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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Jack won't be here. Beasley as a vet off the bench is fine by me..

    I just don't get why we don't see Frank, Dotson, Willy...
    It's pretty obvious why. They aren't playing because there are better players that help this team more than those guys . Young guys play on other teams because they're the best options for those teams. Frank isn't consistent yet and doesn't get to the basket, Dot is too timid, and Willy isn't as good as the other in front of him. These games wouldn't even be competitive if we insisted on playing guys just because they're young.
    Last edited by Bivory; 01-11-2018 at 10:26 AM.


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  2. #242
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    KP's efficiency is on Melo's level. The only difference is KP hasn't learned to pass the ball out of double teams yet.


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  3. #243
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    great loss. greatly helps our tank. we should trade KP now while his value is ATH, hes def overrated. knew he was a diva and a scrub after last season esp with the way he handled himself. trade his as$ now

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    It's pretty obvious why. They aren't playing because there are better players that help this team more than those guys . Young guys play on other teams because they're the best options for those teams. Frank isn't consistent yet and doesn't get to the basket, Dot is too timid, and Willy isn't as good as the other in front of him. These games wouldn't even be competitive if we insisted on playing guys just because they're young.
    Agree but Frank would have been better on D in OT and Q got dominated by Lopez with pure size alone. Kanter should have played more minutes down the stretch.

    Game was lost because of KP's and Lee's perimeter D. Both gave up way too many 3s!

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Agree but Frank would have been better on D in OT and Q got dominated by Lopez with pure size alone. Kanter should have played more minutes down the stretch.

    Game was lost because of KP's and Lee's perimeter D. Both gave up way too many 3s!
    Kanter and Willy are lost on D though. Q is light yrs better than both of them and if he wasn't good enough, The others would've failed miserably. Willy and Kanter have to prove they can play D before going up against some of these bigger C's.


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  6. #246
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    The Tank is gaining speed...

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    It's pretty obvious why. They aren't playing because there are better players that help this team more than those guys . Young guys play on other teams because they're the best options for those teams. Frank isn't consistent yet and doesn't get to the basket, Dot is too timid, and Willy isn't as good as the other in front of him. These games wouldn't even be competitive if we insisted on playing guys just because they're young.
    Are we trying to be competitive with old guys who will not be here or trying to develop and be competitive with young guys who will be here? What benefit is there for the organization if we get into the playoffs and Jack, Beasley and Lee are playing majority of the minutes. Guys around the league are going to be like look at NYC I want to go there to play with 34 year old Jarrett Jack he is lighting it up. That is why we need a roster full of hungry young guys competing for the minutes not old players.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Agree but Frank would have been better on D in OT and Q got dominated by Lopez with pure size alone. Kanter should have played more minutes down the stretch.

    Game was lost because of KP's and Lee's perimeter D. Both gave up way too many 3s!
    It does not matter if Frank would have been better than Jack it is about developing Frank.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by cssdmark View Post
    Are we trying to be competitive with old guys who will not be here or trying to develop and be competitive with young guys who will be here? What benefit is there for the organization if we get into the playoffs and Jack, Beasley and Lee are playing majority of the minutes. Guys around the league are going to be like look at NYC I want to go there to play with 34 year old Jarrett Jack he is lighting it up. That is why we need a roster full of hungry young guys competing for the minutes not old players.
    What in the heck are us Knick fans smoking? The benefit may be making the payoffs. The benefit may be attracting other players to come here. The benefit is having a winning culture. Let's face it, the good young players on this team, PLAY. The ones that aren't ready, DON'T.

    Do you think players give 2 sh--ts about whether they're playing with young or old guys? Do you think coaches or organizations care about whether young guys are winning instead of vets. NO For this organization, building a winning culture of one that works hard, is key. Not playing a bunch of kids that are still lost on the court.


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  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    So you think the alternative is, what, have no veterans on the team?

    Talk about logistically impossible! Might as well say we only run with 9 players on the roster.
    Not no veterans, but very few and of the minimum contract variety like most rebuilding teams.

    Just using the Bulls as an example because the Knicks played them last night, but they brought in Payne, then traded for Dunn and then took a flyer on David Nwaba. They let the kids battle it out with no veteran in the mix. If they had decided to fill Nwaba's spot with a vet, they wouldn't have discovered him. Whether he's apart of their future or not, he's a young player that at least gives them an option moving forward. Besides, what's the point if they aren't even close to winning but it may hurt them moving forward? I feel like this is the Sasha Vujacic debate again or trying to justify Phil Jackson going with Lamar Odom over Whiteside.

    That's the benefit of having the young players battle it out and taking flyers rather than having a known player that has no future. Have we learned anything new about any player on the team? The Knicks have mostly the same questions moving forward when they should be at a stage of figuring things out so they know how to proceed with the rebuild.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by cssdmark View Post
    It does not matter if Frank would have been better than Jack it is about developing Frank.
    Exactly. Build, develop, and live with the results.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    What in the heck are us Knick fans smoking? The benefit may be making the payoffs. The benefit may be attracting other players to come here. The benefit is having a winning culture. Let's face it, the good young players on this team, PLAY. The ones that aren't ready, DON'T.

    Do you think players give 2 sh--ts about whether they're playing with young or old guys? Do you think coaches or organizations care about whether young guys are winning instead of vets. NO For this organization, building a winning culture of one that works hard, is key. Not playing a bunch of kids that are still lost on the court.
    No such thing as a winning culture without high level players. No benefit of making the playoffs without high level players. No one is coming regardless of if the Knicks make the playoffs or not without high level players.

    Everything you want is not possible with the current talent on the team even if they do manage to make the playoffs. I'd argue that the Knicks making the playoffs in their current state is actually not a good thing. No money to sign anyone anyway and no assets to trade for a difference maker. Not a lot of young guys that you can expect to naturally improve. How do they take the next step after making the playoffs?

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    KP's efficiency is on Melo's level. The only difference is KP hasn't learned to pass the ball out of double teams yet.
    KP doesn't know how to use his size yet vs. smaller defenders. He got a little stronger but is not strong enough. Some people were overreacting earlier in the season calling him way better than Towns. KP has improved a lot but he still has work to do. KP's biggest problem to me is that he tries to play like a guard which takes a way from his strengths. He has to adjust to how teams are defending him the same way Dirk adjusted. His rebounding numbers need to improve as well, he's turning into Brook Lopez.

    With all of that said, he needs a good pick and roll point guard with him.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    ]No such thing as a winning culture without high level players. No benefit of making the playoffs without high level players. No one is coming regardless of if the Knicks make the playoffs or not without high level players.

    Everything you want is not possible with the current talent on the team even if they do manage to make the playoffs. I'd argue that the Knicks making the playoffs in their current state is actually not a good thing. No money to sign anyone anyway and no assets to trade for a difference maker. Not a lot of young guys that you can expect to naturally improve. How do they take the next step after making the playoffs?
    Your post is vastly off imo. Winning culture has everything to do with winning, and working hard to win. That culture is VERY important no matter who is on the court. Obviously, we won't win much without top guys, but having a winning mindset of working hard every play and etc, is a must. No benefit of making the payoffs without high level players?? I would argue that you can't make the playoffs without some good players and without a winning mentality.

    No assets? Willy, Frank, Lee, KoQ, Kanter. Not saying these are the best assets but they're assets.


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  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFG-NYC View Post
    KP doesn't know how to use his size yet vs. smaller defenders. He got a little stronger but is not strong enough. Some people were overreacting earlier in the season calling him way better than Towns. KP has improved a lot but he still has work to do. KP's biggest problem to me is that he tries to play like a guard which takes a way from his strengths. He has to adjust to how teams are defending him the same way Dirk adjusted. His rebounding numbers need to improve as well, he's turning into Brook Lopez.

    With all of that said, he needs a good pick and roll point guard with him.
    KP is what he is and he's being asked to do too much, similar to what Melo was being asked to do even though many here will deny it. Once KP gets his batman, in the form of a scoring PG or scoring Point forward, who can dish, you will see him shine. A guy like Butler, P.George, or Kyrie is so needed by this team.
    Last edited by Bivory; 01-11-2018 at 11:41 AM.


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