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  1. #46
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    Nov 2004
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    97,339
    The Broncos were moving on from Siemian the moment they benched him. Elway never wanted Siemian to start. Fact.

    If Elway can pull some Ty Sambrailo magic and get a 5th or better for him. I'll take it.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    316
    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Klis said the Broncos are going to try and move Siemian. If Klis says it, you know it's true because Klis has an unhealthy love of Siemian and his articles and tweets have basically become Broncos PR.
    Trevor has absolutely zero trade value. We'd be lucky if we got a undrafted draft pick for Trevor......

  3. #48
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    Nov 2004
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    97,339
    So the broncos picked up a few pieces for a futures contract. One is DeShawn Williams.

    6'1 DT/NT'ish out of clemson. A bit stubby but I love his get off and already has those angry hands. Is quite quick in short space and can move laterally but is not exactly dynamic there.

    From some snooping around...it sounds like Bengals fans have no quarrels with him....just a victim of a lack of an opportunity.

    When I see him...I see a player that is ideal for a one gapping scheme and while his profile says he's lacking in the pass rushing department...I can see development there.

    Essentially, this is a prime prospect for a guy like Kollar to mold. He doesn't have long arms but he has a natural leverage advantage, has angry hands, good short area quickness ,and his get off is quite good.

    We saw what he could do with Shelby harris in one year. Just keep an eye on him...if the broncos decide to stay in house for their d-line options.

  4. #49
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    Jun 2007
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    Ha for what it's worth Von won defensive MVP of the pro bowl for his strip sack to end the game!

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  5. #50
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    Jun 2007
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    8,319
    Alright it's time to put the "cousins is average or even above average" to the test. I believe it's arguable to put him at 8-9-10 in the league and firmly put him at 12th best qb in the league and if you give him an offensive cast that 5 outta top 10 QBs have and he could be a top 8 QB

    Let's talk about his personnel (weapons at RB, TE, WR) since 2015(first year as a full time starter)

    2015- RBs: Alfred Morris, Chris Thompson, Matt Jones.

    Wrs: Pierre Garcon, Desean Jackson, Jamison Crowder.

    TE: Jordan Reed

    Leading rusher was Morris with 751 yards and a TD

    Leading WR was Garcon with 777yards 6 TDs

    TE: Jordan Reed with 952 yards and 11 TDs

    2016- RBs: Robert Kelly, Chris Thompson, Matt Jones

    WRs: Pierre Garcon, Jamison Crowder, Desean Jackson, Ryan Grant

    TEs: Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed

    Leaders: Robert Kelly 704 yds/6 TDs

    Garcon 1041 yds/3 TDs DJax 1005 yds/ 4 TDs Crowder 847 yds/ 7 TDs

    TEs combine for 1269 yds/ 8 TDs

    2017- RBs: Robert Kelly, Samaje Perine, Chris Thompson

    WRs: Jamison Crowder, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson,

    TEs: Jordan Reed, Vernon Davis, Niles Paul

    Leaders: Samjae Perine 603 yds/1 TD

    Jamison Crowder 789 yds/ 3Tds

    Vernon Davis 648 yds/ 3 TDs

    This cast of weapons has been very average to below average these last 3 years, I would even say Jordan Reed is avg because of how many games he has missed in this 3 year span. The best year of his Wrs were still ranked 18th & 24th(below avg). However TE production all 3 years is avg to above avg.

    The Redskins have had an over hyped o line these 3 years due prolly to Trent Williams being a stud. 2015- PFF rank 25th

    2016- 7th

    2017- can't find pff final rankings but football outsiders has their o line ranked 21st in run block and 24th in pass protection.

    Overall the offensive personnel around cousins the last 3 years have been a cummulative well below avg based on these stats and their rankings.

    In the mean time Cousins stats for all 3 years are as follows. Yds/Tds/INTs/Cmpltn%/QBR rank

    2015: 4166/29/11/69%/6th

    2016: 4917/25/12/67%/6th

    2017: 4093/27/13/64%/16th

    I chose QBR because it's an efficiency stat. Takes into account every play the QB is in on and even includes sacks, fumbles, penalties, etc.

    Not sure the pff rankings and criteria for grading QBs. Pff wasn't very kind in grading cousins tho and gave him I believe 16, 16, 20, ranked qb over the last 3 years. As for regular stats and DVOA and QBR he consistently ranks in the top 10 for 2015 and 2016 and 2017 he drops to around 16(avg)

    2017 was his worse year as a starter, he also had his worse supporting cast and and very beat up oline with injuries all over the line, Rob Kelly and Chris Thompson also injured along with Jordan Reed again.

    That being said do I believe he should be paid more than the top 3 QBs? Hell no. From a stats stand point and looking at the offense around him do I think he has put up elite numbers with one of the worst supporting casts? Sure do. I would say maybe Rodgers/Rivers/Wilson/Stafford/Luck might have equal or worse support around them.

    Cousins has shown over these 3 years that he can put up elite numbers with a below avg cast around him. He is like other top 10 QBs in the league and needs help around him to elevate his game to being an elite QB. For sake of comparing the other 5qbs supporting cast here is the other 5 top QBs in no order Brees/Brady/Ryan/Newton/Rothlisberger.

    Question is can the Broncos have a top 15 Oline to go with Elite weapons in Thomas and Sanders(could potentially be gone) and then a top 10 stable of backs(not as far off as you think going off 2017 run game production). If they can and with the offense musgrave could install for cousins. He would be a top 8QB and have a shot at winning the division and going to the playoffs (with an *easy schedule compared to last 5 years)

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    15,800
    Quote Originally Posted by tmacsc2 View Post
    Alright it's time to put the "cousins is average or even above average" to the test. I believe it's arguable to put him at 8-9-10 in the league and firmly put him at 12th best qb in the league and if you give him an offensive cast that 5 outta top 10 QBs have and he could be a top 8 QB

    Let's talk about his personnel (weapons at RB, TE, WR) since 2015(first year as a full time starter)

    2015- RBs: Alfred Morris, Chris Thompson, Matt Jones.

    Wrs: Pierre Garcon, Desean Jackson, Jamison Crowder.

    TE: Jordan Reed

    Leading rusher was Morris with 751 yards and a TD

    Leading WR was Garcon with 777yards 6 TDs

    TE: Jordan Reed with 952 yards and 11 TDs

    2016- RBs: Robert Kelly, Chris Thompson, Matt Jones

    WRs: Pierre Garcon, Jamison Crowder, Desean Jackson, Ryan Grant

    TEs: Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed

    Leaders: Robert Kelly 704 yds/6 TDs

    Garcon 1041 yds/3 TDs DJax 1005 yds/ 4 TDs Crowder 847 yds/ 7 TDs

    TEs combine for 1269 yds/ 8 TDs

    2017- RBs: Robert Kelly, Samaje Perine, Chris Thompson

    WRs: Jamison Crowder, Terrelle Pryor, Josh Doctson,

    TEs: Jordan Reed, Vernon Davis, Niles Paul

    Leaders: Samjae Perine 603 yds/1 TD

    Jamison Crowder 789 yds/ 3Tds

    Vernon Davis 648 yds/ 3 TDs

    This cast of weapons has been very average to below average these last 3 years, I would even say Jordan Reed is avg because of how many games he has missed in this 3 year span. The best year of his Wrs were still ranked 18th & 24th(below avg). However TE production all 3 years is avg to above avg.

    The Redskins have had an over hyped o line these 3 years due prolly to Trent Williams being a stud. 2015- PFF rank 25th

    2016- 7th

    2017- can't find pff final rankings but football outsiders has their o line ranked 21st in run block and 24th in pass protection.

    Overall the offensive personnel around cousins the last 3 years have been a cummulative well below avg based on these stats and their rankings.

    In the mean time Cousins stats for all 3 years are as follows. Yds/Tds/INTs/Cmpltn%/QBR rank

    2015: 4166/29/11/69%/6th

    2016: 4917/25/12/67%/6th

    2017: 4093/27/13/64%/16th

    I chose QBR because it's an efficiency stat. Takes into account every play the QB is in on and even includes sacks, fumbles, penalties, etc.

    Not sure the pff rankings and criteria for grading QBs. Pff wasn't very kind in grading cousins tho and gave him I believe 16, 16, 20, ranked qb over the last 3 years. As for regular stats and DVOA and QBR he consistently ranks in the top 10 for 2015 and 2016 and 2017 he drops to around 16(avg)

    2017 was his worse year as a starter, he also had his worse supporting cast and and very beat up oline with injuries all over the line, Rob Kelly and Chris Thompson also injured along with Jordan Reed again.

    That being said do I believe he should be paid more than the top 3 QBs? Hell no. From a stats stand point and looking at the offense around him do I think he has put up elite numbers with one of the worst supporting casts? Sure do. I would say maybe Rodgers/Rivers/Wilson/Stafford/Luck might have equal or worse support around them.

    Cousins has shown over these 3 years that he can put up elite numbers with a below avg cast around him. He is like other top 10 QBs in the league and needs help around him to elevate his game to being an elite QB. For sake of comparing the other 5qbs supporting cast here is the other 5 top QBs in no order Brees/Brady/Ryan/Newton/Rothlisberger.

    Question is can the Broncos have a top 15 Oline to go with Elite weapons in Thomas and Sanders(could potentially be gone) and then a top 10 stable of backs(not as far off as you think going off 2017 run game production). If they can and with the offense musgrave could install for cousins. He would be a top 8QB and have a shot at winning the division and going to the playoffs (with an *easy schedule compared to last 5 years)

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I think he's a top 10 QB. That makes him above average.

    Rodgers
    Brady
    Brees

    Ben
    Wilson
    Stafford
    Wentz
    Cousins
    Luck
    Ryan


    Somewhere like that. Fwiw I think Cousins is a lot better than Carr.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    15,800
    YES!!! We don't have to worry about Alex Smith in Denver!

    Unfortunately this means that the Browns will definitely be taking a QB.

  8. #53
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    Nov 2004
    Posts
    97,339
    ^What this really means is it's essentially us and the Jets in the Cousins race.

    Does anyone think Cousins wants to play in New York? Against Brady twice a year?

    It's essentially us nabbing Cousins..

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    21,805
    the trade at least means that for sure the redskins are moving on and even something like a transition tag probably won't happen. Breaking down the teams that have the resources and need.

    1. Cleveland Browns 0-16 111 million
    The Browns can offer him some kind of absurb money, but does he really want to play on a 0-16 team?
    2. the New York Jets 5-11.
    79 million
    BK Broke down the Jets
    3. Vikings 13-3 56 million
    seems unlikely, but not impossible. would honestly be an insane fit.
    4. Jaguars 10-6 25+19
    the jags can just cut bortles I believe with no cap hit.
    5. Broncos 5-11 28 million
    6. Cardinals 25 million


    so the Vikings and Jaguars are terrifying because they can offer more money then us and a much better fit right now. Reports are that both are keeping their current guy, but that can change.

  10. #55
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    Jul 2010
    Posts
    21,805
    Forgot Buffalo as well

    Edit: with Bortles having surgery his contract is guaranteed. so you can probably rule out the Jags
    Last edited by dhopisthename; 01-31-2018 at 12:53 AM.

  11. #56
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    Jun 2007
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    8,319
    Minny has been said to focus on 2 of the 3 qb free agents..... I think they are out. Possibly just us in this cousins race. Unless jets really offer Kirk an absurd amount.

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  12. #57
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    Mar 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmacsc2 View Post
    Minny has been said to focus on 2 of the 3 qb free agents..... I think they are out. Possibly just us in this cousins race. Unless jets really offer Kirk an absurd amount.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Browns too. And Cardinals.

  13. #58
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    Jul 2010
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    21,805
    Quote Originally Posted by tmacsc2 View Post
    Minny has been said to focus on 2 of the 3 qb free agents..... I think they are out. Possibly just us in this cousins race. Unless jets really offer Kirk an absurd amount.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    the biggest issue for the vikings is that even though they have the money this year some key guys like barr and diggs need contracts. question is do they like their current qb's enough to not bother with cousins.

    I have no idea what cousins wants, but if its money then we have no chance.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    316
    All the other teams who wants cousin's can give him far more than Denver could imagine giving. And yes cousin's wants money..... He's 30 year's old and this will be his first and only long-term big contract.

  15. #60
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    Jul 2010
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    21,805
    Quote Originally Posted by TrustJoseph View Post
    All the other teams who wants cousin's can give him far more than Denver could imagine giving. And yes cousin's wants money..... He's 30 year's old and this will be his first and only long-term big contract.
    thats not true at all. we can offer more then 30 million, but I don't think the Broncos want to do that. I also think that Cousins probably doesn't want to go to a different dysfunctional front office like the one he just left.

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