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  1. #376
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    Franked made a nice driving layup yesterday where u can see his insane length. I think he will get to the line just fine later on.

    I don't think you can knock an 18 year old PG for being "passive" in a EURO league dominated by grown men. different game. even Jennings the chucker averaged like 6ppg over there no?

    I see star potential all over the place with Frank.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    That's simply not true. KP had like one dreamshake amongst dozens and dozens and dozens of awful attempts his first couple years. It was ugly, hard to watch, there was barely a foundation, everyone thought his best hope was getting a PG and being a pick and pop extroardinaire (myself included). It was way more than just strength. He didn't have any moves - nothing he could hang his hat on to get buckets 1on1 - just ask Bivory.

    I know what you're trying to say, certain things you can't teach, but I don't think it's accurate when describing a rookie whose hesitant to take the ball in the paint and make plays for himself and others. You can learn that, you can improve that, I'm confident Frank will even if it's done via patience and craftiness instead of blazing downhill speed.

    Frank is never gonna drive to the rack and live at the FT line. But I think he will get in the paint and create eventually. He is always looking to set guys up, he is very patient there, he is still feeling out the NBA caliber defense, speed, size down low to get a comfort level. Awareness on the drive takes some time to figure out when you're not a guy with tunnelvision at the hoop.
    That's lack of foresight for a guy that's 19 no? How can any one of us say what he will be in say 3, 5, 6 years. In 5 years, he's going to be a completely different player. I bet you in 3 years, three, you will take this quote back.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    You don't have to put up stats to be aggressive. I'm not looking at numbers at all.

    He caught the ball, was by himself, took two dribbles, and laid it up. Who was the closest defender to him? That's definitely a stretch...any NBA player would convert that play the same way.

    As far as star potential, I've only seen it on one side of the court (which is amazing, considering what side it is). I don't think he's done anything offensively for you to believe that.
    You are being clouded by some of the best highlight clips of KP's rookie season and forgetting how brutal some of his post up attempts were. That's fine. I saw Frank drive and put up a smooth *** floater earlier this season. If we're going by "flashes". KP has always been a killer and had that mentality, no disagreement there. Frank is always gonna be the guy that wants to set guys up first and that's fine. He flashed a late game clutch gene when he buried the 3 against Indy after missing one right before that.

    Quote Originally Posted by teddygreen17 View Post
    That's lack of foresight for a guy that's 19 no? How can any one of us say what he will be in say 3, 5, 6 years. In 5 years, he's going to be a completely different player. I bet you in 3 years, three, you will take this quote back.
    I don't think that's his game, certain things are baked into your DNA. His head is up at all times looking for teammates. There is nothing wrong with that.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    You are being clouded by some of the best highlight clips of KP's rookie season and forgetting how brutal some of his post up attempts were. That's fine. I saw Frank drive and put up a smooth *** floater earlier this season. If we're going by "flashes". KP has always been a killer and had that mentality, no disagreement there. Frank is always gonna be the guy that wants to set guys up first and that's fine. He flashed a late game clutch gene when he buried the 3 against Indy after missing one right before that.



    I don't think that's his game, certain things are baked into your DNA. His head is up at all times looking for teammates. There is nothing wrong with that.
    There is nothing wrong with that, but when I say that and say because of that the Knicks may need to find another PG and move him off the ball, it's an issue.

    Also, KPs post up attempts were brutal because he got pushed around, not because he was a fish out of water and didn't know how to score down there.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    You don't have to put up stats to be aggressive. I'm not looking at numbers at all.

    He caught the ball, was by himself, took two dribbles, and laid it up. Who was the closest defender to him? That's definitely a stretch...any NBA player would convert that play the same way.

    As far as star potential, I've only seen it on one side of the court (which is amazing, considering what side it is). I don't think he's done anything offensively for you to believe that.
    im not looking at numbers, just saying, EURO PG's, especially 18 year old ones, are not going to go out there and attack. so saying that was a knock on him? I think thats just the way the game is played.

    Frank had two layups yesterday, one of them was contested... that's the one I refer to.

    Offensively he's a very good passer, we've seen flashes of some great vision. he's had two 8 assist games already despite not playing that much. His jumper looks smooth, and with his length and size, he will be able to get his shot off against smaller guards, much like KP does now. So yea there is offensive potential there. but I also dont think a star is only on offense. Dray barely scores 10ppg and he's arguably a top 10 player. Frank is a very unique player and I think he'll be a star in his own right.
    Last edited by nycericanguy; 11-14-2017 at 05:44 PM.

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    im not looking at numbers, just saying, EURO PG's, especially 18 year old ones, are not going to go out there and attack. so saying that was a knock on him? I think thats just the way the game is played.

    Frank had two layups yesterday, one of them was contested... that's the one I refer to.

    Offensively he's a very good passer, we've seen flashes of some great vision. he's had two 8 assist games already despite not playing that much. His jumper looks smooth, and with his length and size, he will be able to get his shot off against smaller guards, much like KP does now. So yea there is offensive potential there. but I also dont think a star is only on offense. Dray barely scores 10ppg and he's a top 10 player. Frank is a very unique player and I think he'll be a star in his own right.
    You can't stereotype a PG based on where he played. If that's the case, why weren't Parker, Dragic, even Alexey Shved and Sergio Rodriguez, like that (just to name a few). It's not a Euro thing at all. European PGs and players are not a new thing in the NBA and they come in with all different styles.

    He does have good vision and his shot looks like it will come along, however he wouldn't be the first player to have to use those skill sets off the ball because they just aren't as good with the ball in their hands.

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    Eh, I don't think KP had moves even last year, let alone his rookie season. He was just so talented that he could try to emulate stuff and it sometimes worked, but his efficiency and turnover rate on post up and ISO was absolutely horrendous. There were a lot of ugly possessions for him. You can see a world of a difference now. He actually has a plan, he's got real moves now. The added strength is definitely a factor too.

    Idk, to me Frank has flashed a lot. He's very different than most PGs though so it's not in the same variety. You know who Frank reminds me of? Dennis Johnson.



    Note: Please mind the potato cam footage from the late 70's/80's.

    Side Note: The pass off the backboard at 1:26 is such an incredibly genius play haha.
    Mainly because he got pushed around and rushed things, not because he couldn't actually do it. He got stronger and the game slowed down for him.

    I can't comment on the Dennis Johnson comparison.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    im not looking at numbers, just saying, EURO PG's, especially 18 year old ones, are not going to go out there and attack. so saying that was a knock on him? I think thats just the way the game is played.

    Frank had two layups yesterday, one of them was contested... that's the one I refer to.

    Offensively he's a very good passer, we've seen flashes of some great vision. he's had two 8 assist games already despite not playing that much. His jumper looks smooth, and with his length and size, he will be able to get his shot off against smaller guards, much like KP does now. So yea there is offensive potential there. but I also dont think a star is only on offense. Dray barely scores 10ppg and he's arguably a top 10 player. Frank is a very unique player and I think he'll be a star in his own right.
    Yeah, that one layup in traffic was promising since he got to the rim from the top of the key in like 2 steps. He's probably not going to get any foul calls right now but he should take it strong to the rack if he has openings, because the defenses are playing him to pass right now which tightens things up.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    You're not getting it. KP came in with a dream shake and other post moves. He just wasn't strong enough to hold his position on the block. We're not seeing anything different from KP in terms of who he is as a player. He just got stronger and better.

    It also has nothing to do with coming in and lighting it up. Look at someone like Giannis and even Kobe, they didn't light it up right away so I would never expect Frank to. It's about flashing the ability to do certain things as a PG.
    Eh, I don't think KP had moves even last year, let alone his rookie season. He was just so talented that he could try to emulate stuff and it sometimes worked, but his efficiency and turnover rate on post up and ISO was absolutely horrendous. There were a lot of ugly possessions for him. You can see a world of a difference now. He actually has a plan, he's got real moves now. The added strength is definitely a factor too but he's still weak.

    Idk, to me Frank has flashed a lot. He's very different than most PGs though so it's not in the same variety. You know who Frank reminds me of? Dennis Johnson.



    Note: Please mind the potato cam footage from the late 70's/80's.

    Side Note: The pass off the backboard at 1:26 is such an incredibly genius play haha.
    Last edited by FOXHOUND; 11-14-2017 at 05:54 PM.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    You don't have to put up stats to be aggressive. I'm not looking at numbers at all.

    He caught the ball, was by himself, took two dribbles, and laid it up. Who was the closest defender to him? That's definitely a stretch...any NBA player would convert that play the same way.

    As far as star potential, I've only seen it on one side of the court (which is amazing, considering what side it is). I don't think he's done anything offensively for you to believe that.
    I definitely agree. He plays tentative at times and doesn't seem to want the ball. But I also see him starting to go and get the ball.
    And it's got to be a big cultural adjustment for him. All these guys he's being compared to are from the US. They get what it is to be here, live here and succeed here. Frank's face and eyes genuinely look like a little boys compared to DSJ or Ball or Tatum.
    I think we will see Frank get pushed around some and he will get pissed and really start to chippy and change. Much like Willy, frank needs to get a little mean.
    We saw a little of it last night with LBJ. I no only loved Frank and Kanter for that but also Lee who came over with a big smile and patted him on the back of the head. Lee looked proud of him.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    Eh, I don't think KP had moves even last year, let alone his rookie season. He was just so talented that he could try to emulate stuff and it sometimes worked, but his efficiency and turnover rate on post up and ISO was absolutely horrendous. There were a lot of ugly possessions for him. You can see a world of a difference now. He actually has a plan, he's got real moves now. The added strength is definitely a factor too but he's still weak.

    Idk, to me Frank has flashed a lot. He's very different than most PGs though so it's not in the same variety. You know who Frank reminds me of? Dennis Johnson.



    Note: Please mind the potato cam footage from the late 70's/80's.

    Side Note: The pass off the backboard at 1:26 is such an incredibly genius play haha.
    Lol I swear I almost posted a picture of DJ last week after Perry did an interview because I was thinking DJ and Perry looked alike




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    I agree with your overall point about players generally not changing their playing styles but KP is a bad example lol.

    I think D is right, KP looked like he had no clue what he was doing down there his rookie season and even last year to an extent. He had no footwork to speak of, did one move and chucked it at the rim no matter if it worked or not, and rushed everything. Compared to now where you see one, two, sometimes three moves in succession to freeze or evade the defender as well as being patient and not rushing anything, it's basically like night and day. Even I was saying before the draft that KP probably isn't a go to isolation scorer and would need a point guard to assist him on plays for him to really be elite offensively, so look at what he's doing now without a point guard by himself.
    Even if you disagree with KP, you do agree that it's rare for playing style to change. There are very, very few players that I can think of that were completely different players than when they started. It's making someone like Melo a facilitator lol...it just doesn't happen too often.

    I'm glad you understand though that it's not about the actual conversion of the play, but the ability to show that you can even attempt that play.

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    There is nothing wrong with that, but when I say that and say because of that the Knicks may need to find another PG and move him off the ball, it's an issue.

    Also, KPs post up attempts were brutal because he got pushed around, not because he was a fish out of water and didn't know how to score down there.
    I agree with your overall point about players generally not changing their playing styles but KP is a bad example lol.

    I think D is right, KP looked like he had no clue what he was doing down there his rookie season and even last year to an extent. He had no footwork to speak of, did one move and chucked it at the rim no matter if it worked or not, and rushed everything. Compared to now where you see one, two, sometimes three moves in succession to freeze or evade the defender as well as being patient and not rushing anything, it's basically like night and day. Even I was saying before the draft that KP probably isn't a go to isolation scorer and would need a point guard to assist him on plays for him to really be elite offensively, so look at what he's doing now without a point guard by himself.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    I agree with your overall point about players generally not changing their playing styles but KP is a bad example lol.

    I think D is right, KP looked like he had no clue what he was doing down there his rookie season and even last year to an extent. He had no footwork to speak of, did one move and chucked it at the rim no matter if it worked or not, and rushed everything. Compared to now where you see one, two, sometimes three moves in succession to freeze or evade the defender as well as being patient and not rushing anything, it's basically like night and day. Even I was saying before the draft that KP probably isn't a go to isolation scorer and would need a point guard to assist him on plays for him to really be elite offensively, so look at what he's doing now without a point guard by himself.
    I actually think you are both right. I think KP had the game but wasn't able to use it. He wasn't confident or comfortable enough with his skills to put them to use... (See where i'm going? ) But now that he's added some strength, understanding and has a couple years under his belt, he's more fully drawing from his skill set.

    Frank will get stronger, more understanding of what he can and can't do, gan confidence and then we will see.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Lol I swear I almost posted a picture of DJ last week after Perry did an interview because I was thinking DJ and Perry looked alike

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