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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    sam morin fell out of the convo because he is not good at hockey (maybe yet ... but i think he is just not good at hockey) ... he was a bad draft pick

    also, morin is not ready for the NHL ... his numbers in the AHL are not good either
    This remains to be seen. Chara took a couple more years before he started in the NHL. I could see Morin being an effective 4/5 dman at worst. Need to give him until 2020 to decide this. If we missed on him, we have hit on Sanheim (at worst a serviceable 2nd pairing defenseman at a 17th pick if I'm not mistaken -- I think he becomes a number 1 guy in the NHL to be honest...). Myers and Friedman are looking like steals. Provy was a dead on pick. Ghost we killed it... We are okay at D in my opinion.

    In net, we are solid and will be ready for takeoff by 2019-2020 season with Hart. Lyon could be a our backup at the end of this season/start of next season if trade one of Elliot or Neuvy (or if Neuvy is injured again at some point).

    I say we just trade Simmonds for Tavares and solve all of our problems (pending Tavares signing long term) and throw in the Blues pick this year

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    sam morin fell out of the convo because he is not good at hockey (maybe yet ... but i think he is just not good at hockey) ... he was a bad draft pick

    also, morin is not ready for the NHL ... his numbers in the AHL are not good either
    Sam Morin is fine -- he was drafted as a raw talent with an intriguing combination of size, strength, skating ability and skill. He's a massive kid -- 6'7", 227 lbs -- and he's a defenseman. They take time to develop.

    This year, he's got 6 points in 12 games (0.50 ppts percentage); Myers has 9 points in 20 games (0.45 ppts percentage). Morin has been banged up, but he's been pretty solid. He's solid positionally in the defensive end, his zone exit passes are improving and he's starting to contribute offensively with that howitzer of a shot. These are all good things.

    I didn't really expect Morin to be an impact NHL player until he was 24 or 25. I still don't. But at worst, I think he's another Erik Gudbranson; at his absolute best, he's a Chara-lite. Even if the probabilities there are 70% Gudbranson, 10% Chara-lite & 20% in-between, I'm holding onto him unless I get an incredibly attractive offer.

  3. #168
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    sam morin fell out of the convo because he is not good at hockey (maybe yet ... but i think he is just not good at hockey) ... he was a bad draft pick

    also, morin is not ready for the NHL ... his numbers in the AHL are not good either
    what numbers are you looking at? morin's not gonna score 40 points in a season like ghost or sanheim, so his development isn't going to show up like that. if you're evaluating him by another standard, i'd love to hear about it.


    morin is in the same position as braydon coburn when we got him from ATL. he needs consistent playing time in the NHL to show what he can do.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Sam Morin is fine -- he was drafted as a raw talent with an intriguing combination of size, strength, skating ability and skill. He's a massive kid -- 6'7", 227 lbs -- and he's a defenseman. They take time to develop.

    This year, he's got 6 points in 12 games (0.50 ppts percentage); Myers has 9 points in 20 games (0.45 ppts percentage). Morin has been banged up, but he's been pretty solid. He's solid positionally in the defensive end, his zone exit passes are improving and he's starting to contribute offensively with that howitzer of a shot. These are all good things.

    I didn't really expect Morin to be an impact NHL player until he was 24 or 25. I still don't. But at worst, I think he's another Erik Gudbranson; at his absolute best, he's a Chara-lite. Even if the probabilities there are 70% Gudbranson, 10% Chara-lite & 20% in-between, I'm holding onto him unless I get an incredibly attractive offer.
    His advanced stats are awful ... did you check those out?

  5. #170
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  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatch View Post
    Simmonds is in a complicated stage to really get a huge haul isn't he? He's got 1 year remaining on a contract and he's gonna be 30. The only way that works out to get a big return is that the team he gets traded to locks him in to a long term deal. That kinda limits the leverage a little doesn't it? No one is unloading the prospect truck for a one year rental. At his age the number of teams willing to lock him into a long term high dollar deal would be a lot less than if he was 26 or 27. So I don't necessarily see a trade as a homer for us here.
    Not really -- he's 2.5 years older than Duchene. He's not a half-year rental and his play is not likely to deteriorate over the remaining term on his deal. Speaking of his deal, he has an incredibly cap-friendly contract (how many 30-goal scorers are making less than $4M), which is a boon to any elite team trying to add firepower while remaining under the cap.

    No one is unloading the prospect truck for a half-season rental; I have a feeling that lots of teams would be willing to give up a lot more for a year-and-a-half of Wayne Simmonds. If you're Chicago, the window is 2-3 more years; adding Wayne Simmonds to Toews, Kane, Sadd, Anisimov, Keith, Seabrook, etc. is a pretty dangerous prospect.

    Could you imagine the NSH PP if they added Simmonds? Simmonds - Johansson - Forsberg - Subban - Josi? Talk about making your already stud defensemen even more dangerous...

    There's also the (small) fact that Simmonds is better than Duchene at hockey.

    COL ended up with:
    Samuel Girard (D), NSH 2016 second-round pick
    Vladislav Kamenev (F), NSH 2014 second-round pick
    Shane Bowers (F), OTT 2017 first-round pick
    2018 first-round pick from Ottawa
    2018 second-round pick from Nashville
    2019 third-round pick from Ottawa
    Goaltender Andrew Hammond

    That's a pretty solid haul. And while there are clear differences between Simmonds and Duchene, the important things to remember:

    (1) It's not a one-year rental; it's a two-season rental
    (2) Simmonds is signed for less than $4M per season through the end of next season
    (3) Simmonds has more goals, assists, and points than Duchene over the past 4 seasons
    (4) Simmonds has all of the intangibles that "hockey guys" love; Duchene...not so much
    (5) Simmonds has proven leadership qualities; Duchene quit on his team

  7. #172
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    that's pretty awesome, thanks.

    some things that stand out:
    1: lindblom, goonbourn and NAK are drawing a lot of penalties
    2: vorobyev is not doing great on faceoffs. that's disappointing
    3: if morin has only taken 11 shots on goal, that's very disappointing. one of the keys to his development is turning his cannon of a slapshot into an offensive threat.
    4: myers doesn't stand out in any significant way.
    5: friedman looks better than expected. he's drawing penalties and putting a lot of shots on net

    do you know if those stats are available for last season, too?

    and this is probably greedy, but i'd love to see ice time, zone start stats, and PK/PP stats.
    Last edited by steagles; 01-10-2018 at 03:34 PM.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    His advanced stats are awful ... did you check those out?
    This seems like a complete exaggeration, whether it's your personal confirmation bias, or just an unconnected hyperbole.


    You say awful? And show me a positive CF% player. That's not something that can be the same.

    I wish this chart had a few more details, like scoring chances, high danger scoring chances, etc.

    But to say awful is a complete hyperbole imo.

  9. #174
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    Also, how are Voracek & Ghost not in the AS game?

    Ghost is the #1 scoring defenseman in the East & Voracek leads the league in assists and is 4th in scoring.

    WTF.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    This seems like a complete exaggeration, whether it's your personal confirmation bias, or just an unconnected hyperbole.


    You say awful? And show me a positive CF% player. That's not something that can be the same.

    I wish this chart had a few more details, like scoring chances, high danger scoring chances, etc.

    But to say awful is a complete hyperbole imo.
    Ok ... for the 11th overall pick in the 2013 draft, 22/23 year old, has a neg CFRel, ... and besides that which stats say he is NHL ready and not awful.

    Compared to the team, sure, he is doing OK but is next year when he is 23/24 the year it changes?!

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Also, how are Voracek & Ghost not in the AS game?

    Ghost is the #1 scoring defenseman in the East & Voracek leads the league in assists and is 4th in scoring.

    WTF.
    well only one/two from each team. ghost should have been there for sure tho. either voracek or giroux should go. Letang should not be there at all.

  12. #177
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    Also, CHI gets Duclair for pennies. Watch him go put up 20 goals.

    Damnit Hextall.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    I missed a few things in that comment. But the premise is sound.

    Patrick has more raw talent as a prospect than couturier. There's also a lot of similarities in the skill set. Both were highly regarded as defensive studs, high iq players. Both knocked for skating (Patrick's is a better skater than 19 year old Couts). Patrick also has a better wrist shot imo. And of course Couts has proven to be one of the smartest hockey players in the league.

    I'm couts second year he had 15 pts in 46 games. Patrick has 8 pts in 30. Coming off major surgery with a concussion in the middle of those games. Guy still has bonafide 1C potential.

    And I stick to my point, he has more raw talent/skills than Couts had at that age. The only part he's lacking in is specifically IQ, which he's still above average in the NHL imo.


    Remember, I've been the biggest Couts supporter on this forum his entire career.
    Couturier was coming off a season in which he had mono, so it's not like he didn't have his own complications his draft year. That said, Couturier was superior defensively then, now, and always will be. There's no comparison. Could Patrick be a marginally better offensive player? Sure, but that doesn't make up the gap defensively when Couturier has pretty much been an elite defensive forward in the NHL from day 1.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Also, CHI gets Duclair for pennies. Watch him go put up 20 goals.

    Damnit Hextall.
    Duclair sucks. I mean the guy has had difficulty finding regular playing time on the worst team in the nhl.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    We could trade him before the draft but teams do tend to overpay at deadlines.

    I love simmonds and would hate to see him go but I think its the best option. I would definitely want a nhl ready player/or a player already in the nhl thats young.

    I see these teams as the ones that would love to add him at the deadline:

    anaheim. hed be a great fit with getzlaf. Rackell can move to lw but they dont trade many of their young players. they have silfverberg, steel, jones, terry, mahura,

    Calgary seems like a great fit with monahan/gaudreau. They have some pieces in dube, fox, valimaki, andersson
    edmonton

    kings-hed help them really become contenders again (like the richie and carts trade, add to whats working). Clauge, vilardi

    sens-white brown, formenten

    blues- kyrou, kostin, thomas, thompson, fabbri, dunn, barbashev

    wild-ek, greenway, kunin, coyle, nino n.

    edmonton-puljujarvi, yamamoto, bear, jones


    any1 in the metro is a no go. Doubt the yotes, sabres, avs, hawks (Can't afford him), wings, mtl, preds, stars, jets, sharks, knights would want him as most are rebuilding or have a logjam at rw. Toronto won't give up marner or nylander. Might be missing some teams but doing this on the fly. Teams like detroit, panthers, knights, stars maybe, sharks will probably ask for him in summer. I would go for puljujarvi, ek/greenway/kunin/coyle/nino, or kyrou/fabbri with some picks
    Kings don't have anything I want.

    Sens aren't buying. They are at the bottom of the standings and will be selling.

    Blues: Kostin, Thompson, and Fabbri. I'd need all 3.

    Wild: Now here's some serious potential. Ek, Kunin, and Greenway? Oh baby.

    Edmonton: again, bottom of standings they won't be buying.

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