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  1. #256
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Queens, NY
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    3,772
    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    Maybe. I think there is no way we invest in Hardaway if Lee was viewed as a long term piece. He is gonna get traded, only question is when IMO. I could see him finishing the year though and getting traded on draft night or something.

    O'Quinn is good as gone. Many teams would love to have him for a playoff push. Easy tradeable contract, hopefully we can snag a late first but more likely a couple 2nds or something. I think McDermott is an underrated trade piece. Teams are always looking for short term shooting to help with a playoff run. I don't see him as a guy we need to re-sign. He won't be worth a 6-8M contract IMO. I think we'll shop Lance but I think he'll probably stick around. Same with Beasley.

    Like any deadline, I expect lots of talk, little action, but I do expect SOME action. At the very least trading O'Quinn to open up minutes for Willy. My gut says Lee finishes the season out because our guard rotation is very thin and poor overall. But I don't see him here next year.
    I have changed my opinion on Lee. Yes he's over 30 but he's not playing like it. He's having arguably his best season of his career. If we don't get a good return, I rather keep him. Who are we going to sign in the offseason for 11M/yr that's as good as Lee? I think Lee has built up his trade value. To me he's worth more than one late 1st round pick now. If we need to move him to sign someone, it shouldn't be that hard.

    The guys that I want to move are Lance, Baker, and O'Quin. Q is a solid bench player but if we think he's going to opt-out we might as well trade him. I'm 50/50 on Kanter. If he doesn't opt out, we have him for just one more year.

    It looks like we're slipping out of the playoff race so we need to start giving more minutes to the younger guys soon.

  2. #257
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,487
    I don't mind losing. I just measure our team by what its saying. They say they wanna play hard D, want to leave it all on the court and play with pride......
    So they lost twice very close games to the bulls and Kp got outplayed by Markannen in both contests. I would have assumed they gonna run them out of the building, especially coming home, having practice time, bulls not having mirotic and so on.... They pretty much were embarassing. Straight up embarassing.
    `

  3. #258
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    5,002
    Jack's role on this team is to mentor and back up Frank. His job is not to win us games or play in crucial moments of a game. Lee is a tradeable asset should not be forcing Tim to play out of position. Q is a casualty because we took back Kanter in that trade and are stuck with Noah's contract. Beasley is what he is. If we can get value for Beasley move him, if he comes back on a great contract he can stay or just let him come off the books next year. Mcbuckets can come back if it is on a team friendly deal. Kanter can go when he deal is up if we cannot trade him get and asset and an expiring because his production will demand more than we can or should pay him. Tim, Frank and KP are the core and should be played and developed as such. Dotson u keep, he has potential and is in a low cost deal, if he develops into a starter or bench piece keep him if not he can be let go are let him walk. No hero ball from old players not in our future so we can win a few more games and not make the playoffs and not get a good pick. If the core leads us to victory I live with that all day.

  4. #259
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,172
    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    KP is what he is and he's being asked to do too much, similar to what Melo was being asked to do even though many here will deny it. Once KP gets his batman, in the form of a scoring PG or scoring Point forward, who can dish, you will see him shine. A guy like Butler, P.George, or Kyrie is so needed by this team.
    I agree again, KP is nothing but a Robin but no Batman is coming here so the organization has to figure out which veteran pieces should stay long term like Beasley and Jack and they are stuck with Noah and Lee because of the size of their contracts.

    Bulls had plenty of veterans on the floor last night who I would venture to say sealed the win for them. Holiday and Lopez make BIG SHOTS down the stretch or they would have lost. That Lopez put back actually won the game!

    Point is to me Hornacek is depending too much on the veterans but hey maybe he is just showcasing them so they will have more value before the deadline. Now if he is still over using Jack, Q and Lee after the trade deadline and Timmy and Burke are available then there is a problem.


    Hey I hope most Knicks fans saw how that kid up from the G-league played last night for the Bulls and how a scoring guard like Lou Williams was vital to beating GS last night. Keep an open mind!

  5. #260
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NY... Jersey Raised
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    3,804
    Quote Originally Posted by AFG-NYC View Post
    I have changed my opinion on Lee. Yes he's over 30 but he's not playing like it. He's having arguably his best season of his career. If we don't get a good return, I rather keep him. Who are we going to sign in the offseason for 11M/yr that's as good as Lee? I think Lee has built up his trade value. To me he's worth more than one late 1st round pick now. If we need to move him to sign someone, it shouldn't be that hard.

    The guys that I want to move are Lance, Baker, and O'Quin. Q is a solid bench player but if we think he's going to opt-out we might as well trade him. I'm 50/50 on Kanter. If he doesn't opt out, we have him for just one more year.

    It looks like we're slipping out of the playoff race so we need to start giving more minutes to the younger guys soon.
    Lee is pretty much on par with the player he has been most of his career, he is just playing a bigger role than he ever has before. He is a nice player but he is 32 and is playing well but again he is 32, so not sure that his current performance alters the future outlook and this teams timeline. We invested a lot in a sg already, and it would be nice to see if we have a decent rotational bench player in Dotson as well, so I don't believe that you replace him with another sg or anyone at that $11m price tag, but rather look at development of hopefully a 1st round pick or younger cheaper player with some upside.

  6. #261
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NJ
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    9,240
    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Your post is vastly off imo. Winning culture has everything to do with winning, and working hard to win. That culture is VERY important no matter who is on the court. Obviously, we won't win much without top guys, but having a winning mindset of working hard every play and etc, is a must. No benefit of making the payoffs without high level players?? I would argue that you can't make the playoffs without some good players and without a winning mentality.

    No assets? Willy, Frank, Lee, KoQ, Kanter. Not saying these are the best assets but they're assets.
    Not good enough to bring back the kind of player we're talking about. The goal should also be to add, not subtract from the team.

    Curry came into the league and didn't experience a winning season for the first five years of his career. Shortly after that he was league MVP and an NBA champion. Most winners start off as losers by nature of the teams that draft high enough to select them.

  7. #262
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    Feb 2010
    Location
    East New York Brooklyn
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    20,715
    Winning culture matters but whats the point when your team isn't talented. At the end of the day you have to take your knicks glasses fandom shades off, look at the roster and say to yourself we are not that good. We were projected to be a bottom 5 team before the season start for a reason. We just had a bunch of early home games and just overachieved

    News flash. we are not a good team and the sad part is we are just good enough to not be a playoff team and thats not good period. If we are not good enough to make the playoffs then why keep certain guys when you can still bottom out, play the younger guys to still play hard and learn how to win even if we don't rack up wins and pile up losses. Its just the way the nba is especially since we killed ourselves with all the cap moves we did
    Stay Humble

  8. #263
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    5,002
    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    What in the heck are us Knick fans smoking? The benefit may be making the payoffs. The benefit may be attracting other players to come here. The benefit is having a winning culture. Let's face it, the good young players on this team, PLAY. The ones that aren't ready, DON'T.

    Do you think players give 2 sh--ts about whether they're playing with young or old guys? Do you think coaches or organizations care about whether young guys are winning instead of vets. NO For this organization, building a winning culture of one that works hard, is key. Not playing a bunch of kids that are still lost on the court.
    Yes players do care. What u miss is Jack would not be starting on any other teams, do u think guys around the league do not know that. Beasley and Lee, how many teams and how many years . Players in the league knows this. Oh by the way we are not winning . Also young players can play hard that comes down to coaching. The Bulls do not have a problem playing hard with an all youth team. Brad Stevens does not have a problem instilling hard play and defense in his young players even prior to thr Al Horford acquisition. If you have a coach that can teach the game and demands players play hard that will establish that winning culture. Vets on rebuilding teams or used to guide and help navigate young players while they develop. Not take their minutes.
    Last edited by cssdmark; 01-11-2018 at 02:46 PM.

  9. #264
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
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    3,158
    Quote Originally Posted by cssdmark View Post
    Jack's role on this team is to mentor and back up Frank. His job is not to win us games or play in crucial moments of a game. Lee is a tradeable asset should not be forcing Tim to play out of position. Q is a casualty because we took back Kanter in that trade and are stuck with Noah's contract. Beasley is what he is. If we can get value for Beasley move him, if he comes back on a great contract he can stay or just let him come off the books next year. Mcbuckets can come back if it is on a team friendly deal. Kanter can go when he deal is up if we cannot trade him get and asset and an expiring because his production will demand more than we can or should pay him. Tim, Frank and KP are the core and should be played and developed as such. Dotson u keep, he has potential and is in a low cost deal, if he develops into a starter or bench piece keep him if not he can be let go are let him walk. No hero ball from old players not in our future so we can win a few more games and not make the playoffs and not get a good pick. If the core leads us to victory I live with that all day.
    Cosign this. Ill live with Franks ups & downs in his first season or 2 (or 3), and his off nights, but this team legit may not make the playoffs (barring Timmy coming back & righting the ship, which is certainly possible), and anyway I think its time with this young team to start Frank soon. If in the first 8 minutes of the game hes struggling you bring Jack in (or Burke). But were not winning a chip this year, might not even make the playoffs, and were at the halfway mark. Time to push the Frank/KP/Timmy chemistry in game situations and let these 3 figure it out on the court together.

  10. #265
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    LI-NY
    Posts
    31,509
    Lee is gonna get traded, but I'm fine being patient with him and not trading him for the first late 1st rounder that gets offered. I don't worry about him losing his value - but I think he is an asset that could be part of a bigger trade and I think his value could spike if a playoff team gets desparate due to injury (like we saw when the Cavs traded 2 firsts for Mozgov).

  11. #266
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    5,669

  12. #267
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    LI-NY
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    31,509
    How does the voting work when they are "drafting"? Are the starting lineups by vote and the draft rounds out the bench?

  13. #268
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    NY
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    5,669
    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    How does the voting work when they are "drafting"? Are the starting lineups by vote and the draft rounds out the bench?
    They select two captains the highest vote getter from each conference and they pick players they want on their team. You can take a player who wasn't voted in as a starter with your 1st pick. Voting means nothing you just have to get in .East players can pick west players. West can pick east
    Last edited by ISIAH_THOMAS; 01-11-2018 at 03:54 PM.

  14. #269
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    Sep 2007
    Location
    LI-NY
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    31,509
    Quote Originally Posted by ISIAH_THOMAS View Post
    They select two captains the highest vote getter from each conference and they pick players they want on their team. You can take a player who wasn't voted in as a starter with your 1st pick. Voting means nothing you just have to get in .East players can pick west players. West can pick east
    So outside of the top vote-getter, the votes are absolutely meaningless?

  15. #270
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    7,771
    Quote Originally Posted by cssdmark View Post
    Yes players do care. What u miss is Jack would not be starting on any other teams, do u think guys around the league do not know that. Beasley and Lee, how many teams and how many years . Players in the league knows this. Oh by the way we are not winning . Also young players can play hard that comes down to coaching. The Bulls do not have a problem playing hard with an all youth team. Brad Stevens does not have a problem instilling hard play and defense in his young players even prior to thr Al Horford acquisition. If you have a coach that can teach the game and demands players play hard that will establish that winning culture. Vets on rebuilding teams or used to guide and help navigate young players while they develop. Not take their minutes.
    No, what you're missing, is Jack was out playing Frank and doing more of what this team needs from the PG. On nights where Frank looks like he has a clue, HE DOES PLAY. On nights where Frank looks half asleep, like last night, he shouldn't be playing. Knicks are starving for offense and Frank can't spell it most games. Jack had a good game, similar to Beasley, which is why he was the goto guy, and not KP in most of crunch time. This team has to ride the hot hand because there isn't a ton of offensive talent there right now. If you guys love young players more than you do competing, go watch the G league for crying out loud.

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