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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I'm not sure. The way I look at it is that you're bringing in a player and hoping he develops into something he's not or never has been. These were the same critiques about him in France. Being able to pass doesn't mean he's a good playmaker. Also, there are guys that are just passive or aggressive by nature and it never changes, or it never changes enough.

    Things like shooting can be improved on. Things like strength can be improved on. The things I'm concerned about him with and have always been concerned with may never be improved on because that goes to who he is as a player not whether he's good or bad at something. That's the difference. We can hope for a Kawhi Leonard type of improvement, but realize how rare that was. I think he can be a good player for this team, but I do question whether he's the PG of the future or not.

    I wouldn't call Hardaway a playmaker by any stretch. The Knicks struggle to generate easy offense. When they get stuck, it's dump it to KP and see what he can do. That's only going to last but so long. Hardaway can create for himself, but the Knicks don't really have anyone that is getting their teammates easy baskets. However, staying with that idea, Frank can move to SG and the Knicks can pair him with another PG or combo guard and that would be a viable solution.
    I agree with u on Hardaway I do not believe his strong suit is play making I think that is something he can occasionally do. Is it possible to develop handles at this age if the answer is yes and he has the work ethic he will be fine. When his ability to handle the ball grows he will gain more confidence in getting in the paint and also finishing. I do not believe we need a Dennis Smith type of aggression at the pg position. I would prefer a Chauncey Billups type. If a handle cannot be developed then we need another PG period.as u cannot keep the defense honest or create consistently for others

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by knickerbockerny View Post
    Lebron pissed me off with the claim that he is the King of New York, if that's the case Steph Curry and KD are the Kings of Ohio... smh
    It is disrespectful and it was meant to be. If the Knicks have a problem with it they should make sure they stop him. If not u will continued to be clowned

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    How can you not love Kanter, "King, queen, princess.." That is some funny stuff. No on talks about Bron like that. And I don't know that I've seen anyone get in Bron's face like that.
    I do wish he had knocked him down in the paint a couple times but I think that will happen next time.

    It's a tough path for us right now. It's easy to get excited about this team but we need to remember it's in build mode. Some choices by the coaches may be because of that.
    I am not trading anyone right now. I'm not even thinking of it. I don't know why people are so anxious to move this guy or that guy to get a pick. Wait. Be patient and see who develops. This team is becoming attractive to FAs an there are a few good SFs on the market in 18 and I think we will have a legit shot at them. If KP continues to grow, Kanter continues t improve his D, Frank begins to find his way offensively and THJ gets consistent, adding that SF will be insane.
    I would really like the FO to see if that guy is already on the roster. Give Doug some more time on the court. See what he can do. I love Grant and Covington but if Doug can prove himself defensively it will be a huge boost.

    I really haven' seen a knicks team this tight since Spree and Camby

    If Willy had Kanter's sack, he'd be starting.
    Do not trade Kanter. This guy is a leader and a presence. And he is producing. Averaging 11 rebounds and 14 points in 25 minutes. I get he's not perfect. But I like him.

    Him and the rook standing up to Princess Lebron. Think Carmelo would have done that? This is a different team.

  4. #364
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    KP had absolutely no semblance of a post or midpost game his rookie season. Saying guys don't develop some of these things simply isn't true.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    KP had absolutely no semblance of a post or midpost game his rookie season. Saying guys don't develop some of these things simply isn't true.
    He didn't really have it last year either. Some people are just too impatient if a rookie doesn't come in blazing like a very small % does.

  6. #366
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    Just take the game as a learning experience. Its so much fun having a real team out there. Game was there, they blew it. Go to the drawing board including Horny (Who made some strange coaching decisions) and kick princess out of NY next time.
    `

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleBuckFaston View Post
    The thing is though that theres been many successful pgs thoughout the years that have taken time to adjust to the nba, most atleast a year and many older than frank..

    Tony Parker, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Rajon Rondo, Eric Bledsoe, Goran Dragic, Ricky Rubio, Sam Cassell, Kyle Lowry, Jrue Holiday.. There was even this guy named Jeff Hornaceck that came in at 23 and took a year or 2 to adjust to the pro game.. Jeff knows better than most which is probably why hes giving Frank a long leash compared to some of the other younger players he coaches..

    You wouldnt have said those players were what they were after there rookie years so idk why you would with Frank.. Especially since hes younger than all of them were..

    Frank and the rest of those guys were team first players who were going to be unselfish until confident enough to get their own..

    Players coming from europe especially have a longer time adjusting due to the longer three point line and style of play..
    You completely missed the point. It's not about improvement.

    Parker was lightening quick and very fast with the ball and that was always his game (getting to the basket and mid range shots).

    Kidd was always the same player, he just developed a jump shot late in his career. Nothing about him as a player and his style of play changed.

    Nash same as Kidd, but just got better at everything he already brought to the table.

    Rondo never could shoot and was always a penetrator and facilitator. Nothing changed about his game besides him getting better.

    Eric Bledsoe played the same brand of basketball since he was in HS. His issue was adapting that to the NBA and playing behind CP3.

    Nothing changed about Dragic or Rubio. They played the same style of basketball since they were overseas.

    Cassell and Lowry were also two guys who just improved on the things they already did. Lowry developed a jump shot as well.

    Jrue Holiday was an All Star at 21 years old. I'm not sure why his name was even brought up.

    It seems like you are arguing something completely different or just misunderstood my post. This isn't about improvement, it's about the type of player he is. Not many players completely change their style of play, they just get better at what they already do.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    KP had absolutely no semblance of a post or midpost game his rookie season. Saying guys don't develop some of these things simply isn't true.
    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    He didn't really have it last year either. Some people are just too impatient if a rookie doesn't come in blazing like a very small % does.
    You're not getting it. KP came in with a dream shake and other post moves. He just wasn't strong enough to hold his position on the block. We're not seeing anything different from KP in terms of who he is as a player. He just got stronger and better.

    It also has nothing to do with coming in and lighting it up. Look at someone like Giannis and even Kobe, they didn't light it up right away so I would never expect Frank to. It's about flashing the ability to do certain things as a PG.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by PewPew View Post
    Just take the game as a learning experience. Its so much fun having a real team out there. Game was there, they blew it. Go to the drawing board including Horny (Who made some strange coaching decisions) and kick princess out of NY next time.
    At least this team was in a contest like this. Last years team would have been blown out from jump. To even come out like we did yesterday for 3 qts, shows just how potent this team can be, how potent our home court can be and sure we lost, but this should get all the players to not buy into hype and keep working.

    By the way. Lee has been a monster the last few games. True pro. Love the fact that Timmy is playing better too.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    He didn't really have it last year either. Some people are just too impatient if a rookie doesn't come in blazing like a very small % does.
    If he isn't good in every game starting right now, he sucks. If his handle isn't good by tomorrow he can't play PG and he will be a role player.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    You're not getting it. KP came in with a dream shake and other post moves. He just wasn't strong enough to hold his position on the block. We're not seeing anything different from KP in terms of who he is as a player. He just got stronger and better.

    It also has nothing to do with coming in and lighting it up. Look at someone like Giannis and even Kobe, they didn't light it up right away so I would never expect Frank to. It's about flashing the ability to do certain things as a PG.
    I think the issue is that some people see that flash and some don't.
    There were plenty who didn't see his defensive ability in the first few games and got upset but they seemed to have calmed down because now they see it.

    I see Frank tentative but I have seen flashes of him getting into the paint and kicking it out or even taking it to the rim like last night. I think he is feeling out his own game and learning how to stay in control yet put his foot on the gas.
    We all know how much faster the NBA is than the euro league. He has to move faster to get the same results. He's capable of moving faster as he has shown on a few occasions but his body and brain need to get hooked up to do it consistently. He isn't there but he will be fine in a year or two




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    You're not getting it. KP came in with a dream shake and other post moves. He just wasn't strong enough to hold his position on the block. We're not seeing anything different from KP in terms of who he is as a player. He just got stronger and better.

    It also has nothing to do with coming in and lighting it up. Look at someone like Giannis and even Kobe, they didn't light it up right away so I would never expect Frank to. It's about flashing the ability to do certain things as a PG.
    That's simply not true. KP had like one dreamshake amongst dozens and dozens and dozens of awful attempts his first couple years. It was ugly, hard to watch, there was barely a foundation, everyone thought his best hope was getting a PG and being a pick and pop extroardinaire (myself included). It was way more than just strength. He didn't have any moves - nothing he could hang his hat on to get buckets 1on1 - just ask Bivory.

    I know what you're trying to say, certain things you can't teach, but I don't think it's accurate when describing a rookie whose hesitant to take the ball in the paint and make plays for himself and others. You can learn that, you can improve that, I'm confident Frank will even if it's done via patience and craftiness instead of blazing downhill speed.

    Frank is never gonna drive to the rack and live at the FT line. But I think he will get in the paint and create eventually. He is always looking to set guys up, he is very patient there, he is still feeling out the NBA caliber defense, speed, size down low to get a comfort level. Awareness on the drive takes some time to figure out when you're not a guy with tunnelvision at the hoop.
    Last edited by D-Leethal; 11-14-2017 at 04:47 PM.

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    That's simply not true. KP had like one dreamshake amongst dozens and dozens and dozens of awful attempts his first couple years. It was ugly, hard to watch, there was barely a foundation, everyone thought his best hope was getting a PG and being a pick and pop extroardinaire (myself included). It was way more than just strength. He didn't have any moves - nothing he could hang his hat on to get buckets 1on1 - just ask Bivory.

    I know what you're trying to say, certain things you can't teach, but I don't think it's accurate when describing a rookie whose hesitant to take the ball in the paint and make plays for himself and others. You can learn that, you can improve that, I'm confident Frank will even if it's done via patience and craftiness instead of blazing downhill speed.

    Frank is never gonna drive to the rack and live at the FT line. But I think he will get in the paint and create eventually. He is always looking to set guys up, he is very patient there, he is still feeling out the NBA caliber defense, speed, size down low to get a comfort level. Awareness on the drive takes some time to figure out when you're not a guy with tunnelvision at the hoop.
    Everything KP is doing now, he's at least flashed. He was fine in the post, just wasn't strong enough to maintain position. He flashed that dream shake several times as a rookie and it wasn't ugly at all and he actually made the shots. You're definitely thinking of something else...you can just Google KP dream shake and you'll see a bunch come up from his rookie season.

    KP wasn't this great one on one player, but he still flashed the ability from time to time. This is all about flashes, not doing it consistently since he is still young. You can point to KP now and basically say, I've seen him do these things before but he couldn't do it consistently or at will.

    KP also flashed that alpha mentality. The Knicks didn't have to train him to be aggressive. It was one of the first things I was looking for when they drafted him because I've seen it with other players and a lot of times it's a quality they either have or don't have. Unfortunately, Frank has always been passive and that was one of the biggest knocks on him throughout the draft process. If it's a confidence thing, then fine, but if it's a personality thing, then he most likely won't change.

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I think the issue is that some people see that flash and some don't.
    There were plenty who didn't see his defensive ability in the first few games and got upset but they seemed to have calmed down because now they see it.

    I see Frank tentative but I have seen flashes of him getting into the paint and kicking it out or even taking it to the rim like last night. I think he is feeling out his own game and learning how to stay in control yet put his foot on the gas.
    We all know how much faster the NBA is than the euro league. He has to move faster to get the same results. He's capable of moving faster as he has shown on a few occasions but his body and brain need to get hooked up to do it consistently. He isn't there but he will be fine in a year or two
    Whoever doubted his defense is silly, he's more advanced on that side of the ball than most rookies throughout history. I definitely see the defense, I just need to see more on offense to let me know he's truly a PG and not a player better suited to play off the ball as a secondary playmaker. He can be good in either role, which is why I'm trying to say it's not about him being good or bad at all. They moved him off the ball in France for a lot of this same reason. Last year, he didn't really play PG too much for these same reasons. If he couldn't do it against less athletic defenders, then naturally it will be harder against bigger, stronger, faster defenders.
    Last edited by smood999; 11-14-2017 at 05:05 PM.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Franked made a nice driving layup yesterday where u can see his insane length. I think he will get to the line just fine later on.

    I don't think you can knock an 18 year old PG for being "passive" in a EURO league dominated by grown men. different game. even Jennings the chucker averaged like 6ppg over there no?

    I see star potential all over the place with Frank.
    You don't have to put up stats to be aggressive. I'm not looking at numbers at all.

    He caught the ball, was by himself, took two dribbles, and laid it up. Who was the closest defender to him? That's definitely a stretch...any NBA player would convert that play the same way.

    As far as star potential, I've only seen it on one side of the court (which is amazing, considering what side it is). I don't think he's done anything offensively for you to believe that.
    Last edited by smood999; 11-14-2017 at 05:08 PM.

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