Caldwell on the hot seat. You get to choose the next HC + OC/DC, who you got?

[rocket]

Bring back Schwartz? I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. What position did we pile up? You caught me off balance when you switched from coaching to player personnel

he thinks if we get an offensive head coach that we'll only pass the ball and be terrible on defense

which makes no sense lol

[whooligun]

he thinks if we get an offensive head coach that we'll only pass the ball and be terrible on defense

which makes no sense lol

No he doesn’t. Read again.

[vader817]

Again this is still bringing up my point. Yes Caldwell is better than we had, but they have all be crap. Just because he is better than the crap we have had doesnt mean he is the one for us. We are all (or most of us) are so use to 2/3/4 wins a season that when we got Caldwell it was like a crazy life savor. I mean he has not been horrible, but going 8-8 or 10-6 and then losing in the playoffs is not ok. See some are still in the mindset that (hey we made the playoffs this is good). No it is not. We have to want a team thats going to win playoff games and nothing less. Caldwell at this time is not someone to win us a playoff game. He can get us there possibly every other year or so, but we won't win one. And I would like to win one.

You need to stop looking at this as Caldwell is better than what we had because we haven't had anything great since 91 and before that was the 50s. Barry teams were good. But like they were then and how we are now. They were good enough to get to the playoffs but never win.

Yes this is bringing up your point but we can't constantly keep firing coach after coach because us fans want it. I'll be the first to admit that I want Caldwell gone but I honestly don't see it happening this year. We are going to miss the playoffs even if we finish 10-6 because of all the teams ahead of us that own the tie breaker. The coaches before him really didn't have the personal because the front office sucked and Stafford, Megatron and Suh's contracts counted towards over half of our salary cap which really hurt us in trying to get top free agents because we couldn't afford them. I understand all the frustration this organization has brought us fans but we finally have a coach that has us winning and yet we as fans want to throw the towel at him. I think the 9 men on field is definitely one of the boneheaded moves Caldwell has made and me personally think its inexcusable. Like Jack B said all coaches have made boneheaded mistakes Pete Carroll's decision to throw the ball on the 1 yard line in the Super Bowl is right up there especially when BEASTMODE was running all over the Patriots. I like all of us want this team to win a Super Bowl.

[Zspooner]

I think the Gruden takes are interesting. Supposedly he got good with the Glazers (Bucs owners) and he might come back as HC if they can Koetter. It's a really interesting scenario considering the guy has been connected to just about every single open HC position since he's been on ESPN -- probably just a really good agent on his end. Anyway, I think going down the Gruden road is pretty dangerous. Guy hasn't coached in a decade and had 10 wins or more just once since the super bowl win on the Bucs. I think meddling with them older/retired coaches is just a wild play. It COULD work, sure, but to think any of those dudes would absolutely re-create previous success is kinda iffy to me. Outside of the SB win, I don't know how Gruden really is that much different than Caldwell. He calls plays, I think? But even that is an overrated ability. There's only a few coaches in the past quarter century that've maintained HC play calling on either side of the ball for more than a few years.

If you're going to hire away a candidate, I just hope you get your first option because I don't think there's a lot out there. If you want a Sean McVay type, you pretty much have to go for the Jets OC, who I don't know the name of but has made their talent-less offense into a pretty competent bunch. After that? McDaniels or Patricia is the obvious connection. Maybe you hope for a good HC to get fired due to a meh run? Only guy I can see that happening to is John Harbaugh, which I'd like to have, but if he didn't get fired last year I doubt it happens this year. Do ya'll think Bill O'Brien is good? He might be on his way out. I think the Lions talked to him in the past (also a former Patriot).

Just a rough position. It's why I think Caldwell should just stay here until the talent materializes. Will we win a playoff game with him? I don't know, i mean we got robbed of one, but the team did play like **** in the 2nd half and we've had 2nd half issues with Caldwell as long as he's been here (lack of strategy or unwillingness to change the strategy). I just am not on the boat with the talent on the roster. I don't think there's a legitimate hire that turns us from a possible 9-7/10-6 team that's a 1 and done to a 12-4 type team that can make a run. I just don't think that dude exists based on the talent we have.

When Caldwell got here, the core was Stafford-Calvin-Suh. Then after they left it was Stafford-Ansah-Slay. Now it's just Stafford-Slay-Quin. Quin obviously is on the wrong side of 30 and probably won't be this good for all that much longer. We need a D Line BAD. I think if we subbed out our D line for just a competent one, say, like the Falcons maybe? I think we'd be the division leader. Our roster has simply gotten worse, and while Quinn has done okay with the reserves (ST is really good and our back ups have been solid until injuries forced them into starters), but we need to gun for legitimate starting talent this offseason at multiple positions. They have the money + draft capital, and they have to hit.

Another reason I think it's dangerous to ditch Caldwell right now is because there exists a legitimate chance that our coaching situation gets worse. Let's all recognize that you can count the amount of game changer coaches (positive game changing coaches, that is) on a hand. There's Belichick, Carroll, Reid, Harbaugh and Payton who have sustained success at making their teams better. All but Belichick/Carroll (at least in his current stint), have gone through rough patches. Reid has been fired before, Harbaugh was almost fired last year, and until the Saints GM finally added defensive talent, it looked like Sean Payton might be on the verge of Jeff Fisher irrelevance until they tore it down or he went elsewhere. There are some new guys in recent years that look to be okay (Zimmer/McVay/Pederson), but Zimmer is the only one with more than a couple years of legitimate success, and even then he has as many playoff wins as Caldwell since they've both been hired to their respective spots. Pretty much, what I'm getting at is that we're in the HCing middle class. Is Caldwell the worst? No, he's not Gus Bradley, Hue Jackson or Dirk Koetter. Is he Bill Belichick or Pete Carroll, again, no. But is he decent? Yeah, and we're a decent team with or without him. If we fail and pick the wrong coach, we'll waste Slay/Stafford and whoever else, like Schwartz wasted Suh/Calvin. I think it is important to have the right roster in place before firing/hiring the head coach.

Considering we've been on the topic of Gruden a good bit -- look at the Bucs post-Gruden. He got fired after 2 seasons of 9-7. He pretty much put up Caldwell's record with a similar team talent-wise (except that Bucs team was aging rather than young). They've been through 3 coaches since then, and since 2009 (first year post-gruden), they've had 4 sub 5 win seasons and may be on their way to a fifth. They've made the playoffs zero times, had double digit wins once (10 wins), and as a total been over .500 just twice since his firing.

Keeping on with Gruden, think about how he got the Bucs job. The Bucs had a roster in place that they thought should contend (turned out it had a couple HOFers on it, we don't have any so this isn't similar in the slightest, but for the future let's consider this...). Dungy didn't cut it for them. He actually had an impressive run, but they decided they needed the next step to win it all (we need much more than one next step). After losing 2 consecutive wild card games, Gruden steps in and gets them to the promise land. Ideally, that's the scenario where Caldwell gets fired/replaced. I don't think we're there yet. However, I think a bad hire can ruin us like they have the Colts (RIP Andrew Luck).

[Zspooner]

Holy **** that's long, my bad.

[GuySir]

Holy **** that's long, my bad.

I legitimately shouted "whoa!" just now as I clicked the thread lol

[vader817]

I think the Gruden takes are interesting. Supposedly he got good with the Glazers (Bucs owners) and he might come back as HC if they can Koetter. It's a really interesting scenario considering the guy has been connected to just about every single open HC position since he's been on ESPN -- probably just a really good agent on his end. Anyway, I think going down the Gruden road is pretty dangerous. Guy hasn't coached in a decade and had 10 wins or more just once since the super bowl win on the Bucs. I think meddling with them older/retired coaches is just a wild play. It COULD work, sure, but to think any of those dudes would absolutely re-create previous success is kinda iffy to me. Outside of the SB win, I don't know how Gruden really is that much different than Caldwell. He calls plays, I think? But even that is an overrated ability. There's only a few coaches in the past quarter century that've maintained HC play calling on either side of the ball for more than a few years.

If you're going to hire away a candidate, I just hope you get your first option because I don't think there's a lot out there. If you want a Sean McVay type, you pretty much have to go for the Jets OC, who I don't know the name of but has made their talent-less offense into a pretty competent bunch. After that? McDaniels or Patricia is the obvious connection. Maybe you hope for a good HC to get fired due to a meh run? Only guy I can see that happening to is John Harbaugh, which I'd like to have, but if he didn't get fired last year I doubt it happens this year. Do ya'll think Bill O'Brien is good? He might be on his way out. I think the Lions talked to him in the past (also a former Patriot).

Just a rough position. It's why I think Caldwell should just stay here until the talent materializes. Will we win a playoff game with him? I don't know, i mean we got robbed of one, but the team did play like **** in the 2nd half and we've had 2nd half issues with Caldwell as long as he's been here (lack of strategy or unwillingness to change the strategy). I just am not on the boat with the talent on the roster. I don't think there's a legitimate hire that turns us from a possible 9-7/10-6 team that's a 1 and done to a 12-4 type team that can make a run. I just don't think that dude exists based on the talent we have.

When Caldwell got here, the core was Stafford-Calvin-Suh. Then after they left it was Stafford-Ansah-Slay. Now it's just Stafford-Slay-Quin. Quin obviously is on the wrong side of 30 and probably won't be this good for all that much longer. We need a D Line BAD. I think if we subbed out our D line for just a competent one, say, like the Falcons maybe? I think we'd be the division leader. Our roster has simply gotten worse, and while Quinn has done okay with the reserves (ST is really good and our back ups have been solid until injuries forced them into starters), but we need to gun for legitimate starting talent this offseason at multiple positions. They have the money + draft capital, and they have to hit.

Another reason I think it's dangerous to ditch Caldwell right now is because there exists a legitimate chance that our coaching situation gets worse. Let's all recognize that you can count the amount of game changer coaches (positive game changing coaches, that is) on a hand. There's Belichick, Carroll, Reid, Harbaugh and Payton who have sustained success at making their teams better. All but Belichick/Carroll (at least in his current stint), have gone through rough patches. Reid has been fired before, Harbaugh was almost fired last year, and until the Saints GM finally added defensive talent, it looked like Sean Payton might be on the verge of Jeff Fisher irrelevance until they tore it down or he went elsewhere. There are some new guys in recent years that look to be okay (Zimmer/McVay/Pederson), but Zimmer is the only one with more than a couple years of legitimate success, and even then he has as many playoff wins as Caldwell since they've both been hired to their respective spots. Pretty much, what I'm getting at is that we're in the HCing middle class. Is Caldwell the worst? No, he's not Gus Bradley, Hue Jackson or Dirk Koetter. Is he Bill Belichick or Pete Carroll, again, no. But is he decent? Yeah, and we're a decent team with or without him. If we fail and pick the wrong coach, we'll waste Slay/Stafford and whoever else, like Schwartz wasted Suh/Calvin. I think it is important to have the right roster in place before firing/hiring the head coach.

Considering we've been on the topic of Gruden a good bit -- look at the Bucs post-Gruden. He got fired after 2 seasons of 9-7. He pretty much put up Caldwell's record with a similar team talent-wise (except that Bucs team was aging rather than young). They've been through 3 coaches since then, and since 2009 (first year post-gruden), they've had 4 sub 5 win seasons and may be on their way to a fifth. They've made the playoffs zero times, had double digit wins once (10 wins), and as a total been over .500 just twice since his firing.

Keeping on with Gruden, think about how he got the Bucs job. The Bucs had a roster in place that they thought should contend (turned out it had a couple HOFers on it, we don't have any so this isn't similar in the slightest, but for the future let's consider this...). Dungy didn't cut it for them. He actually had an impressive run, but they decided they needed the next step to win it all (we need much more than one next step). After losing 2 consecutive wild card games, Gruden steps in and gets them to the promise land. Ideally, that's the scenario where Caldwell gets fired/replaced. I don't think we're there yet. However, I think a bad hire can ruin us like they have the Colts (RIP Andrew Luck).

great post! The whole RIP Andrew Luck situation sucks. Talking about an organization that has ruined a career.

[GuySir]

John Morton. Make him go by Johnny and see if anyone falls for it

[rocket]

bring in Johnny Football as the head coach

[Zspooner]

great post! The whole RIP Andrew Luck situation sucks. Talking about an organization that has ruined a career.

So wild how careers can play out in the NFL (and really any sport). Bob Griffin was such a stud, and now he's pretty much done in the NFL. Then you saw Luck develop into a stud and now who knows if he'll ever be the same. Though he hadn't made the leap the other two have, I think this is beginning to happen to Mariota too. He hasn't looked good at all since returning from injury last season. His offensive scheme might be the worst in the league, but man looks like another young dude who we once had high hopes for only to fall off early.