Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 89
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Windsor, Earth's Rectum (as reported by Stephen Colbert).
    Posts
    11,020
    Quote Originally Posted by basch152 View Post
    I hate these exaggerations.

    Tyson Chandler was still a defensive force and was damn near ad important to that team as Dirk since he had to cover his weakness on the defensive side.

    Jason Terry and Shawn Marion were both still very solid players.

    Jason Kidd wasn't a great scorer but he was still a very good all around player.

    and jj barea was pretty solid.

    Dirk didn't single handedly will ****.
    Nobody ever single-handely wins anything in a team sport, though people say this as a hyperbolic figure of speach to imply some people played a more important role than others.

    Dirk did play a significant role in that run, but I agree with you. A lot of people mischaracterize that.

    For years, the one thing Dirk was missing was a strong rebounding defensive partner. A guy like Ben Wallace or Mutumbo. He got Chandler, finally and he made the most of it.

    It helped A LOT to have a vet liek Jason Kidd (who though not a great scorer throughout his career, had become a reliable 3-pt shooter by that time) and a Vinnie-Johnson esque Jason Terry sparking the offense. And Marion handling some wing defence and providing some spacing on offense and boards as well.

    This was essentially like AI's 2001 team: some role players brought in to complement the star player. The only difference being that the role players were better, and the star player could... you know... shoot.

    But throughout the playoffs, Dirk 'only' posted a shade under 28 a game. I say 'only' because we've seen guys lead a team to a title averaging more point than that (to name a few: Jordan X6, Kobe X2, Steph X1 [actually 2, but the other time was with KD posting 28 a game as well], and LBJ X1)

    OF course, these guys have other franchise calibre players on their team, which Dirk did not, but it's not like Dirk had nothing. He had some quality veteran leaders on that team. Terry was dropping over .400 from 3pt-land, and Peja and Stevenson, in limited minutes of the bench, were shooting nearly as well. And Kidd was shooting .374 from down town. Chandler, Marion, and Kidd all provided stellar D, which Dirk desperately needed as that was a hole in his game and in many of the teams he'd played with in the past.

    That Dallas team reminded my a lot of the 04 Pistons, where there was a real team effort, and everybody had a role, and each role was important. The difference being was that the Dallas team happened to have a dominante offensive player who handled a lot of the offensive load.

    I totally give props to Dirk. That was an amazing run. Amazing. One of the best ever. But it was not a 'single-handed' performance.
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Windsor, Earth's Rectum (as reported by Stephen Colbert).
    Posts
    11,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Also the fact that Cuban and Donnie kept the Mavs in disarray didnít help. I believe Dirk could have had about 3 more prime playing years if they had just put a real team around him.
    I respect the efforts that Cuban made, because unlike some owners (take Sterling for example), he was just owning a team to make money: he wanted to win.

    But he doesn't have the best basketball mind, nor does he put the best basketball minds around him. It's not bad, mind you, just not great.

    He was constantly chasing after a center, which is what Dirk really needed, but in the process, he let Nash and Finley go. Can you imagine if he had implemented 'Antoni's offense in Dallas before letting Nash go?

    Instead, he wanted to create cap space to bring in a C. He bought out Finley's contract for the same reason. That Nash/Finley/Dirk core was something special, and Cuban failed to see that.

    Instead of Nash/Dirk/Finley, they get Eric Dampier.

    No... in Cuban's defence, they made it to the finals the year after they let Finley go... but when you look back and see that in back-to-back year he let Nash and Finley go for nothing... it's easy to see how this roster struggled to really build a consistent contender like SAS.

    And then when the Mavs finally got a C (Chandler) that helped them win an NBA title, THEY LET HIM GO!!! Why? To chase after Howard.

    SMH.
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    14,010
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    I respect the efforts that Cuban made, because unlike some owners (take Sterling for example), he was just owning a team to make money: he wanted to win.

    But he doesn't have the best basketball mind, nor does he put the best basketball minds around him. It's not bad, mind you, just not great.

    He was constantly chasing after a center, which is what Dirk really needed, but in the process, he let Nash and Finley go. Can you imagine if he had implemented 'Antoni's offense in Dallas before letting Nash go?

    Instead, he wanted to create cap space to bring in a C. He bought out Finley's contract for the same reason. That Nash/Finley/Dirk core was something special, and Cuban failed to see that.

    Instead of Nash/Dirk/Finley, they get Eric Dampier.

    No... in Cuban's defence, they made it to the finals the year after they let Finley go... but when you look back and see that in back-to-back year he let Nash and Finley go for nothing... it's easy to see how this roster struggled to really build a consistent contender like SAS.

    And then when the Mavs finally got a C (Chandler) that helped them win an NBA title, THEY LET HIM GO!!! Why? To chase after Howard.

    SMH.
    Mavs have had a terrible time recruiting players despite being a wonderful organization in a nice area. Something isn't working with management. No reason Dirk should be their only superstar the past two decades.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,891
    Quote Originally Posted by basch152 View Post
    I hate these exaggerations.

    Tyson Chandler was still a defensive force and was damn near ad important to that team as Dirk since he had to cover his weakness on the defensive side.

    Jason Terry and Shawn Marion were both still very solid players.

    Jason Kidd wasn't a great scorer but he was still a very good all around player.

    and jj barea was pretty solid.

    Dirk didn't single handedly will ****.
    When you consider Dirk was the ONLY all star on that team and wasnít even a 1st team all star itís pretty impressive that he led his team to the title. Who was the last team to win a title with only 1 2nd team all star?

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,891
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    I respect the efforts that Cuban made, because unlike some owners (take Sterling for example), he was just owning a team to make money: he wanted to win.

    But he doesn't have the best basketball mind, nor does he put the best basketball minds around him. It's not bad, mind you, just not great.

    He was constantly chasing after a center, which is what Dirk really needed, but in the process, he let Nash and Finley go. Can you imagine if he had implemented 'Antoni's offense in Dallas before letting Nash go?

    Instead, he wanted to create cap space to bring in a C. He bought out Finley's contract for the same reason. That Nash/Finley/Dirk core was something special, and Cuban failed to see that.

    Instead of Nash/Dirk/Finley, they get Eric Dampier.

    No... in Cuban's defence, they made it to the finals the year after they let Finley go... but when you look back and see that in back-to-back year he let Nash and Finley go for nothing... it's easy to see how this roster struggled to really build a consistent contender like SAS.

    And then when the Mavs finally got a C (Chandler) that helped them win an NBA title, THEY LET HIM GO!!! Why? To chase after Howard.

    SMH.
    Finley was actually amnestied. It would have been awesome to have him win a title with the Mavs but his level of play was no longer matching his pay.

    I do give Cuban credit for trying to put a team around Dirk but he also gets the blame for failing miserably. Heís the reason they passed on the Greek Freak. If he had stuck to drafting players instead of just using his draft picks as trade commodities they would have been much more successful in my opinion.

    As for DíAntoni and his system being implemented in Dallas before Nash left, it would have been fun to watch but I doubt they would have ever won a title. For whatever reason (lack of defense) his system does not have ultimate success in the playoffs.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,097
    Quote Originally Posted by WaDe03 View Post
    They were forgot about when Wade LeBron and Kobe took over the league honestly.
    Ironic, because it was both Dirk and Duncan who spanked "the HEAT". Dirk being the first and was actually the best basketball player on the planet for 2 months in 2011, and Duncan still playing at an elite level while clearly not in his prime. I sort of give Duncan and Kawhi credit for breaking up "the HEAT".
    Last edited by Redrum187; 01-09-2018 at 05:41 PM.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  7. #22
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,097
    I think the drop off for Dirk was after he won his championship. He gave it all he had and has nothing of significance to prove. He was (still is) a serviceable player, but I would say that was when his prime ended.

    Duncan is a little difficult to address. His per 36 stayed pretty much the same... he was an elite player even when out of his prime. I have to think more on this.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,097
    Quote Originally Posted by basch152 View Post
    I hate these exaggerations.

    Tyson Chandler was still a defensive force and was damn near ad important to that team as Dirk since he had to cover his weakness on the defensive side.

    Jason Terry and Shawn Marion were both still very solid players.

    Jason Kidd wasn't a great scorer but he was still a very good all around player.

    and jj barea was pretty solid.

    Dirk didn't single handedly will ****.
    Funny... because the exaggeration I see is how "bad" Dirk was defensively. No matter the eye-test, the RPM (the most accurate advanced measurement for defense, defensive stats suck), and countless reports saying how Dirk has developed into an above-average defender, some ignorant people still think Dirk was a negative on that end of the court. Oh well...

    Having said that, for Round 1, 2, and WCF, it's not an exaggeration to say that Dirk almost single-handedly carried the Mavericks. Thank God that Terry was left open a lot in the Finals from all the attention Dirk was getting. Tyson Chandler was solid throughout and that is why I agree with the person who said "almost" single-handedly carried the Mavericks to a championship.

    Role Players
    Tyson Chandler - protect the rim
    Terry - Dirk's #2, no disrespect to Terry but who has won a ship with someone of Terry's caliber?
    Marion - guarded the best wing
    Kidd - floor general and would also guard the best SG/SF
    Barea - sparkplug off the bench
    Peja - 3 point sniper
    Caron Butler - injured, didn't even play
    Last edited by Redrum187; 01-09-2018 at 05:51 PM.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    14,010
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    When you consider Dirk was the ONLY all star on that team and wasnít even a 1st team all star itís pretty impressive that he led his team to the title. Who was the last team to win a title with only 1 2nd team all star?
    JET wasn't an all-star but he played like an all-star for sure. Let's not forget how great he was.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    10,161
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    Ironic, because it was both Dirk and Duncan who spanked "the HEAT". Dirk being the first and was actually the best basketball player on the planet for 2 months in 2011, and Duncan still playing at an elite level while clearly not in his prime. I sort of give Duncan and Kawhi credit for breaking up "the HEAT".
    Wade was the best player in the 2011 NBA finals.
    https://s26.postimg.org/a20wgmf49/20969116_474690526257462_6125363099198291968_n.jpg

    Looks good in that wine and gold, CavsNation were coming!!!!

  11. #26
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,097
    Quote Originally Posted by WaDe03 View Post
    Wade was the best player in the 2011 NBA finals.
    He wasn't good enough to help "the HEAT" beat the Mavericks or slow down Terry from dropping 3's... It's safe to say, Dirk was the best player on the planet during a 2 month stretch.

    Go ahead, blame LeBron for "choking" (he put up good numbers... just not the typical LeBron numbers we take for granted). LeBron did a lot of carrying because Wade DIDN'T show up like the typical Wade prior to the Finals. If only "the HEAT" had the same refs (one in particular who spent time in jail) in 2006... :P
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    14,010
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    He wasn't good enough to help "the HEAT" beat the Mavericks or slow down Terry from dropping 3's... It's safe to say, Dirk was the best player on the planet during a 2 month stretch.

    Go ahead, blame LeBron for "choking" (he put up good numbers... just not the typical LeBron numbers we take for granted). LeBron did a lot of carrying because Wade DIDN'T show up like the typical Wade prior to the Finals. If only "the HEAT" had the same refs (one in particular who spent time in jail) in 2006... :P
    Nah, LeBron choked. That's the only reason Mavs won. I would say otherwise because it would make it better for LeBron but he hesistated on every shot, refused to score, didn't look like he wanted to play, and didn't make an effort the way he did vs Bulls/Celtics. Not really sure what there is to debate. Dirk wasn't all that great in that Finals. If LeBron would have played the way he did vs Bulls or Celtics, he would be a 4x Champion. It's the only blemish in his career as far as I am concerned. I mean, when you can't even post up or take advantage of a smaller defender in Terry/J.J. Barea and you are LeBron's size, then you are choking.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,097
    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    Nah, LeBron choked. That's the only reason Mavs won. I would say otherwise because it would make it better for LeBron but he hesistated on every shot, refused to score, didn't look like he wanted to play, and didn't make an effort the way he did vs Bulls/Celtics. Not really sure what there is to debate. Dirk wasn't all that great in that Finals. If LeBron would have played the way he did vs Bulls or Celtics, he would be a 4x Champion. It's the only blemish in his career as far as I am concerned. I mean, when you can't even post up or take advantage of a smaller defender in Terry/J.J. Barea and you are LeBron's size, then you are choking.
    There's plenty to legitimate debate honestly. LeBron carried a huge load prior to the Finals. Thankfully, Wade showed up in the Finals but it wasn't enough. Not to mention, Shawn Marion (arguably the greatest wing defender to NEVER be on an All-Defensive team) and Jason Kidd (who has been on 9 All Defensive teams) made LeBron fatigue and produce less than what he was accustom to. WHile they were out of prime and didn't produce much offensively, their defense was always there.

    The Mavericks were everything the Heat weren't... a bunch of starving out-of-prime role players who still had something left in the tank (Mavericks) against a spoiled and talented trio of superstars wanting an easier route to championships... Dirk, Kidd, Marion, and Peja all came close to achieving the ultimate goal (to win an NBA championship) but came up short. It was the perfect storm to render LeBron less than his typical self. He didn't choke... the Mavericks just took it. Another important factor not many give credit to is Carlisle out-coaching Spo. They had a specific defensive game plan and executed it on LeBron/Miami. They speak about it in their 2011 Champion documentary.

    It's sort of like when people say Curry "choked" against the Cavs... While Curry didn't produce what we expected him to, his numbers were pretty damn good... It's not all Curry's fault, though, yes, he does deserve some blame as does LeBron.
    Last edited by Redrum187; 01-09-2018 at 10:41 PM.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    41,325
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    There's plenty to legitimate debate honestly. LeBron carried a huge load prior to the Finals. Thankfully, Wade showed up in the Finals but it wasn't enough. Not to mention, Shawn Marion (arguably the greatest wing defender to NEVER be on an All-Defensive team) and Jason Kidd (who has been on 9 All Defensive teams) made LeBron fatigue and produce less than what he was accustom to. WHile they were out of prime and didn't produce much offensively, their defense was always there.

    The Mavericks were everything the Heat weren't... a bunch of starving out-of-prime role players who still had something left in the tank (Mavericks) against a spoiled and talented trio of superstars wanting an easier route to championships... Dirk, Kidd, Marion, and Peja all came close to achieving the ultimate goal (to win an NBA championship) but came up short. It was the perfect storm to render LeBron less than his typical self. He didn't choke... the Mavericks just took it. Another important factor not many give credit to is Carlisle out-coaching Spo. They had a specific defensive game plan and executed it on LeBron/Miami. They speak about it in their 2011 Champion documentary.

    It's sort of like when people say Curry "choked" against the Cavs... While Curry didn't produce what we expected him to, his numbers were pretty damn good... It's not all Curry's fault, though, yes, he does deserve some blame as does LeBron.
    Agreed. I remember looking up his mpg and seeing that very few players, if any (modern era) have won titles. Bron had a decent start to those finals and was clamping down on Jet at first (self admitted ).

    To simplify it to mere choking ignores several real factors and tbh is a spit to face of Mitchell and cos zone scheme. Bron played bad but the defense was also elite. Heat actually played the Mavs better than most that year, might've won had wade not gotten hurt imo. Turns out in a 5v5 affair, having complete zeroes at the 1 and 5 is not championship material

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    10,161
    Look at LeBrons 4th quarter numbers and tell me again he didn't choke lmao! What you did in the previous rounds doesn't matter if you don't get it done in the end. I don't see how what he did in previous rounds is an excuse.
    https://s26.postimg.org/a20wgmf49/20969116_474690526257462_6125363099198291968_n.jpg

    Looks good in that wine and gold, CavsNation were coming!!!!

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •