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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I can't believe people that know there was a lot of local reporting well before the piece refuse to admit that.
    I'm not refuting the instances that happened. But no local network made the bold claim "this would be their last year together".

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  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Again you avoid that there are a number of locals with these reports before E**N. Is it so painful to admit that?
    Curran said there were other possibilities in today's piece, read that one.



    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Lots of people know. Wives, very close friends, coaches, FO people. What do you think these guys are all in white robes with nary a negative thought?
    Wives? Very close friends? LOL! You're getting ridiculous now. All unnamed "sources" made this story.



    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Sure they want to know. But its doubtful either of the Krafts could craft a decent write up on a college kid at the combine. There is no way they can access what BB knows in any deep way. They can ask - why are we weak against the run. BB can give a few high level comments and a platitude, and that's it.

    Future reference? Why so when BB talks coach speak which sounds like what Snoopy hears they can differentiate it from another coach? They can judge he meta messages, body language, etc. but the content? Please it's a ludicrous concept.
    Puhlease, they aren't potted plants in that house they built. If you were the owner you'd want to know everything he does and they probably do too without stepping on his toes.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    You forgot to mention the mortally laconic manner he did it in, with the ridiculously long pause.

    The only direction the venom is coming is from BB, and TB is the target. Even a blind bat can make that out.
    I guess I'm a blind bat? BB sounded like BB always does...Bored and unfazed by moronic questions with obvious answers.

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  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I'm sure they talk a lot about "stuff" but when it comes to the nuts and bolts of why cut this guy vs this that guy - unless the player is say a rapist - or very expensive, then even you know they have no input to BB - until now.

    Right. Bob is in the war room and he AIN'T making decisions there. There you go. Truth. FInally.

    I bet the next thing you'll say is Trump is making the decisions...oops my bad...you already said that in another thread.

  5. #110
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    I can't remember what show it was on, must've been ESPN, or more likely NFL Network, years ago. They showed the sit down between Kraft, BB and the FO when discussing the upcoming offseason where they had to choose between Seymour and Wilfork. It was a round table discussion. Everyone had input. BB lead the conversation, but did not steer anyone...He just gave the pro and cons to both players and some financial considerations. At the end of the conversation, all parties had agreed that re-signing Vince was priority number one and if that meant losing Seymour...they had to do it. Kraft wasn't keen on that reality, but he let BB do what he had to do to keep Vince.

    I imagine this conversation has been had in many many cases between Kraft, BB and co...And I imagine it happened with Jimmy as well.

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  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I can't remember what show it was on, must've been ESPN, or more likely NFL Network, years ago. They showed the sit down between Kraft, BB and the FO when discussing the upcoming offseason where they had to choose between Seymour and Wilfork. It was a round table discussion. Everyone had input. BB lead the conversation, but did not steer anyone...He just gave the pro and cons to both players and some financial considerations. At the end of the conversation, all parties had agreed that re-signing Vince was priority number one and if that meant losing Seymour...they had to do it. Kraft wasn't keen on that reality, but he let BB do what he had to do to keep Vince.

    I imagine this conversation has been had in many many cases between Kraft, BB and co...And I imagine it happened with Jimmy as well.
    Well there it is. It's not hard to imagine that's how major decisions are made since Kraft would also be put in tough situations with the media without any foreknowledge of them. That's BB showing great leadership.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green_Monster View Post
    Yeah... doesn’t negate anything I said. Franchising a player hurts you in multiple ways as well as the players value.
    Read again. Easy solution BTW, deal Brady, no need for Franchising.


    And he was better this year than all of those years. You just want to find something to complain about now that a story came out and you don’t want BB to look bad.
    Boo Hoo. You cannot refute my statement so you try and negate it with some ridiculous throw away excuse and then hide it behind some bleating about BB. Pathetic.

    Wrong again buddy.
    I said red zone TD's and Int's. Did you forget to look them up?

    I was off by 4 QB rating points - oooh how awful. QBR I believe is closer. Did you want to look at the personnel BTW? Pats have a wide edge.

    More points scored by Philly then NE in the first 13 games. Hmmm.

    Brady was clearly better. If you’re not even willing to look at facts, stop responding to me.
    Really, and yet Wentz was the general pick for the MVP at the point he got hurt.

    If I asked you to stop responding if you wouldn't look at facts you wouldn't have gone near a post of mine in over a year.

    So you’re not going to take back the false statement after I just proved it wrong? Classic bagwell, he’s never been wrong.
    Take back? What are you 13 years old? I said I had the QB Rating wrong, but you never countered my stats of Red Zone results - why was that? And who are you to demand anything from me? Go back to the Celts board last year and re-read our posts. Getting under your skin? Hhahahhahahhaha good.

    Keep saying Brady will decline, sooner or later you’ll be right lol.
    Sooner that five years dreamer boy.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 01-08-2018 at 08:38 PM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    Nothing to see here folks. That'd be the #4 pick in the 1st round.

    So obvious guys: Kraft said keep TB move JG, Belichick dealt Jimmy to a favorable destination where he'll thrive so BB is vindicated.

    LOL! Good thing they didn't make the deal with the Browns who might have been too busy celebrating to turn in the paperwork on time and the Pats would be hamstrung by the cap next year...check the Browns/McCarron trade if you need to.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    It comes down to this in my eyes. BB did not trade Jimmy in the offseason because he wanted to see how Brady was going to hold up this season.
    Well then he did a half baked job if that was the intent. A very old QB that only played a short season last year getting hit a lot more than most years going into the Fall when BB often says the season is won - all of November and all of December and all of January - with caretaker back-up shorn of what looks like is going to be a very good back-up and what looks like a top 10 QB in this very year.

    You claim this is BB level planning as we know it? Fudge on that.

    When Brady signed his last contract it was structured to resolve the rest of his playing days by this season. Brady's contract jumps to $22 million next year - either he was going to be washed up and cut/traded or if he still looked good they'd renegotiate his contract. Jimmy was the ready and willing successor if Brady was looking at the end of his road.

    and is going to be on a cheaper contract.
    We'll see. If he wants to play hard ball what options do they have? After all his guru got booted and someone from BB's side looks like they dumped a pile of dung on him.

    Brady, who more than likely will enter a final contract negotiation with the patriots this offseason, will CUT his cap number down and sign more a modest 8-11% of the cap as he has his ENTIRE career.
    And your source is - besides history?

    History backs this cap ideology as well. NO SB WINNING TEAM HAS PAID A QB MORE THAN $20MIL. Here's the last 10.
    Misleading without % of cap.

    2008 - Brady
    Wait... what? We won the SB?!?

    At least you have some logic here unlike the two hysterical twins bobbing and weaving with "logic" punches as hard as air.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I'm not refuting the instances that happened. But no local network made the bold claim "this would be their last year together".
    Right neither am I because RK isn't letting BB go, and if he retires unless TB is badly injured the remainder of this year or wins 6 and decides to hang them up, he's here.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  11. #116
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    FOXBORO — Though it never seemed to be in doubt, Bill Belichick fired up his locker room on Monday with an affirmation that he’ll continue to be the Patriots head coach next season. “I’m juiced,” safety Patrick Chung said. “He’s coming back, man. When he’s done, I’ll be done, too.”

    Belichick said he “absolutely” plans to return for a 19th season and also dismissed a strange report from the New York Daily News that insinuated he was interested in the Giants’ vacancy.

    That wasn’t the only controversial report Belichick assaulted yesterday. He also addressed questions about an ESPN story that portrayed a broken relationship among Belichick, quarterback Tom Brady and owner Robert Kraft. The trio released a joint statement Friday to dispute that report, and Belichick continued that march on Monday.

    “We’ve been through this before, and I know you want to report on things that are inaccurate and unattributable,” Belichick said. “And I’m not really interested in responding to all of those random and, I would say in a lot of cases, baseless comments.”

    Belichick added more context Monday afternoon during his weekly interview with WEEI, noting his relationship with Brady and Kraft has “been great.” He also went out of his way to include Brady’s trainer, Alex Guerrero, in his answer.

    “I appreciate everything that Robert has done for me, the opportunities he’s given me and the support,” Belichick told WEEI. “I’ve been pretty lucky to have Tom as the quarterback for those 18 years, playing for 17. He’s a great player to coach, and he’s done a lot for this team. He’s been a huge help for me personally.

    “I have a great relationship with both Robert and Tom. And I would throw in there, since it was part of the article, I feel like I have a good relationship with Alex, too.”


    Poof! There go a lot of foolish opinions...

  12. #117
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    Let's also not forget history here. Let's look at BB's biggest trades

    2017 - Garroppolo - 2018 2nd round pick (at time was projected at #34)
    2016 - Collins - 2017 3nd round pick
    2016 - Jones - Jonathan Cooper and 2017 2nd round pick
    2014 - Mankins - Tim Wright and 2015 4th round pick
    2010 - Moss - 2011 3rd round pick
    2009 - Seymour - 2011 1st round pick (2010 value of 2nd round pick)
    2009 - Vrable/Cassell - 2009 2nd round pick (#33)
    2006 - Branch - 2007 1st round pick (#31)
    2002 - Bledsoe - 2003 1st round pick

    Could it be that BB actually values 2nd round pick more than first round picks. Chandler Jones has been one of, if not the best Pass Rushing DE's in the NFL over the past 2 years...Could he/Should he have gotten more? You could argue he could have. Collins one of the top LB in the game, could you argue he could have gotten a first, at least a 2nd round pick for him? Yup.

    Prior to 2010 BB seemed to go after 1st round picks....He landing one successfully for Bledsoe, Seymour and Deion Branch. Yet the trio of Garropollo, Jones, Moss (similar players with similar trade values) he opted for 2nd and 3rd round picks. Why is that? What happened between these 2 time spans...

    AHHH the new CBA and how rookie contracts are structured! BB now values 2nd and 3rd round picks over first rounders. I think the proof is in the pudding. Let's look at BB's drafts.

    The new CBA went into effect after the draft in 2011

    Here's BB's pre new CBA drafts by round (12 years - 2000-2011) - Traded 3 Pro Bowl players
    Round 1 - 11 picks = .92/year (picked players at #17, #10, #21, #21, #13, #21, #6)
    Round 2 - 17 picks = 1.42/year
    Round 3 - 13 picks = 1.09/year
    Round 4 - 16 picks = 1.34/year

    AVG # of picks rounds 1-4 = 4.75

    Won 3 SB. Lost 2 SB. Lost 2 AFCCG

    Here's BB's post new CBA drafts by round (5 years - 2012-2016) - Traded 3 Pro Bowl players + Jimmy
    Round 1 - 4 picks = .80/year (no picks lower than #21)
    Round 2 - 6 picks = 1.2/year
    Round 3 - 9 picks = 1.80/year
    Round 4 - 9 picks = 1.80/year

    AVG # of picks rounds 1-4 = 5.6

    Won 2 Super Bowls. Lost 3 AFCCG.

    BB has clearly shifted his focus to young, cost controlled players in abundance over higher pedigreed players with bigger contracts and less quantity.

    BB does NOT value first round picks like the rest of the NFL does. The proof is in the pudding. BB no longer trades for future first round picks on draft day. He doesn't trade Pro Bowl players for first round picks. He does not trade QB's with huge upside for first round picks. He wants more picks in rounds 2-3 to mitigate his risk. He's more apt to trust his scouts and take more gambles at low risk, than to pick high, with slightly lesser risk but more financial burden.

    Or just ignore history and buy into hysteria...Your choice.

    City of Champions

  13. #118
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    Wait... what? We won the SB?!?
    I used the year the SB was played in on all the numbers here...

    I see you have no refuting arguments other than rhetorical questions here...

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  14. #119
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    Expanding on my draft ideology above...

    Let's break down the drafts further, particularly in round 1.

    We'll start pre CBA

    2001 - Richard Seymour #6. Building block pick for a weak team

    2002 - Daniel Graham #21 - Traded UP #32, #96, #234 for #21
    -Traded Bledsoe for 2003 first rounder

    2003 - Ty Warren #13 - Traded UP (Bledsoe pick) one spot from #14
    2003 - #19 traded to Baltimore for 2nd rounder (Eugene Wilson) and 2004 first rounder

    2004 - Vince Wilfork #21 (Baltimore Pick)
    2004 - Ben Watson #32 (Original team pick)

    2005 - Logan Mankins #32 (Original team pick)

    2006 - Lawrence Maroney #21 (Original team pick)
    -Traded Deion Branch for 2007 first rounder

    2007 - Brandon Meriweather #24 (Deion Branch Pick)
    2007 - #28 traded to San Fran for 4th round pick (Traded for Moss) and 2008 first rounder

    2008 - Jerod Mayo #10 - Traded down from #7 for additional 3rd rounder (Shaun Crable)
    2008 - Pick forfeited (Spy Gate)

    2009 - #23 traded down for 2nd and two 3rd round picks (ended up being Butler, Tate, Gronk, Edelman)
    -Traded Richard Seymour for 2011 first round pick
    -Traded Vrable/Cassell for second round pick

    2010 - Devin McCourty #27 - Traded down from #22 for an extra 3rd (Taylor Price) and 4th (Aaron Hernandez)
    -Traded Moss for 3rd round pick

    2011 - Nate Solder #17 (Richard Seymour Pick)
    2011 - #28 traded NO for their 2nd rounder (Shane Vereen) and 2012 first round pick.

    Recap
    Original picks - 4 original first rounders
    Future first rounders from picks - 3 (BAL, SF, NO)
    Future 1st picks from players - 3 (Bledsoe, Branch, Seymour)
    Trade UP - 2
    Trade down but still first - 2

    Now lets look post CBA

    2012 - Chandler Jones #21 - Traded UP from #27 + #93
    2012 - Donta Hightower #24 - Traded UP from #31 + 4th rounder

    2013 - #29 traded for a 2nd (Collins), 3rd (Logan Ryan), 4th (Boyce) and 7th (traded for Blount)

    2014 - Dominique Easley #29 (Original pick)
    -Traded Logan Mankins for 4th round pick

    2015 - Malcolm Brown #32 (Original pick)
    -Traded Chandler Jones for 2nd round pick

    2016 - forfeited DeflateGate
    -Traded Jamie Collins for 3rd round pick

    Recap
    Original picks - 2 original first rounders
    Future first rounders from picks - 0
    Future 1st picks from players - 0
    Trade UP - 2
    Trade down but still first - 1

    From what I see here, Bill is still targeting his players like he did pre CBA. If the BPA on his draft board is a fit at his first rounder...He'll take them. He may even still trade up for them as exemplified in 2012. But he's far more apt to trade expiring players looking for big pay days for cheap draft capital. Belichick took too many good but not great players in the middle of round 1 pre CBA. Once the new CBA came about that cost for those players went up further. So rather than drafting the likes of a (Warren, Graham, Meriweather, Maroney) round 1 and pay a premium...He's now more apt to draft a (Ryan, Vareen, Collins, Flowers, Wise) in rounds 2-4...Similar players but cost controlled.
    Last edited by Oakmont_4; 01-08-2018 at 09:32 PM.

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  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Read again. Easy solution BTW, deal Brady, no need for Franchising.
    I read it the first time and my point still stood. Deal the GOAT, right...

    Boo Hoo. You cannot refute my statement so you try and negate it with some ridiculous throw away excuse and then hide it behind some bleating about BB. Pathetic.
    I literally refuted it in that post. Wtf?

    I said red zone TD's and Int's. Did you forget to look them up?

    I was off by 4 QB rating points - oooh how awful. QBR I believe is closer. Did you want to look at the personnel BTW? Pats have a wide edge.

    More points scored by Philly then NE in the first 13 games. Hmmm.
    Lmao at going off of red zone TD’s and INT’s only. I proved you wrong with those stats. Admit it and move along, not that difficult.

    Really, and yet Wentz was the general pick for the MVP at the point he got hurt.

    If I asked you to stop responding if you wouldn't look at facts you wouldn't have gone near a post of mine in over a year.
    No... he wasn’t. Brady was leading at the time of the Wentz injury. Wentz was beginning to catch up but Brady was a good amount ahead statistically.

    Take back? What are you 13 years old? I said I had the QB Rating wrong, but you never countered my stats of Red Zone results - why was that? And who are you to demand anything from me? Go back to the Celts board last year and re-read our posts. Getting under your skin? Hhahahhahahhaha good.

    Sooner that five years dreamer boy.
    So you’re not going to take it back? That’s fine, leaving a false statement out there makes you look even worse.

    And lol, I was right on the Celtics all year. Said they’d lose to the Cavs in the ECF and they did. You thought they’d lose earlier.

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