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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    New England is sort of a unique case. I think they are just really good at finding guys that fit their system more than anything, espeically on offense.

    I mean, their system is not super difficult to figure out. They like outside WRs who go downfield and inside WRs run short but precise routes. And for runningback they like having 1 goalline hammer type and the rest are more athletic pass catchers. The execution of their system is incredible, but I donít think itís changed a ton over the years as new personnel can aboard. As the talent levels change, they use guys more or less, but the system is generally pretty close.
    Well that's a system i'd love to have there in Green Bay lol. No need to over complicate things. That's one thing i hated about Dom. He'd come up with all these different packages and blitz schemes that i felt like it made communication very difficult. Just come up with a simple but effective scheme, let our young players learn it and master it first and then go from there. Just like i wish the Packers coaching staff as a whole would stop making their players learn all the positions. Just let these young guys learn 1 position, master it and then you can see if they can pick up another position.

  2. #122
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    I think youíll like and hate pettine then. If you havenít, google ďaccidental coach of the Cleveland BrownsĒ for an old SI article on pettine. But in his article, he talks about how the concepts of his scheme remain the same, you just set of switch out who does what each week. I probably wonít do it justice and this might be confusing, but letís say he has a play called ďblitz AĒ. And letís say for blitz A, if calls for two guys to rush up the middle on the gaps on either side of the center. Then it calls for a guy to rush the outside shoulder of the guard and a guy to rush the outside shoulder of the tackle. Then a different guy loops from outside the tackle box to follow the guy through the guard hole. Basically the play is two guys push the center gaps, 1 guy each pushes the guard and tackle, then a 5th guy stunts around to find a gap and maybe get a free run.

    So in pettines system, blitz A will remain in the playbook all year. Itís a relatively simple play. However, what changes each week that makes things difficult on the offense is the guy responsible for each job changes. So week 1, itís two down linemen that push the center gap, an inside backer pushes the outside shoulder of the guard, a 3rd down lineman reaches to the outside shoulder of the tackle and then the olb is the loop guy who should get the free run. But the next week. One down lineman drops into coverage, the 2 inside backers push the center gaps, the other downlineman pushes outside the guard, a safety rushes the outside shoulder of the tackle and the slot corner loops around. Then you drop into a zone coverage.

    So all in all, the way I understand pettines system is that the plays are pretty simple. Itís a pretty thin playbook with relatively basic concepts. However, you need to understand what everyoneís role in the defense is, because one week youíre dropping in coverage, the next you might be the decoy blitz and the next you might be the stunt guy.

  3. #123
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    And I go both ways on your learn every position comment. Iím assuming youíre referencing wr in particular, since thatís one of the more advertised positions we do that at. I see both sides of the coin.

    On one side, like you said, it adds complexity for young guys. And a guy could possibly play earlier if he didnít have to learn so much. Although, I will counter that with Cobb. His rookie year I think we ran more packaged stuff for him. If he was in the game, it was a specific call and not a hurry up lets run 10 plays in a row situation. So if we drafted a Kirk type, Iím sure we would do something similar.

    On the flip side, having everyone know the whole play can be a huge asset in two ways. First, it makes injury replacement that much easier. Letís say Allison is jordys backup and Clark is Adams backup. If we like Allison more, but Adams gets hurt, we arenít tied to having to bring in Clark. But just as importantly, knowing every position helps with those backyard broken plays aaron loves. Understanding where everyone else should be and what direction they are headed should help you figure out where open parts of the field will be when the scramble play starts.

    And itís not just knowing the play because we have a lot of option routes. If you understand the coverage and know itís a cover 3 letís say, you know the opposite wr should have run the stop instead of the fly, so you know in a scramble, he may stay underneath and you have an opportunity to go deep. Whereas if itís a cover 2, he probably took the go and you should work open underneath.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    And I go both ways on your learn every position comment. Iím assuming youíre referencing wr in particular, since thatís one of the more advertised positions we do that at. I see both sides of the coin.

    On one side, like you said, it adds complexity for young guys. And a guy could possibly play earlier if he didnít have to learn so much. Although, I will counter that with Cobb. His rookie year I think we ran more packaged stuff for him. If he was in the game, it was a specific call and not a hurry up lets run 10 plays in a row situation. So if we drafted a Kirk type, Iím sure we would do something similar.

    On the flip side, having everyone know the whole play can be a huge asset in two ways. First, it makes injury replacement that much easier. Letís say Allison is jordys backup and Clark is Adams backup. If we like Allison more, but Adams gets hurt, we arenít tied to having to bring in Clark. But just as importantly, knowing every position helps with those backyard broken plays aaron loves. Understanding where everyone else should be and what direction they are headed should help you figure out where open parts of the field will be when the scramble play starts.

    And itís not just knowing the play because we have a lot of option routes. If you understand the coverage and know itís a cover 3 letís say, you know the opposite wr should have run the stop instead of the fly, so you know in a scramble, he may stay underneath and you have an opportunity to go deep. Whereas if itís a cover 2, he probably took the go and you should work open underneath.
    I was mostly talking about OL, CB's and LBers. I understand why they make these guys practice at multiple positions in case of injury and i am completely fine with that. Problem is we are always a fairly young team and i feel like you should let these young guys learn and get comfortable at 1 position before you start asking them to learn another position. Every position has it's own assignments, foot work, hand placement, etc etc. And i feel like when you start asking these guys to learn everything it just over complicates things. Just my opinion tho.

  5. #125
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    I donít think we do it intentionally at OL letís say. I mean, spriggs came in as a tackle and was taught up as a tackle until there were injuries at guard that made him the best option. Same thing with McCray. He wasnít supposed to be a tackle but injuries made him the best choice.

    And with the way OL is around the league (teams usually donít have more than 8 active for a game) you sort of have to know something about just about every position since thereís a good chance youíll be pressed into action at some point. You donít usually have two active backup guards, so if both guards get hurt, someone will be pressed into duty. So I donít think thatís just a packers thing.

    And maybe we do move guys a little more than most teams. But tackle is so much more valuable than guard. So staring a guy like TJ Lang at tackle for the beginning of his career to see if he can cut it there before sliding him inside is probably smart. Iíd imagine thatís the progression for spriggs as well. Give him the opportunity to compete at tackle, and if that doesnít be work, which it looks like it isnít, consider sliding him inside.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigCheese12 View Post
    I was mostly talking about OL, CB's and LBers. I understand why they make these guys practice at multiple positions in case of injury and i am completely fine with that. Problem is we are always a fairly young team and i feel like you should let these young guys learn and get comfortable at 1 position before you start asking them to learn another position. Every position has it's own assignments, foot work, hand placement, etc etc. And i feel like when you start asking these guys to learn everything it just over complicates things. Just my opinion tho.
    You realize youíre trying to explain something to a brick wall, right? Lol.

    I totally understand your point and agree.


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  7. #127
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    You have admittedly said you donít watch any other teams besides the packers that closely. Yet youíre also convinced we are the only team who does things a certain way.

    For the game vs Carolina, New Orleans has 7 active OL, do you really think those backups donít at least generally know all of the other line positions besides maybe center?

    And I donít get the LB and CB thing. Our lbs are either inside or outside. Besides a few exotic blitz packages, the only guy whoís really played both in recent years is clay. Everyone else is one or the other. And same with cbs, you typically start as either an outside or an inside guy. King strictly played outside this year. Randall wasnít mostly outside until this year, when they pushed him inside to fill the ďStarĒ position.

    I guess I really donít understand where this notion that we are asking those guys to learn too many spots comes from. Was our scheme on defense probsbly too complex? Yea, it probably was. But it wasnít because we didnít let guys focus on learning a position.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    You have admittedly said you donít watch any other teams besides the packers that closely. Yet youíre also convinced we are the only team who does things a certain way.

    For the game vs Carolina, New Orleans has 7 active OL, do you really think those backups donít at least generally know all of the other line positions besides maybe center?

    And I donít get the LB and CB thing. Our lbs are either inside or outside. Besides a few exotic blitz packages, the only guy whoís really played both in recent years is clay. Everyone else is one or the other. And same with cbs, you typically start as either an outside or an inside guy. King strictly played outside this year. Randall wasnít mostly outside until this year, when they pushed him inside to fill the ďStarĒ position.

    I guess I really donít understand where this notion that we are asking those guys to learn too many spots comes from. Was our scheme on defense probsbly too complex? Yea, it probably was. But it wasnít because we didnít let guys focus on learning a position.
    I donít even read your posts anymore.


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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I donít think we do it intentionally at OL letís say. I mean, spriggs came in as a tackle and was taught up as a tackle until there were injuries at guard that made him the best option. Same thing with McCray. He wasnít supposed to be a tackle but injuries made him the best choice.

    And with the way OL is around the league (teams usually donít have more than 8 active for a game) you sort of have to know something about just about every position since thereís a good chance youíll be pressed into action at some point. You donít usually have two active backup guards, so if both guards get hurt, someone will be pressed into duty. So I donít think thatís just a packers thing.

    And maybe we do move guys a little more than most teams. But tackle is so much more valuable than guard. So staring a guy like TJ Lang at tackle for the beginning of his career to see if he can cut it there before sliding him inside is probably smart. Iíd imagine thatís the progression for spriggs as well. Give him the opportunity to compete at tackle, and if that doesnít be work, which it looks like it isnít, consider sliding him inside.
    I agree that it probably makes more sense to have the lineman (on both sides of the ball) practice and learn all the positions. I don't really have an issue with it. I mostly have an issue with the secondary. Making safties play/learn CB and vice versa. If you draft a player who was a safety then just let him be a safety lol. At least until he's comfortable with that first and then try him out at CB. The communication and assignments was piss poor the entire year and i just feel like we ask these young defenders to learn and do too much that they aren't really ready for.

    Quote Originally Posted by n8ghee View Post
    You realize youíre trying to explain something to a brick wall, right? Lol.

    I totally understand your point and agree.


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    lol i know. I am always down for some conversation though. You have two different kind of packers fans. Ones that are cool maintaining what we have as long as we are making the playoffs and ones that are expecting more from this franchise who has one of the best QB's that's ever played the game. I am sorry but us only winning 2 rings between Favre and Rodgers is flat out sad lol. You have 2 Hofers and you can't manage more than that? But yet you have the Patriots that have 1 hofer and they are bout to win their 6th? GTFOH lol. I am not fine with mediocrity when we have a QB like Rodgers under center.

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