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  1. #46
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    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohye View Post
    Those numbers equate to a lifetime average MLB pitcher. He had one really good year. Rest of the time he's been league average. I'm sure a move to the al and in a small park guy will be league average at best.
    What?


    The average MLB starter last year had a 4.49 ERA

    League average starter ERA's/FIP's since 2013

    2013 - 4.01/3.95
    2014 - 3.82/3.81
    2015 - 4.10/4.03
    2016 - 4.34/4.30
    2017 - 4.49/4.48

    Overall - 4.14 ERA for starters since the start of 2013.

    How is a 3.50 ERA league average?

    Even if you just conveniently remove his 2015 season (which you obviously can't remove it from the data because it doesn't fit the argument), he still has a 3.82 ERA

  2. #47
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    Nov 2011
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    612
    seriously 29 other teams could use a 2-3 starter, how did pirates take this as their best offer

  3. #48
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    Jun 2012
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    2,152
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Cole is a lifetime 112 ERA+, 3.27 FIP starter who has topped 200 innings in 2 of the 4 seasons that was an option for him.

    He gave up half his career home runs against last year (like a lot of the league), despite his batted ball rates remaining the same (except for the HR/FB ratio).

    He has two years of cost control, and will be paid something around 17-19M for those two years (depending how this year goes).


    According to Sickels

    Moran was 5th (B)
    Martin was 13th (B-)

    Musgrove and Feliz are both former prospects who don't appear to have much upside left after showings in the big leagues.

    I'd say this was an underpay for Cole. The Pirates didn't get enough.
    Musgrove has thrown 170IP in his career and you figure we've seen all there is to see with him eh? Might just be a tad premature. Michael Feliz is only 24 and already had one really good season in 2016.

  4. #49
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    1,796
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryptamine View Post
    Musgrove has thrown 170IP in his career and you figure we've seen all there is to see with him eh? Might just be a tad premature. Michael Feliz is only 24 and already had one really good season in 2016.
    The problem is that these guys have pretty low ceilings. The Pirates wonít be contending for a few years at least either so they should be targeting guys who are younger and have higher ceilings not utility/#4 type players


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #50
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    Jun 2012
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    945
    Incredible deal for Houston!

    Theyre by far the best team on paper right now. They can sustain three to four guys having off years and still be a 95 win team.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryptamine View Post
    Musgrove has thrown 170IP in his career and you figure we've seen all there is to see with him eh? Might just be a tad premature. Michael Feliz is only 24 and already had one really good season in 2016.
    I assume there is plenty left. They just don't have the value they did when they were prospects.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsbats View Post
    Incredible deal for Houston!

    Theyre by far the best team on paper right now. They can sustain three to four guys having off years and still be a 95 win team.
    If it's the older guys like McCann, Riddick, sure, but what if it guys like Correra, Bregman, Springer?

    The World Series hangover is a thing. Do not believe Houston will be exempt from it. Maybe they survive it like the Cubs did, but they will experience it at some point during the season.
    Screw sabermetics.

  8. #53
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    Nov 2008
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    one less landing spot for Yu Darvish, if he takes the most money I see him with the Twins .

  9. #54
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    Dec 2008
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    This kind of shows how the trade market has gotten weaker over the years unless youíre a young star with a deal similar to Yelich or Sale.

    Teams just arenít paying what they did in 2015 on trades anymore, itís reflected in FA too.

    As a Mets fan, it sucks that this trend happened when the Mets needed to sell some guys off.

  10. #55
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    Huntington was on MLBN radio with Jim Bowden and Jim Duquette this morning on their front office show, and he was selling the deal as the Pirates getting three top 100 prospects for Cole. He made sure to mention that Gleyber Torres was off the table with the Yankees too.

    I do think he valued getting some major league ready pieces, though.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I assume there is plenty left. They just don't have the value they did when they were prospects.
    I don't think it's a lack of upside, so much as it's the Astros position on the win curve they decided it was better to cash out their upside on Cole rather than take the time necessary to develop them into valuable commodities.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    I don't think it's a lack of upside, so much as it's the Astros position on the win curve they decided it was better to cash out their upside on Cole rather than take the time necessary to develop them into valuable commodities.
    Well yeah, obviously. I was referring to both players values as having dropped since a few years ago. It was the above back and forth.

  13. #58
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    Mar 2007
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    Houston, TX
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    I'm a little late on this, but as an Astros fan, I was ecstatic. At best, Cole could be their No.2 or No. 3. At worst, he's the best No. 4 or No. 5 in baseball.

    And to do this deal and not give up Tucker, Whitley or Martes is unbelievable. Don't know how Lunhow pulled it off. Musgrove is the biggest short-term loss, as he was a bjg piece of their bullpen, but I'm happy with the arms they've added to their bench, and Peacock and McCugh are basically starters pitching out of the pen now. Joe also just couldn't sustain any consistency as a starter when given the chance, and I honestly don't know that starting is in his future long-term.

    I will not miss Feliz. He was just wildly inconsistent last season. Has great stuff, but he has games where he couldn't get an out if he walked up to the batter and begged him on his hands and knees. Just some truly horrid outings.

    Moran is the guy with upside. Solid all-around prospect who played well in limited minutes this year. If not for an injury he sustained late in the season, he might have stuck around the roster and been there for the postseason run. But with the Astros' stacked infield, he was never going to start.

    I like some of these guys, but I honestly think Pittsburgh should have gotten more. This is easily the most stacked rotation Houston has had since 2005 with Clemens, Oswalt and Pettite. Can't wait for the season to start!

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