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  1. #1006
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    Can somebody explain to me about arbitration?

    Why do players get raises when they had horrible seasons? Do raises happen regardless of performance?

  2. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    The problem is yelich is young, all star candidate, and has great contract. The Marlin's have no reason to move him, and definitely not for second tier prospects.

    What would they do with the names you listed? Half of them are at least 2-3 years away. Why give up someone who is cost effective and plays like a perennial all star for such question marks.

    That's why we would need to give up Rosario or conforto or syndergaard. Because if not, why would Miami even consider it?

    Unlike the guys they already dealt.... There's no reason to deal Yelich. It serves them no purpose.
    I mean, I don't think Smith is a second tier prospect. He was in the top 50 in the last rankings. Matz also is not a prospect, but it's silly to say he has no value. He has 4 years left of control and really good stuff. And then David Peterson is a 1st round pick who looks like he could be a potential top of the rotation arm. I think he will be moving up the prospect rankings when the next rankings get released. I think these 3 are legitimate assets right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  3. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ5382 View Post
    I am way higher on Yelich than you seem to be. The guy has posted three 4.5-win seasons before age 26 and has a contract with an AAV of just $11.7M for his ages 26-30 seasons. I challenge you to find a player in all of baseball with a more team-friendly contract. I can understand your argument that Conforto is a more valuable commodity. But to say you wouldn't trade Amed Rosario for Yelich straight up is sheer lunacy. And me saying that has nothing to do with Rosario's poor performance after his call-up. He could have had a Conforto-esque debut and I'd still make that deal in a heartbeat.

    Since 2013, Yelich is a top-10 outfielder in baseball by measure of fWAR. And that encompasses seasons in which the kid was 22 and 23! The HR's and RBI numbers don't jump off the page but when you factor in position, plate discipline and durability, he's an elite player IMO.
    How is it sheer lunacy to not want to trade Rosario for him. We are talking about a SS with GG potential who was ranked as the #1 prospect in all of baseball not that long ago. I said it was a fair trade, but I wouldn't do it. Giving up Rosario and Smith would be too much as evidence by what the Red Sox game up for the superior Chris Sale... and that haul for the White Sox was generally considered a good return value for the White Sox.

    Shortstops with Rosario's skill sit and potential don't just grow on trees. He has a ton of value by himself. And the fact that you say if Rosario had a Conforto-esque debut you would still make that deal... I know you're lying lol. If he showed that type of offense in the big leagues last year, you'd be a moron to trade him. That would be like trading Seager, Lindor, or Correa for Yelich. Why on Earth would you make that trade? I'd rather have a 6.0 WAR SS than a 4.5 WAR OF and so would you.

    I know full well how good Yelich is. He's a very good player who has a great contract. We still don't know how good a hitter Rosario will be so I can understand the idea of trading for Yelich, but at the same time, I'm pretty sure if we were serious about trading a Rosario for a proven commodity, we could get someone better than Yelich, especially if we simply packaged another prospect or two in a deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  4. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    I mean, I don't think Smith is a second tier prospect. He was in the top 50 in the last rankings. Matz also is not a prospect, but it's silly to say he has no value. He has 4 years left of control and really good stuff. And then David Peterson is a 1st round pick who looks like he could be a potential top of the rotation arm. I think he will be moving up the prospect rankings when the next rankings get released. I think these 3 are legitimate assets right now.
    The problem is that Dominic Smith has problem with his weight and came up and underwhelmed. He is a second tier prospect because he isn't a game changer. He has more question marks than answers. Matz is also not a prospect anymore, he has pitched in the big leagues enough to have a reputation as a guy who can't stay healthy. Yes, he has 4 years left of control and really good stuff, but he has a reputation for not being able to stay healthy. David Peterson is a 1st rounder with great potential, but he is at least 4-5 years away.

    You don't trade someone like Christian Yelich, who is a top 30 MLB player right now with a very long and team friendly contract for all these question marks. That just makes no sense. You trade him for the blue chip guys who can be game changers, who have question marks but great projections too.

    Amed Rosario is a good start cause he is a blue chip. But outside of him, we don't have another blue chip. The only other one is Syndergaard because he is coming back from injury but pitched like one of the best pitchers in baseball.

  5. #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    How is it sheer lunacy to not want to trade Rosario for him. We are talking about a SS with GG potential who was ranked as the #1 prospect in all of baseball not that long ago. I said it was a fair trade, but I wouldn't do it. Giving up Rosario and Smith would be too much as evidence by what the Red Sox game up for the superior Chris Sale... and that haul for the White Sox was generally considered a good return value for the White Sox.

    Shortstops with Rosario's skill sit and potential don't just grow on trees. He has a ton of value by himself. And the fact that you say if Rosario had a Conforto-esque debut you would still make that deal... I know you're lying lol. If he showed that type of offense in the big leagues last year, you'd be a moron to trade him. That would be like trading Seager, Lindor, or Correa for Yelich. Why on Earth would you make that trade? I'd rather have a 6.0 WAR SS than a 4.5 WAR OF and so would you.

    I know full well how good Yelich is. He's a very good player who has a great contract. We still don't know how good a hitter Rosario will be so I can understand the idea of trading for Yelich, but at the same time, I'm pretty sure if we were serious about trading a Rosario for a proven commodity, we could get someone better than Yelich, especially if we simply packaged another prospect or two in a deal.
    Actually I would rank Yelich higher than Sale. Here are the many reasons why.

    1. Yelich is 2 years younger
    2. Yelich is a free agent in 2022, Sale in 2019
    3. Yelich is a premier hitter and fielder, which are usually more valuable than pitchers.
    4. Sale does come with some injury concerns.
    5. And most importantly, the Marlins don't need to move Yelich. The White Sox had to move Sale.....

  6. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Can somebody explain to me about arbitration?

    Why do players get raises when they had horrible seasons? Do raises happen regardless of performance?
    Yes in a way. Your contract goes up each year, the amount it goes up is dependent on your performance though. There is a somewhat scaling system for how much is typically given to the average first arb year, second arb year, and third arb year guy. And then you multiply or divide that by a percentage based on how you performed compared to the average guy for that arb year.

  7. #1012
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    David Peterson was a college pitcher, correct? So he's probably more like 2-3 years away. I don't necessarily view him as a blue chip at the moment nor do I with Smith and Matz. But, if you package them all together, the value adds up.

    And how do you not consider deGrom and Conforto as blue chips along with Rosario and Syndergaard? Not that I want to trade any of them right now, but still.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  8. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    David Peterson was a college pitcher, correct? So he's probably more like 2-3 years away. I don't necessarily view him as a blue chip at the moment nor do I with Smith and Matz. But, if you package them all together, the value adds up.

    And how do you not consider deGrom and Conforto as blue chips along with Rosario and Syndergaard? Not that I want to trade any of them right now, but still.
    DeGrom's age makes him not a blue chip. He is an ace but not a blue chip piece because a rebuilding team like the Marlins have little use for him unless they were able to find a third party to trade.

    Conforto is a blue chip but I didn't consider him because it makes no sense to trade for Yelich and give up Conforto....

    And value adds up, and would make sense for a guy like Harrison. But for someone like Yelich, they don't need quantity. They need quality. And a bunch of "good" players isn't enough for a top 30 MLB talent

  9. #1014
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    Here's the thing. The Red Sox example with Chris Sale is a good comparison for Christian Yelich.

    The Red Sox gave up Yoan Moncada (#1 prospect), Michael Kopech (#30 prospect with a 100 mph fastball. So huge upside), Victor Diaz (throws 100 mph and can be an elite reliever although years away), and Luis Alexander Basabe (outfielder with great risk and good reward).

    Basically the Sox gave up two blue chip guys and two guys who are years away but with good potential. That's similar to most of our guys in the minors right now.

    An equivalence of this would be Rosario, Smith (ish because Smith was top 50 and Kopech was top 30) and two high quality prospects from our farm (maybe Dunn and Szupacki)

  10. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    Actually I would rank Yelich higher than Sale. Here are the many reasons why.

    1. Yelich is 2 years younger
    2. Yelich is a free agent in 2022, Sale in 2019
    3. Yelich is a premier hitter and fielder, which are usually more valuable than pitchers.
    4. Sale does come with some injury concerns.
    5. And most importantly, the Marlins don't need to move Yelich. The White Sox had to move Sale.....
    We are comparing their trade values for when the deals are made so keep that in mind. Sale was traded last year and the rumors for Yelich are for this year. So tack on another year of control for Sale in this comparison. Also, let's not act like Yelich is an elite player he's never been one in the past and unless his starts smashing 30+ homers a year it's unlikely he gets to that level. And IDK what injury concerns you are referring to with Sale. He has been one of the most durable pitchers in baseball. And lastly, did the White Sox need to move Sale any more than the Marlins or vice versa? I don't understand the logic there. Both teams are looking to rebuild.

    Sale was a 7.7 WAR pitcher last year. Yelich was a 4.5 WAR OFer. They are not in the same category. This is the most important factor of all. There is a stark difference in their current production. Sale is probably the 2nd best pitcher in the game at the moment.

    This argument is basically a 5 year $60 mil deal for Yelich vs a 3 year $40 mil deal for Sale. I'll take the latter deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  11. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    Here's the thing. The Red Sox example with Chris Sale is a good comparison for Christian Yelich.

    The Red Sox gave up Yoan Moncada (#1 prospect), Michael Kopech (#30 prospect with a 100 mph fastball. So huge upside), Victor Diaz (throws 100 mph and can be an elite reliever although years away), and Luis Alexander Basabe (outfielder with great risk and good reward).

    Basically the Sox gave up two blue chip guys and two guys who are years away but with good potential. That's similar to most of our guys in the minors right now.

    An equivalence of this would be Rosario, Smith (ish because Smith was top 50 and Kopech was top 30) and two high quality prospects from our farm (maybe Dunn and Szupacki)
    I know the Red Sox gave up a lot. It's generally considered a very nice return for the White Sox. I think the Red Sox paid a lot, but I understand why they did it. They got a truly elite pitcher when they needed that type of pitcher to get to the next level as WS contenders. I don't think Yelich brings the same type of impact as Sale. Not even close really. I agree about the equivalence being what you mentioned, but I wouldn't give up the equivalence for Yelich compared to Sale. I think Quintana is more comparable to Yelich in terms of value than someone like Sale. To be quite frank about it, I think Sale is at another level completely.

    I mean, I get that Yelich is young and has been very consistent, but he's never been anything close to elite like Sale. C'mon now, he's just not that type of hitter. He's a good hitter, not a great hitter. Bruce was a better hitter last year. I get the love fest for Yelich but some of you are going too far with it. You are comparing him with Chris Sale... the guy who just put up 300 K's last year and is a top 3 pitcher in the game.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 01-12-2018 at 01:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  12. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    DeGrom's age makes him not a blue chip. He is an ace but not a blue chip piece because a rebuilding team like the Marlins have little use for him unless they were able to find a third party to trade.

    Conforto is a blue chip but I didn't consider him because it makes no sense to trade for Yelich and give up Conforto....

    And value adds up, and would make sense for a guy like Harrison. But for someone like Yelich, they don't need quantity. They need quality. And a bunch of "good" players isn't enough for a top 30 MLB talent
    Well you don't trade deGrom to the Marlins. You trade him to a team that needs an ace. Or you keep him and try to sign him to an extension. I'm not just calling him and Conforto blue chips in terms of a Yelich deal, I'm saying it in general.

    If Rosario can hit at a 110 wRC+ clip, he'll be better than Yelich. I'll take my chances with Rosario.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  13. #1018
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    The 137 wRC+ season seems like an outlier for Yelich right now. He seems more like a 115-120 wRC+ hitter with good, but not great OF defense. I think it's pretty ridiculous to compare him to Chris Sale right now.

    Adam Eaton and Jose Quintana are better comparisons. I know Eaton got a really nice return, but I'm not a Giolito fan at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  14. #1019
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    https://twitter.com/byjameswagner/st...02562705436674


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #1020
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    Breaking: According to Cliff Floyd on intentional talk, the Mets paid him 1MM this past year and ‘deferred everybody’

    So uh...do what you will with that info

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