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  1. #31
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    In no order, Magic/Oscar/Curry/Paul/Stockon.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Gotta put backup-Wade in that list somewhere
    Was going to let him get halfway through the season before I put him right behind Chalmers
    RIP lol, please!

    8/1/2011 - 01/28/2018

    You may not be with us anymore but your name, legacy, and what you stood for will last forever!


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16:32079479
    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Argument for Paul over Stockton?
    Other than him simply being the better and more impactful player?

    That's the problem with anyone who tries to do these things, they never specify if it's by accolades or ability.

    I am tempted to begin a Top 25 all-time list based purely on their actual ability and see how the results differ from an accolades based list.
    I dare you.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone:32079523
    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Argument for Paul over Stockton?
    Statistically Paul is the superior player, and it's not that close. I'll give Stockton the edge as a pure point guard in terms of passing and assist numbers. But I'll take Paul at pretty much everything else. Stockton was slightly more efficient at scoring, but his scoring numbers and usage pale in comparison to Paul. Stockton topped 16 PPG three times in 19 seasons. Paul has done in 12 times in 13 years. And pretty much every advanced statistic on the planet says Paul is the statistically superior player: PER, WS, WS/48, VORP, BPM, ORTG, etc.

    If we measure accolades, Paul already has eight All-NBA teams compared to Stockton's 11, but Paul made All-NBA 1st team four times compared to only twice for Stockton. Paul also has nine All-Defensive appearances compared to five for Stockton, and Paul finished top 10 in MVP voting seven times compared to five times for Stockton.

    And unlike with some other point guards, Stockton really doesn't have a major edge in postseason resume over Paul. In fact, he's known as much for his failures in the playoffs as CP3 is, and unlike Paul, he played with another top 25 player his entire career. So really the only barometers by which we could give Stockton an edge is as a passer and in terms of longevity. But I'm judging by pretty much any other criteria, Chris Paul is the superior player in an all-time discussion.
    Great post. I value longevity more than most but this is a pretty compelling argument. Maybe I should move Paul up on my list.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiG View Post
    1. Lonzo
    2. Lamelo
    3. Liangelo
    4. Chalmers
    5. Mike James
    5-tied. Lavar
    Which one? Obviously they're both contenders.

    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Great post. I value longevity more than most but this is a pretty compelling argument. Maybe I should move Paul up on my list.
    It's all a matter of perspective. Would Stockton have had the same longevity or success if he had to carry Paul's load? Would Paul have more longevity if he never had to be the best player on his own team?

  6. #36
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    1. LeBron
    2. Magic
    3. Curry
    4. Oscar
    5. Paul

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblisterdundee View Post
    1. LeBron
    2. Magic
    3. Curry
    4. Oscar
    5. Paul
    Players who've actually played the PG position for the majority of their careers...

  8. #38
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    In terms of fulfilling the role of the point guard, the 'traditional' role, I've never seen anybody play that position better than John Stockton. But if you are looking at overall game, I think the Big O is likely the best. Now... if you are looking overall impact (impact on the game, helping the team), I think Magic is tops.

    So it really depends on how you look at it. I mean... Westbrook has a case for 'best all-around player' at the PG position (defesive inconsistency aside) as he can score, pass and rebound so well, but his impact on the game, in terms of helpig teammates is highly questionable. Whereas the Big O got the 3D season too, but helped improve things for his team. So, simply being an all-around great player doens't get you a top-five ranking, even if there is a clear case for you being the best all-around player at that position.


    So... I put Stockton, Magic, and the Big O in my top three in no particular order because I feel like it is widely dependent on how an individual is appraising such a list.

    After that... I feel like Chris Paul comes next (yes, I know.. no rings) and then Nash and Kidd (in whatever order you want to put them) follow by Zeke and Payton (in whatever order you want to put them).

    Curry is a question mark to me. What position does he play? Under Mark Jackson, he was a point guard, and one of the best, but under Kerr, it seems like every player on the court is responcible for setting up teammates. He's essentially got 4 poitn guards on the floor at all times, or at least three. Green, KD, and Curry are all setting up teammates throught he system, but everybody is moving the ball around, and everybody is moving without the ball. When playing off the ball, Curry is one of the best scoring SG ever. When playing with the ball, he's a great scoring PG, or passing PG.

    Curry certainly has the skill set and PG designation to qualify for this list, but the traditional positions simply do not apply to the GSW roster, so it is hard to categorize anybody beyond 'front court' and 'wing' and 'backcourt', and even those three categories are fluid (Curry, Klay, KD and Green all play 'wings', while Klay and Curry often play 'backcourt', and KD plays frontcourt, wing, and backcourt, and Green play wing and front court.


    Curry deserves as high a place on the PG list as Chris Paul at least, and likely as high as Stockton, and by the end of his career, will be there with Magic. But his skill set and the system he is in transcend conventional positions, so it seems unfair to pideonhold him to 'point guard'.

    But that said... if I made a top five and inlcude him, they would include (in no particular order), Stockton, Magis, Curry, Chris Paul and the Big O.

    Chris Paul may not see the same sucess that Zeke saw, but he IS the better player, and had he played when Zeke played, he would have been considered clearly better. But in this generation of players, his size makes it harder for him to really excel in a 7-game series against a bigger player like Curry, who would have totally abused and embarassed Zeke were Zeke playing today and Zeke and Paul to have exchange eras, while Paul would have made the Pistons teams even more dominante with his high efficiency scoring and lower assist-to-turnover ratio and defense.



    So yeah... in any order:
    Stockton
    Magic
    O
    CP3
    Curry
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    In terms of fulfilling the role of the point guard, the 'traditional' role, I've never seen anybody play that position better than John Stockton. But if you are looking at overall game, I think the Big O is likely the best. Now... if you are looking overall impact (impact on the game, helping the team), I think Magic is tops.

    So it really depends on how you look at it. I mean... Westbrook has a case for 'best all-around player' at the PG position (defesive inconsistency aside) as he can score, pass and rebound so well, but his impact on the game, in terms of helpig teammates is highly questionable. Whereas the Big O got the 3D season too, but helped improve things for his team. So, simply being an all-around great player doens't get you a top-five ranking, even if there is a clear case for you being the best all-around player at that position.


    So... I put Stockton, Magic, and the Big O in my top three in no particular order because I feel like it is widely dependent on how an individual is appraising such a list.

    After that... I feel like Chris Paul comes next (yes, I know.. no rings) and then Nash and Kidd (in whatever order you want to put them) follow by Zeke and Payton (in whatever order you want to put them).

    Curry is a question mark to me. What position does he play? Under Mark Jackson, he was a point guard, and one of the best, but under Kerr, it seems like every player on the court is responcible for setting up teammates. He's essentially got 4 poitn guards on the floor at all times, or at least three. Green, KD, and Curry are all setting up teammates throught he system, but everybody is moving the ball around, and everybody is moving without the ball. When playing off the ball, Curry is one of the best scoring SG ever. When playing with the ball, he's a great scoring PG, or passing PG.

    Curry certainly has the skill set and PG designation to qualify for this list, but the traditional positions simply do not apply to the GSW roster, so it is hard to categorize anybody beyond 'front court' and 'wing' and 'backcourt', and even those three categories are fluid (Curry, Klay, KD and Green all play 'wings', while Klay and Curry often play 'backcourt', and KD plays frontcourt, wing, and backcourt, and Green play wing and front court.


    Curry deserves as high a place on the PG list as Chris Paul at least, and likely as high as Stockton, and by the end of his career, will be there with Magic. But his skill set and the system he is in transcend conventional positions, so it seems unfair to pideonhold him to 'point guard'.

    But that said... if I made a top five and inlcude him, they would include (in no particular order), Stockton, Magis, Curry, Chris Paul and the Big O.

    Chris Paul may not see the same sucess that Zeke saw, but he IS the better player, and had he played when Zeke played, he would have been considered clearly better. But in this generation of players, his size makes it harder for him to really excel in a 7-game series against a bigger player like Curry, who would have totally abused and embarassed Zeke were Zeke playing today and Zeke and Paul to have exchange eras, while Paul would have made the Pistons teams even more dominante with his high efficiency scoring and lower assist-to-turnover ratio and defense.



    So yeah... in any order:
    Stockton
    Magic
    O
    CP3
    Curry
    I would agree with most of this. Especially that top-5, and it changes depending on whether you're valuing peak, prime, or consistency/longevity, etc more. There's also a lot of era/rule consideration as well. Lists are always weird in that sense. That's why tiers are more reasonable, and this is the top tier as I see it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Argument for Paul over Stockton?
    His Peak crushes Stocktonís.

  11. #41
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    Most dominant players Iíve seen in my lifetime. Jordan, Shaq, Lebron, Curry.

    I canít ignore Curryís Shaq-like dominance.

    Curry
    Magic
    Paul
    Oscar
    Not sure

  12. #42
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    Top 5 PG All-Time: GO!

    1- Magic
    2- Oscar
    3- Stockton (Maybe CP3 once his career is over)
    4- CP3
    5- Payton

    Curry will definitely be a top 3 PG but not yet.

    "Killer Instinct"

  13. #43
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    Someone mentioned penny earlier, what a tragedy. Dude was a 6í7 pg who could legit back players down in the post, filthy skill set. Woulda loved to see him have a full career

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    In no order, Magic/Oscar/Curry/Paul/Stockon.
    You can't get a better list than that.
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Most dominant players Iíve seen in my lifetime. Jordan, Shaq, Lebron, Curry.

    I canít ignore Curryís Shaq-like dominance.

    Curry
    Magic
    Paul
    Oscar
    Not sure
    Curry legit got shaq like dominance! lmao

    Hes the exact oppsite of Shaq. He draws defenders away from the basket the way Shaq drew them in. At an absurd rate

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