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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Brady checks down, doesn’t matter, he’s the goat.

    Any other qb, uh, look at the game managers!!!!!
    Another Philly fan who doesn’t understand. Shocker.

    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Except our season isn’t over, hence my point.

    And Foles was fine, nobody said he was incredible. Sorry you don’t have the brain power to read words.
    Sarcasm...

    I thought he was “pretty good”? Just fine now?

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green_Monster View Post
    Another Philly fan who doesn’t understand. Shocker.



    Sarcasm...

    I thought he was “pretty good”? Just fine now?
    He was both. Mind blown.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Brady checks down, doesn’t matter, he’s the goat.

    Any other qb, uh, look at the game managers!!!!!
    Yeah except your game managers going to throw for under 300 yards and 10-14 points on the board. Brady throws check downs for 300+ and 30+. If it's so easy, I would think every QB in the league would be doing what Brady does. It clearly works. Or maybe they're just too stupid...IDK.

    I guess his checks at the line of scrimmage mean nothing. Your typical game manager is totally calling the game at the line of scrimmage.

    Brady takes what the D gives him, that's why he's an MVP not a game manager. A game manager takes what the OC gives him in his headset. Wannabe MVP's ignore what the defense gives them and try to make plays with their natural gifts (Legs, Arm...i.e Cam Newton)
    Last edited by Oakmont_4; 01-15-2018 at 07:36 AM.

    City of Champions

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Brady takes what the D gives him, that's why he's an MVP not a game manager. A game manager takes what the OC gives him in his headset. Wannabe MVP's ignore what the defense gives them and try to make plays with their natural gifts (Legs, Arm...i.e Cam Newton)
    Wow.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Brady takes what the D gives him, that's why he's an MVP not a game manager. A game manager takes what the OC gives him in his headset. Wannabe MVP's ignore what the defense gives them and try to make plays with their natural gifts (Legs, Arm...i.e Cam Newton)
    Hahahaha.....seriously.

    PROCESSING

  6. #156
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    The biggest difference in this game (besides the vast gap in overall talent between the teams) was the offensive line play, in both the running and passing game. The OL for NE was pretty much perfect, and the Titans OL was a disaster.

    Tony Romo was monumentally better in this game than he was last week. The exception was when he said NE wasn't going to have a cakewalk after trailing 7-0). We all knew the second shoe was going to drop -- and it dropped hard.
    Last edited by MidwestJimmy; 01-15-2018 at 11:57 AM.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Brady checks down, doesn’t matter, he’s the goat.

    Any other qb, uh, look at the game managers!!!!!
    Brady isn't that often checking down though. You're equating short throws to check downs. All check downs are short throws but not all short throws are check downs.

    Where a QB gets you in trouble is if he's being hesitant to throw downfield when plays are there to be made. It's tough to score in the NFL so when chunk plays are there you gotta take them. You're hurting your team if you're being too conservative and giving those up for little dump offs.

    That's very different than running plays containing route combinations specifically designed to get a guy open underneath with room to run.

    That's the main difference between guys like Brady/Brees throwing short a lot compared to guys like Alex Smith that get the "game manager" label. Brady/Brees are often throwing short as part of the overall offensive strategy specifically designed to capitalize on a defensive weakness. And their teams feel comfortable doing that so often underneath because they trust the QB to not make bad decisions where there's heavy traffic. Alex Smith type QBs are just checking down after getting gun shy if something isn't wide open downfield.

    Now that's not to say that Brady/Brees/etc. don't also check down because inevitably that's the smart play sometimes. But they aren't inhibiting their offense's potential the way those "game manager" QBs are. Not all short passes are equal.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  8. #158
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    PSD isn't ready for an Eagles and Patriots Super Bowl Lol.

    The return... 2018-19

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Brady isn't that often checking down though. You're equating short throws to check downs. All check downs are short throws but not all short throws are check downs.

    Where a QB gets you in trouble is if he's being hesitant to throw downfield when plays are there to be made. It's tough to score in the NFL so when chunk plays are there you gotta take them. You're hurting your team if you're being too conservative and giving those up for little dump offs.

    That's very different than running plays containing route combinations specifically designed to get a guy open underneath with room to run.

    That's the main difference between guys like Brady/Brees throwing short a lot compared to guys like Alex Smith that get the "game manager" label. Brady/Brees are often throwing short as part of the overall offensive strategy specifically designed to capitalize on a defensive weakness. And their teams feel comfortable doing that so often underneath because they trust the QB to not make bad decisions where there's heavy traffic. Alex Smith type QBs are just checking down after getting gun shy if something isn't wide open downfield.

    Now that's not to say that Brady/Brees/etc. don't also check down because inevitably that's the smart play sometimes. But they aren't inhibiting their offense's potential the way those "game manager" QBs are. Not all short passes are equal.
    Ok I'll bite a little bit here because you are fun to debate with:

    There some things to me that come with where this started....taking what the defense gives you and being smart with the ball. That's what we're talking about Brady doing Saturday. In quite a few cases it can be said that's what Smith is doing. To me there's a big difference in the "Captain Checkdown" who makes one read and dumps it, over the guys like Smith who goes through his reads before checking it down. In most "game manager" cases throwing to the checkdown or hot read is what the defense gave him.

    My QB right now (well seasons over but he'll be back next year) fancies himself Brett Farve. I work with my OC to get him out of that so much. The big one we talk with him about is throwing into the blitz because that pass catcher is usually wide open (it's HS athletics, no team is that fast). He complains that he's checking it down and looks like Alex Smith. We constantly remind him that it's the right play. He's also not that mobile but thinks he can outrun everyone, so when he makes his two reads (again it's HS, we're a AAA team, that's about the most you get) he thinks of running and takes a lot of sacks and coughs up the ball once a game. We tell him to hit the TE on the delay or the RB on the wheel. Again he complains about it being the check down. We remind him, no it's not the check down it's the right play.

    We aren't making him a game manager by hitting those (which is what Alex Smith does a lot), we're getting him to make the right plays. In HS if you follow the blitz, hit a delay to the TE, or hit the RB on a wheel route; you most likely are picking up a good chunk of yards. The same can be true in the NFL too.

    So to me there's a huuuuge huuuuge difference in what you are talking about. Alex Smith is also taking what defenses give him. Remember when talking Smith, Reid does not take many deep shots on teams. McNabb got the same treatment. Why do you think Foles/Kolb/Vick/Feeley/Garcia all had a great year as his backup? Because that's Reids offense. It's why he wanted Smith. He knew Smith could run the offense to perfection.

    Even though he just hurt my team....Bortles has been my 100% definition of "game manager" this year.

    PROCESSING

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young$avage View Post
    PSD isn't ready for an Eagles and Patriots Super Bowl Lol.
    By the way if the Patriots and Eagles play each other again, can you guys please leak your parade route again. Thanks.


    PAPI SMASH!

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-bay View Post
    By the way if the Patriots and Eagles play each other again, can you guys please leak your parade route again. Thanks.
    Lol I never heard about that until recently. I think we've learned our lesson lol.

    The return... 2018-19

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Ok I'll bite a little bit here because you are fun to debate with:

    There some things to me that come with where this started....taking what the defense gives you and being smart with the ball. That's what we're talking about Brady doing Saturday. In quite a few cases it can be said that's what Smith is doing. To me there's a big difference in the "Captain Checkdown" who makes one read and dumps it, over the guys like Smith who goes through his reads before checking it down. In most "game manager" cases throwing to the checkdown or hot read is what the defense gave him.

    My QB right now (well seasons over but he'll be back next year) fancies himself Brett Farve. I work with my OC to get him out of that so much. The big one we talk with him about is throwing into the blitz because that pass catcher is usually wide open (it's HS athletics, no team is that fast). He complains that he's checking it down and looks like Alex Smith. We constantly remind him that it's the right play. He's also not that mobile but thinks he can outrun everyone, so when he makes his two reads (again it's HS, we're a AAA team, that's about the most you get) he thinks of running and takes a lot of sacks and coughs up the ball once a game. We tell him to hit the TE on the delay or the RB on the wheel. Again he complains about it being the check down. We remind him, no it's not the check down it's the right play.

    We aren't making him a game manager by hitting those (which is what Alex Smith does a lot), we're getting him to make the right plays. In HS if you follow the blitz, hit a delay to the TE, or hit the RB on a wheel route; you most likely are picking up a good chunk of yards. The same can be true in the NFL too.

    So to me there's a huuuuge huuuuge difference in what you are talking about. Alex Smith is also taking what defenses give him. Remember when talking Smith, Reid does not take many deep shots on teams. McNabb got the same treatment. Why do you think Foles/Kolb/Vick/Feeley/Garcia all had a great year as his backup? Because that's Reids offense. It's why he wanted Smith. He knew Smith could run the offense to perfection.

    Even though he just hurt my team....Bortles has been my 100% definition of "game manager" this year.
    The distinction I'm trying to make is that "game manager" isn't a term I'd use for someone who throws short. It's what I use for QBs that take on limited responsibility compared to the great ones. Often they go hand in hand but the idea that short passes are easy is an over-genarilzation. Yes, the actual throw might be easier, but often times they're set up by the QB's ability to decisively read the defense. Spread the defense out, use some motion to identify coverage and then the QB knows where he's going before the snap. QB gets it out quickly and decisively. That might not be a tough throw but the QB is handling significant responsibility to read the D, diagnose the weak spot and then hit the throw. All in a short amount amount of time. And with all the traffic there is underneath and chance for tipped balls you're putting a lot of faith in the QB in those spots to

    That's very different than something like this. QB does a bootleg and has one guy going deep, one intermediate, one short check down. He goes 1, 2, 3 and checks it down. That's an easy read for the QB. It's basically a play designed to "dumb it down" for him. We've seen that type of stuff with QBs like Kaepernick before. Obviously you always want easy reads but unfortunately NFL defenses have good athletes so it's tough to always get those. So if you have to rely on them you can often limit your overall offensive potential in relation to a QB you can put more trust in.

    So when I say Brady isn't a game manager, I mean he falls more into that first category. He might be throwing short but he's usually taking significant responsibility to get those short throws through reading the D, identifying coverage bv using motion, etc. It's not like they're dumbing things down for him to just take short throws on easy reads. Whether it's a short throw, long throw, intermediate, whatever, Brady is taking on significant responsibility in the offense. The game managers to me are the ones that have things dumbed down for them so they can be ultra conservative and really play just not to mess up.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

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