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  1. #61
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    Keenum's career norms arent that poor. Also his career norms were established on garbage teams so i think it is reasonable to expect those norms to be a bit better with a good staff and team.

    *i agree with everything youre saying jack. just here to defend keenum because i think he is decent the same way i think tyrod is decent. They're good QB's but not Franchise QB's. Their best case is to pull a foles but for that you need literally all of the other pieces to be perfect.

  2. #62
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    I'd definitely prefer Tyrod over Foles. Major mistake if the bills consider that move. MAJOR.

  3. #63
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    So...let's say we don't make the mistake of one of these FA QBs.

    What is the price to move to #4 let's say (or even #2).

    Both our 1sts this year. A 2nd next year. Anything else? Do you think it also has to include next year's first instead of the 2nd?

    I heard one possibility is also including Cordy Glenn to the giants in a move up.

  4. #64
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    I hope they don't include cordy, I wish they never gave up Peters. If we had both cordy and Peter's than this team would look a lot different. I prefer to give 3 1sts if we're moving up to #2.

  5. #65
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    The more i think about it I would be throwing 3 1sts at the first few picks. We got a game changer in last year's darft in white so it's essentially moving 2 1sts (this year's and next) for a top QB in a top QB draft. 3 1sts would be a lot to turn down for a team that already has a QB.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    3 1sts would be a lot to turn down for a team that already has a QB.
    Sounds like that team would be the Colts at #3. Potentially Giants at 2.

    If the colts are not certain on Luck's future, they could just go QB there. You never know.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Smuggler View Post
    Any thoughts on what it would cost us to move to #4?

    My concern in general is we have a lot of holes to fill, and that gets exacerbated by trading up.
    Most of the trades I've seen, based on the trade value chart, include two firsts (one this year and one next year or both this year) along with a pick in round 4 or 5. I'd have no problem with the Bills overpaying though, which is what typically happens anyway when teams know that the other team is trading up for a QB.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    If we find a QB first, playing behind this line, and throwing to these receivers, he will be destroyed and suffer the same fate as Andrew Luck, who has always played behind the 2nd worse offensive line of the league.


    As I said before, Keenum was nothing. A Career back up with a losing record. Below average at best. Goes to the Vikings, has an offensive line, has Diggs, Theilin, Rudolph and a strong running game and now fans everywhere want to sign him, when before this year, fans wouldn't even ask the guy for his autograph if they were sitting next to him at the bus stop. Fix the real problems first. Get a line, get offensive weapons, then you will see any QB in the league survive.

    People could also look no further than Foles as well. Philly got rid of him and nobody in the league wanted him. They then pick him back up, fix the mistakes that Chip Kelly made and he wins the superbowl. There is a reason we saw two QB's look fantastic over there. Ertz, a running game, Jeffries, Aghabor, Torry Smith and an offensive line that protects their QB. Does anyone actually believe for one minute that if Foles or Kennum had our line and Receivers, either of those teams win 5 games this year.

    And look what happened with Peterman this year. When we drafted him, everyone here loved him. Citing all the "experts" who call him the steal of the draft and the most NFL ready QB. On this board, everyone loved him. Then by watching Tyrod, and not realizing where the problems truly are with this team, everyone, including the coaches, thought we could be better with Peterman playing. Then the LA game happened. Then, people started realizing that Peterman only looked good in the mop up games he played, because other teams played the prevent defense and allowed him to waste time off the clock for a meaningless score when the game was already lost for the Bills. Then, people started to realize, Tyrod overcame a lot of deficiencies this team has, that no other QB could have. And now people want both QB's gone, thinking the next QB, who has never even seen an NFL field, will be better. It is pretty funny.
    Andrew Luck made it to the AFC championship game with those same holes.

    I guess both points are proven. However, it took years for Luck to become damaged. The hope here is that the Bills would immediately begin to fill holes in the years that followed. Luck was drafted in 2012 and the Colts somehow have still not been able to give him an offensive line or run game. I don't think that's the norm. Look how far the Eagles have come within the last two years. That may not be the norm either, but it's probably somewhere in between.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    If we find a QB first, playing behind this line, and throwing to these receivers, he will be destroyed and suffer the same fate as Andrew Luck, who has always played behind the 2nd worse offensive line of the league.


    As I said before, Keenum was nothing. A Career back up with a losing record. Below average at best. Goes to the Vikings, has an offensive line, has Diggs, Theilin, Rudolph and a strong running game and now fans everywhere want to sign him, when before this year, fans wouldn't even ask the guy for his autograph if they were sitting next to him at the bus stop. Fix the real problems first. Get a line, get offensive weapons, then you will see any QB in the league survive.

    People could also look no further than Foles as well. Philly got rid of him and nobody in the league wanted him. They then pick him back up, fix the mistakes that Chip Kelly made and he wins the superbowl. There is a reason we saw two QB's look fantastic over there. Ertz, a running game, Jeffries, Aghabor, Torry Smith and an offensive line that protects their QB. Does anyone actually believe for one minute that if Foles or Kennum had our line and Receivers, either of those teams win 5 games this year.

    And look what happened with Peterman this year. When we drafted him, everyone here loved him. Citing all the "experts" who call him the steal of the draft and the most NFL ready QB. On this board, everyone loved him. Then by watching Tyrod, and not realizing where the problems truly are with this team, everyone, including the coaches, thought we could be better with Peterman playing. Then the LA game happened. Then, people started realizing that Peterman only looked good in the mop up games he played, because other teams played the prevent defense and allowed him to waste time off the clock for a meaningless score when the game was already lost for the Bills. Then, people started to realize, Tyrod overcame a lot of deficiencies this team has, that no other QB could have. And now people want both QB's gone, thinking the next QB, who has never even seen an NFL field, will be better. It is pretty funny.
    You and Peterman's family are the only ones with that perception of him. You are taking what was said about him waaaaaay out of context.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Smuggler View Post
    Sounds like that team would be the Colts at #3. Potentially Giants at 2.

    If the colts are not certain on Luck's future, they could just go QB there. You never know.
    I feel like the Colts are going to live and die by Luck, and honestly, getting a pair of 1sts and a package of additional picks from the Bills would go a long way to finally putting a team around him. They've wasted so much of his career by giving him RB castaways, no defense, and a poor offensive line.

  11. #71
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    There is an awful lot at play with the first five picks. There's conversation that Rosen doesn't want to play for Cleveland and who could blame him. Allen has made it no secret that he wants to be the 1st overall pick in the draft and would play for Cleveland. Manning is expected to return to New York and the Giants have a front office connection with Beane. Indianapolis isn't likely to give up on Luck yet and may value moving out of the 3rd overall pick because they quite literally need all of the help they can get. Cleveland could trade out of the 4th overall pick to pick up additional picks. Lastly, Denver could end up signing Cousins and deal the 5th overall pick to a team looking to move up for a specific QB and pick up additional picks.

    Between the teams in the top 5 and the Bills collection of picks in this draft, the time has never been more right for our team to make a move. I'm really, really split on Mayfield and Rosen. I really like both of them. Darnold is right there with them, but he hurt his own stock a bit this past season.

  12. #72
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    I am thinking Darnold goes #1. Teams realize the crazy floor Allen has and it may scare them off. Buffalo will probably like him because of his arm. But accuracy issues are a MAJOR problem. Big arms don't matter if you're not accurate.

    So, I think that leaves Rosen and Mayfield ideally to us. If we trade up.

    I do prefer Tyrod over any veteran out there right now.

  13. #73
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    Yeah the only vet I would consider over tyrod is luck. No franchise guys out there. I'm in Canada so I don't get good coverage. Who is the QB spec with wheels?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    You and Peterman's family are the only ones with that perception of him. You are taking what was said about him waaaaaay out of context.
    I am not taking anything out of context. But as usual, your opinion is blocking you from seeing the truth. And the truth is, John Gruden knew the Bills were selecting Peterman, because Gruden said him and McDermott talked extensively about Peterman and they both agreed he is the most NFL ready QB in the draft.

    So ignore it all you want, but this shows McDermott really really likes Peterman.

    Also, Maholmes is better than any of the guys coming out this year, who will be around when the Bills draft. Therefore, If they wanted a QB, they would have taken Malhomes, Period. McDermott did not stupidly think he could trade picks with KC, who always pick 21st-30. Then a team in the top 5 would want to lose their opportunity to draft a QB and that the KC pick would come anywhere near close enough to get the deal done.

    McDermott Then risked the season for Peterman to play in LA and his perception of Peterman hasn't waivered. My perception of him isn't high either, but for me, my opinion doesn't ignore the truth, which is the Bills organization will be turning to Peterman to control this team whether you guys like it or not. There actions speak volumes so far. If I had to put money on it, I would bet If we don't see Tyrod, Peterman and a journeyman QB on this roster next year, it will be Peterman a QB like McCown or Moore, and Webb as #3 next year. No team in the top 5 will trade away from drafting a QB. Dream all you want.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Andrew Luck made it to the AFC championship game with those same holes.

    I guess both points are proven. However, it took years for Luck to become damaged. The hope here is that the Bills would immediately begin to fill holes in the years that followed. Luck was drafted in 2012 and the Colts somehow have still not been able to give him an offensive line or run game. I don't think that's the norm. Look how far the Eagles have come within the last two years. That may not be the norm either, but it's probably somewhere in between.
    Everyone that knows football has to laugh at this. Because obviously, you forgot Indy had the worse division in the league when Luck was playing. Ten and Jax historically would only win about 5 games a season and 8 or 9 wins would usually take the division since probably 2013. That is until the recent season by Jax.

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