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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I really think we missed out here by not adding Tyreke. I know Danny loves his picks but man, CLE is literally in shambles and just traded their whole team. TOR is better this year than last (and just kicked our ***). We had a chance to really get an impact player and get a leg up - but we didn't.
    DA tried to get an extra 1st but came up short...

    Could be possible that DA has already had talks with Monroe's camp about signing a deal after the season... If so Monroe was had for 5mil while to get Evans a 1st would be needed and no way of signing him also... Possibly DA's thinking is no way he's giving up their only 1st for a rental... Who knows...???

    Hopefully Mr. Morris can start stepping up to the plate with big games against big talent starting tonight...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  2. #227
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I really think we missed out here by not adding Tyreke. I know Danny loves his picks but man, CLE is literally in shambles and just traded their whole team. TOR is better this year than last (and just kicked our ***). We had a chance to really get an impact player and get a leg up - but we didn't.

    I love the Monroe add and he will certainly help, but could have added more.

    Not a fan of Joe Johnson at this point. He won't play. He washed up. I just don't see a real need to make a roster move for him.

    I still think we're in great shape. I'm hoping Danny's lack of urgency here means Hayward is coming back. Not holding my breath though.
    I think Danny realizes this team is not going to beat GSW in the championship if we even make it there, so there is no sense to trade away firsts for rental players. Memphis was asking for a first for Evans.
    "Talent sets the floor, character sets the ceiling." - Bill Belichick

  3. #228
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    I think I'd still rather have a 36 year old Johnson than Smart, lol. But seriously if they did get a guy like Johnson, Smart needs to realize his whole roll on the team is defense.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maccanman View Post
    I think I'd still rather have a 36 year old Johnson than Smart, lol. But seriously if they did get a guy like Johnson, Smart needs to realize his whole roll on the team is defense.
    Uhhh I hope this is sarcasm because Smart's impact on a game outweighs Johnsons 10 fold. In no way am I Smarts biggest cheerleader but he does impact the game.

    I'd like to see Smart with the starters more often so he doesn't feel the need to shoot as much. I think when he's playing with a second unit that struggles to score he tries to take over - and it generally fails. It's another reason why I thought Ainge really should have went after another bench scorer. But Johnson is not that guy - anymore.

    City of Champions

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox47 View Post
    I think Danny realizes this team is not going to beat GSW in the championship if we even make it there, so there is no sense to trade away firsts for rental players. Memphis was asking for a first for Evans.
    I think with Tyreke the C's could have made a GSW series competitive. Stevens has had great success against GSW with far worse teams. I think Stevens system really gives the GSW fits. Now obviously GSW would still be heavily favored and they by far have the top end talent. But the cohesion of this C's team, with top level defense and depth (add in Monroe, Hayward, Tyreke to what we've had) could certainly challenge GSW. Not that I'd ever root for it but there's also the "wild card" factor where a KD or Curry or Thompson gets hurt before the finals and is out or not 100% - then it really gets interesting. I think you have to try and at least give yourself a shot at it...Danny passed, can't say I'm surprised, but it would've been nice to go for it. I mean really, what type of impact player are we going to get in the last 1st with our 2018 BOS pick?

    City of Champions

  6. #231
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    DA tried to get an extra 1st but came up short...
    Yeah, it's just that 2018 BOS pick is going to be late 20's...What impact player are we getting there? Plenty of time to recoup a pick if needed before or at the draft. Late 1st are often sold for cash or stash players.

    Could be possible that DA has already had talks with Monroe's camp about signing a deal after the season... If so Monroe was had for 5mil while to get Evans a 1st would be needed and no way of signing him also...
    I doubt it, I'm sure both sides want to see how it works out. And as I've said, I'd be shocked if Monroe settles for the MLE. Unless things go about perfect the rest of the way.

    Possibly DA's thinking is no way he's giving up their only 1st for a rental... Who knows...???
    Certainly possible. I just think DA is incredibly stingy when it comes to those firsts. Granted, it's treated him well over the years for the most part. But it's been a while since he's been in a position like this.

    Hopefully Mr. Morris can start stepping up to the plate with big games against big talent starting tonight...
    He needs to, this is a big game.

    City of Champions

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox47 View Post
    I think Danny realizes this team is not going to beat GSW in the championship if we even make it there, so there is no sense to trade away firsts for rental players. Memphis was asking for a first for Evans.
    GSW is beatable, through the bench. Adding Monroe and Tyreke makes it pretty close, throw in Hayward, and we'd be even or ahead.

    Ask yourself how valuable a 29th or 30th pick would be? Given the price tag 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 might all be more valuable due to the cost differential.

    The 1980-81 and 2007-08 Celts were both seen as top 5 teams at the start of the year, like us.

    Monroe was an excessively good pick up.

    If as I suggested we did a 3 way and ended up with Tyreke, Chalmers, and a middling 2nd rounder for Smart and our end of the round 1st, we'd be a shoe-in to the Finals.

    Where was Wyc? Two more sure playoff dates, stoking the flames of the Celtic fan base by being in the Finals?

    Given all we have for resources in '19, what would we really be giving up here?

    Resources like most things have a sweet spot, and an expiration date. Or to quote the song "ya gotta know when to hold 'em...".

    Mistake.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 02-08-2018 at 08:38 PM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  8. #233
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    I love how people think the lower 20's picks are worthless while Draymond was picked 35th
    Fan of Red sox , Chicago bears , Boston Celtics , Chase Elliott , UVA

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsox12 View Post
    I love how people think the lower 20's picks are worthless while Draymond was picked 35th
    Like every 35th pick is Draymond.

    Here is the last few 29's:

    Derrick White
    Dejounte Murray
    Chris MuCoullough
    Jeff Huestis
    Archie Goodwin (hey! Nero Wolfe's pal!)
    Marquis Teague
    Cory Joseph
    Daniel Orton
    Toney Douglas
    D.J. White

    About 6 of these guys have less then 2 career WS, one guy under 20, one guy over....

    Yeah lets demote our chances at a title by say 12% for a stiff. Our roster is loaded, get a 2nd like I said in a deal and draft a eurostash.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsox12 View Post
    I love how people think the lower 20's picks are worthless while Draymond was picked 35th
    I hate this argument SOOO much. Yeah ok, every now and then you get a Draymond Green at 35 or an IT at #60. Those guys are FEW AND FARRRR BETWEEN. Know how many wash outs get drafted picks 20-60...About 98%. So yeah...Let's keep that late first for the 2% chance that we draft an All Star.

    I mean, no, the pick is not completely worthless. Not what I'm saying. But to expect a Draymond Green type player with that pick is Ludacris. With the amount of young end of bench talent we have. The future picks we have. We would hardly feel the loss of a late first round pick.

    ****. With Danny's track record the best player from 20-60 will be picked within 5 picks before or after Danny's selection....Let's walk down memory lane.

    2008 Draft
    BOS picks - JR GIDDENS #30
    LAC picks - DEANDRE JORDAN #35

    2009 Draft
    BOS picks - LESTER HUDSON #58
    POR picks - PATTY MILLS #55

    2010 Draft
    BOS picks - AVERY BRADLEY #19
    OKC picks - ERIC BLEDSOE #18

    2011 Draft
    BOS picks - MARSHON BROOKS #25 - Traded for JAJUAN JOHNSON #27
    CHI picks - JIMMY BUTLER #30

    2012 Draft
    BOS picks - JARED SULLINGER #21
    BOS picks - FAB MELO #22
    DEN picks - EVAN FOURNIER #20
    IND picks - MILES PLUMLEE #26

    2013 Draft
    BOS picks - KELLY OLYNYK #13
    MIL picks - GIANNIS #15

    As you can see...Even if we had the pick, it's likely Danny would pick the wrong guy anyways. Now I'm not one to hammer Danny on his drafting, I don't think it's as bad as many say it is. Could it be better? Yes. But the NBA draft is an absolute crap shoot. Which is exactly why valuing a late first round pick like Danny did this deadline...Is idiotic. Tyreke would give us a serious edge. Rental or not, it's highly likely Tyreke would impact this organization more in 1 half season than that late first would his entire career here.

    City of Champions

  11. #236
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    Maybe Danny strongly believes that Hayward is coming back before the playoffs. Either way if the price was just a low first rounder he should've gone after Tyreke.
    Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up.


    Red Auerbach

  12. #237
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    Feb 2010
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    I'm still trying to figure out why we valued that 1st round pick so heavily over Tyreke. I would have made that deal 2 weeks ago.

    However, if we project to next season, we may get some clarity.

    At this point, don't expect the Lakers pick to convey - we're looking at SAC's pick next year. ATL, ORL, DAL, SAC, PHO, MEM will all clearly finish worse than LAL, even if after the trades LAL falls back a bit.

    So heading into next offseason, here's where we stand.

    Players under contract

    PG - Irving/Rozier
    SG - Hayward/Brown
    SF - Tatum/Morris/Nader
    PF - Theis/Yabusele/Ojeleye
    C - Horford

    Ojeleye ($900k), Nader ($450k) only have partially guaranteed deals. Theis is not guaranteed but he's guaranteed it with his play. Ojeleye should also be safe. Nader could be cut if need be.

    Total contracts on the books is just under $107.5M. With a projected cap of $101M...We'll be operating over the cap this offseason. We will get the full MLE which is about $8M.

    We have 3 roster spots open.

    Smart, Monroe, Baynes, Larking are our only Free Agents. We only have bird rights for Smart. I'm sure he'll get a QO which is about $6M.

    If Monroe works out this year, I'm sure Danny will try to bring him back with the MLE. Not sure if he takes it, he could easily get more on the open market. But if he likes it here and fits well, he may just choose to stay on a contending team rather than take the money and lose as he's done his entire career. So let's assume he takes it.

    2 Roster spots to go...No money to spend. But we can re-sign Smart. And we have our 2018 draft pick.

    Let's re-evaluate the roster at this point. I want to look at the locks for play time based on this year, essentially, the players who have made the most impact.

    PG - Irving/Rozier
    SG - Hayward
    SF - Tatum/Brown
    PF - Horford
    C - Monroe

    This is the core 7 we need to build around and compliment. Looking at this, we're lacking a big and a scoring option for that second unit. Theis can factor in as the 4th big, that's a solid guy for that role. With no money and really, an upgrade needed, we can let Baynes walk.

    Morris has had an up and down season. He wants to be a starter. He's a Free Agent after 2019. I just don't see him as a long term fit here. Smart as well, he's a bulldog and a gritty player, but he's a hot head and with Hayward coming back, we can move Brown to the second unit to take Smarts role from this year with zero drop off defensively and far more upside.

    Let's consolidate here.

    BOS Trades
    Smart (Sign and Trade $8-10M)
    Morris
    LAC first rounder
    2019 BOS first rounder

    MIL trades
    Kris Middleton.

    We can now re-sign Larkin for the minimum. I think he plays well for a 3rd PG. With our 2018 first we can draft a big.

    2018-2019 Roster

    PG Irving(35)/Rozier(13)/Larkin
    SG Hayward(35)/Brown(30)/Nader
    SF Middleton(25)/Tatum(35)/Ojeleye
    PF Horford(35)/Theis(12)/Yabusele
    C Monroe(20)/18 first rounder

    I would love to run with this team. The interchangeable wings would be a delight to watch. Hayward/Middleton/Brown/Tatum are all interchangeable at the 2-3 and can play some 4 in small ball lineups. They're super athletic. They can all play solid defense. Outside of Brown they can all score in bunches (even Brown is getting there). For the Bigs, Monroe and Horford are a great compliment to one another.

    I would try and extend Kyrie before the season starts and sell him on this group. This is his team and as currently constructed, they should have a 2-3 year window to be elite at minimum...in 2019 we'd have the MEM draft pick and SAC draft pick to bolster the depth. Our only Free Agent would be Rozier, and Horford potentially if he declines his option (doubtful).

    I can see where this 18 pick is slightly valuable for roster building purposes next year. We're going to need to keep infusing this team with young cheap talent so we can keep paying the top end guys.

    -I still would have traded the pick for Tyreke. But if this happens next offseason....I can live with it.

    City of Champions

  13. #238
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    With the Cap so tigh for everyone next year(except lakers lol) teams were valuing picks over rental players.

    With out too much flexibility this off season bringing back smart or a 2 yr deal for cheap might be a good idea

  14. #239
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post

    Morris has had an up and down season. He wants to be a starter. He's a Free Agent after 2019. I just don't see him as a long term fit here. Smart as well, he's a bulldog and a gritty player, but he's a hot head and with Hayward coming back, we can move Brown to the second unit to take Smarts role from this year with zero drop off defensively and far more upside.

    Let's consolidate here.

    BOS Trades
    Smart (Sign and Trade $8-10M)
    Morris
    LAC first rounder
    2019 BOS first rounder

    MIL trades
    Kris Middleton.
    I'd like to trade Morris for Jeremy Lamb around draft time... IMO building up the scoring for the backcourt is important...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  15. #240
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    Nov 2007
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    43,892
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out why we valued that 1st round pick so heavily over Tyreke. I would have made that deal 2 weeks ago.

    However, if we project to next season, we may get some clarity.

    At this point, don't expect the Lakers pick to convey - we're looking at SAC's pick next year. ATL, ORL, DAL, SAC, PHO, MEM will all clearly finish worse than LAL, even if after the trades LAL falls back a bit.
    Chatter about LAL buying out IT. Can't believe the crazy Dad would stand for his son losing any time to IT. Lakers took a hit in talent, and the Coach has to fit the pieces. Not likely, but the next 4-5 games should tell if its something to watch, or hang it up.

    So heading into next offseason, here's where we stand.

    Players under contract

    PG - Irving/Rozier
    SG - Hayward/Brown
    SF - Tatum/Morris/Nader
    PF - Theis/Yabusele/Ojeleye
    C - Horford

    Ojeleye ($900k), Nader ($450k) only have partially guaranteed deals. Theis is not guaranteed but he's guaranteed it with his play. Ojeleye should also be safe. Nader could be cut if need be.
    Nader has to be gone.

    Total contracts on the books is just under $107.5M. With a projected cap of $101M...We'll be operating over the cap this offseason. We will get the full MLE which is about $8M.

    We have 3 roster spots open.

    Smart, Monroe, Baynes, Larking are our only Free Agents. We only have bird rights for Smart. I'm sure he'll get a QO which is about $6M.

    If Monroe works out this year, I'm sure Danny will try to bring him back with the MLE. Not sure if he takes it, he could easily get more on the open market. But if he likes it here and fits well, he may just choose to stay on a contending team rather than take the money and lose as he's done his entire career. So let's assume he takes it.
    Hope so. If not, then a Center is coming in this slot, or we are making a mega deal for one.

    2 Roster spots to go...No money to spend. But we can re-sign Smart. And we have our 2018 draft pick.
    Smart will likely leave one way or the other.

    Let's re-evaluate the roster at this point. I want to look at the locks for play time based on this year, essentially, the players who have made the most impact.

    PG - Irving/Rozier
    SG - Hayward
    SF - Tatum/Brown
    PF - Horford
    C - Monroe

    This is the core 7 we need to build around and compliment. Looking at this, we're lacking a big and a scoring option for that second unit. Theis can factor in as the 4th big, that's a solid guy for that role. With no money and really, an upgrade needed, we can let Baynes walk.

    Morris has had an up and down season. He wants to be a starter. He's a Free Agent after 2019. I just don't see him as a long term fit here. Smart as well, he's a bulldog and a gritty player, but he's a hot head and with Hayward coming back, we can move Brown to the second unit to take Smarts role from this year with zero drop off defensively and far more upside.

    Let's consolidate here.

    BOS Trades
    Smart (Sign and Trade $8-10M)
    Morris
    LAC first rounder
    2019 BOS first rounder

    MIL trades
    Kris Middleton.

    We can now re-sign Larkin for the minimum. I think he plays well for a 3rd PG. With our 2018 first we can draft a big.
    This works.

    2018-2019 Roster

    PG Irving(35)/Rozier(13)/Larkin
    SG Hayward(35)/Brown(30)/Nader
    SF Middleton(25)/Tatum(35)/Ojeleye
    PF Horford(35)/Theis(12)/Yabusele
    C Monroe(20)/18 first rounder

    I would love to run with this team. The interchangeable wings would be a delight to watch. Hayward/Middleton/Brown/Tatum are all interchangeable at the 2-3 and can play some 4 in small ball lineups. They're super athletic. They can all play solid defense. Outside of Brown they can all score in bunches (even Brown is getting there). For the Bigs, Monroe and Horford are a great compliment to one another.

    I would try and extend Kyrie before the season starts and sell him on this group. This is his team and as currently constructed, they should have a 2-3 year window to be elite at minimum...in 2019 we'd have the MEM draft pick and SAC draft pick to bolster the depth. Our only Free Agent would be Rozier, and Horford potentially if he declines his option (doubtful).

    I can see where this 18 pick is slightly valuable for roster building purposes next year. We're going to need to keep infusing this team with young cheap talent so we can keep paying the top end guys.

    -I still would have traded the pick for Tyreke. But if this happens next offseason....I can live with it.
    The '18 pick is liable to be worse in year one than either of the Centers we had '16-'17. I think Theis and Horford have to do some time at C. Tatum at the PF also. It doesn't matter what label you give Hayward, because on D he has to play against the weakest and/or slowest offensive wing on the other team.

    If DA does a blockbuster I can see Hayward or Horford going to balance off the money of the return, DA has a good amount of picks to enrich such a deal for the seller.

    You can win a title with an elite PG and three elite wings and an elite PF. It would help if the C's were as effective as this year (as seen at the end of the year including Monroe) next year. Unless we get Monroe on the cheap I seriously doubt that will happen. A 27th or later pick and a fair value MLE don't seem to offer that outcome.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 02-09-2018 at 10:37 AM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

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