playoff series help us to reach our full potential and overachieve like we were doing when Tim was healthy. Did you fans forget that the Knicks beat the Celtics?

More firepower is all we need. Jeff has to realize that the NBA has become a league of however can put the best scorers together on the floor at the same time.

Lou Williams outscored GS last night. Knicks need as many premium scorers on the floor as possible that's why you need a scoring point guard on the team to offset Frank because as good as Frank is on defense, there is always a great scorer that he faces. Frank has got to learn how to score to even out his match up. Knicks need 2 guys off the bench that can create their own shots which will open the floor for players like McDormett and Willy and Dot who feed off of other better players.

[smood999]

And that's what makes Tatum look so good as a rookie. He walked into a winning culture and it carried over this year with an almost whole new team. That young team is overachieving big time but the playoffs will bring them back to earth just watch but it will be a great experience for the rookies none the less. Also notice that 2 veterans are the key to their success. Take young veteran Kyrie and seasoned veteran Horford off that team and they are worst in the East.

Why can't young veterans Timmeh and seasoned veteran Beasley who has played in many playoff series help us to reach our full potential and overachieve like we were doing when Tim was healthy. Did you fans forget that the Knicks beat the Celtics?

More firepower is all we need. Jeff has to realize that the NBA has become a league of however can put the best scorers together on the floor at the same time.

Lou Williams outscored GS last night. Knicks need as many premium scorers on the floor as possible that's why you need a scoring point guard on the team to offset Frank because as good as Frank is on defense, there is always a great scorer that he faces. Frank has got to learn how to score to even out his match up. Knicks need 2 guys off the bench that can create their own shots which will open the floor for players like McDormett and Willy and Dot who feed off of other better players.

The Celtics have two current All Stars. That makes the difference. Everything is easier when teams have players at that level. When Hayward comes back, that's a third. Both Tatum and Brown both have that potential. It's entirely possible that they'll have 3-4 All Stars at the same time within the next couple years. How many players do the Knicks have with that potential?

I've come around on Tim, but he is not that. Who knows about Frank at this point? KP is the only one.

You guys should be seeing a common theme when you constantly bring up these teams. Talent makes everything easier. Get the talent first and everything else you wish for will start to fall in place.

[Crackadalic]

And that's what makes Tatum look so good as a rookie. He walked into a winning culture and it carried over this year with an almost whole new team. That young team is overachieving big time but the playoffs will bring them back to earth just watch but it will be a great experience for the rookies none the less. Also notice that 2 veterans are the key to their success. Take young veteran Kyrie and seasoned veteran Horford off that team and they are worst in the East.

Why can't young veterans Timmeh and seasoned veteran Beasley who has played in many playoff series help us to reach our full potential and overachieve like we were doing when Tim was healthy. Did you fans forget that the Knicks beat the Celtics?

More firepower is all we need. Jeff has to realize that the NBA has become a league of however can put the best scorers together on the floor at the same time.

Lou Williams outscored GS last night. Knicks need as many premium scorers on the floor as possible that's why you need a scoring point guard on the team to offset Frank because as good as Frank is on defense, there is always a great scorer that he faces. Frank has got to learn how to score to even out his match up. Knicks need 2 guys off the bench that can create their own shots which will open the floor for players like McDormett and Willy and Dot who feed off of other better players.

GS also had no curry or klay that game.

[Knicks Boogie]

The Celtics have two current All Stars. That makes the difference. Everything is easier when teams have players at that level. When Hayward comes back, that's a third. Both Tatum and Brown both have that potential. It's entirely possible that they'll have 3-4 All Stars at the same time within the next couple years. How many players do the Knicks have with that potential?

I've come around on Tim, but he is not that. Who knows about Frank at this point? KP is the only one.

You guys should be seeing a common theme when you constantly bring up these teams. Talent makes everything easier. Get the talent first and everything else you wish for will start to fall in place.

Are you saying that Brown or Tatum are better than Tim right now? Put either on this Knicks team without Kyrie drawing all the attention away from them and I guarantee they look like all the other top rookies are looking who got drafted to losing teams.

Haven't you noticed that rookies that go to the Spurs always look good too?

That's where that winning culture and playing along side REAL allstars come into play. KP is not a real all-star and needs Timmeh to make him look like one whereas if Kyrie were playing with Tim Hardaway Jr he would look a lot better than Tatum or Brown looks right now.

Granted Tatum and Brown are really nice potential future all-star players, I think that Timmeh has DeRozan type potential also. Let's stop underrating our own players a look at the situation. Knicks have got to change this losing culture so that when young talented players come here they are expected to win just like in Boston and San Antonio.

[Knicks Boogie]

GS also had no curry or klay that game.

Even still do you think the Clippers have a chance in hell at beating them without Curry and Clay if they don't have a scorer like Lou who dropped 50?

KD and Draymond are still all-stars. How many on the Clippers?

[D-Leethal]

Tim could end up at Hayward's level IMO. He's close but needs another leap next year to get there.

[bofakop]

Absolutely disagree that if Knicks had Brown or Tatum instead of THJR that they would struggle... I think it would be quite the opposite and the Knicks would be better(not that that really matters).. both Brown and Tatum quite often play without Kyrie on the court and do quite well. Slotting a player of either Brown or Tatums skillset at the SF position on this team is exactly what we need..

I like THJR, but lets not overrate our players either... someone like either of those 2 players is exactly what this team needs to take next step!! we would be a hell of a lot better off going forward IMO with

Frank
Lee
Tatum/Brown(similar)
KP
Kanter

than we are right now with :

Frank
Lee
THJR
KP
Kanter

[Knicks Boogie]

Absolutely disagree that if Knicks had Brown or Tatum instead of THJR that they would struggle... I think it would be quite the opposite and the Knicks would be better(not that that really matters).. both Brown and Tatum quite often play without Kyrie on the court and do quite well. Slotting a player of either Brown or Tatums skillset at the SF position on this team is exactly what we need..

I like THJR, but lets not overrate our players either... someone like either of those 2 players is exactly what this team needs to take next step!! we would be a hell of a lot better off going forward IMO with

Frank
Lee
Tatum/Brown(similar)
KP
Kanter

than we are right now with :

Frank
Lee
THJR
KP
Kanter

Well, actually I think Tim is a natural SG so Tatum/Brown might be a better fit at SF but Tim and Johnson or a young wing like Johnson would be better than Lee and Tatum in my opinion.

The time that Tatum/Brown have on the floor without Kyrie is still spent with Smart or Rozier who are both better than any Pg that the Knicks have right now.

Also keep in mind that the Knicks beat the Celtics!

[cheetos185]

Absolutely disagree that if Knicks had Brown or Tatum instead of THJR that they would struggle... I think it would be quite the opposite and the Knicks would be better(not that that really matters).. both Brown and Tatum quite often play without Kyrie on the court and do quite well. Slotting a player of either Brown or Tatums skillset at the SF position on this team is exactly what we need..

I like THJR, but lets not overrate our players either... someone like either of those 2 players is exactly what this team needs to take next step!! we would be a hell of a lot better off going forward IMO with

Frank
Lee
Tatum/Brown(similar)
KP
Kanter

than we are right now with :

Frank
Lee
THJR
KP
Kanter

Brown and Tatums play has to do with coaching too steven knows how utilize his roster well just look at his old role player in cavs now struggling