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Thread: Roy Moore

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    Don't really understand the analogy... I get that HRC is the pick pocket ... who is the rapist again?

    Moore. If both stories are true, Moore molested young girls and Hillary intimidated people accusing her husband of things. These are not equal things IMO
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  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    I am laughing at the idea that you think the disseminator is more important than the sources ... neither of those sources work for the site... they actually work for competing companies

    Your desire to discredit the facts with a LOOKWHOPUBLISHEDTHEARTICLE position only confirms your biases.

    I don't really care who the source of an article is as long as it is factually correct.
    There's a lot to digest in that article.

    This happened in 1999, so at the end of Bill Clinton's presidency. So they ran a story on Bill Clinton possibly being a rapist and then protected Hillary Clinton? Very bizarre. Hillary wasn't considered the air apparent to the presidency at that time, so I don't know why NBC would run a story very damaging to Bill Clinton but then protect Hillary?

    I would very much like to see the full interview.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Eh, I think we are vastly overstating the credibility deficiencies of the mainstream media.

    If you were looking for the most credible reporting, would you go to:

    NBC, ABC, CBS, Washington Post.

    MSNBC, CNN, Huffington Post.

    Daily Caller, Breitbart, Info Wars, Fox News.


    By far the most credibly is still the first group.

    The groupings alone show a bias but that really isn't the point as all of those groups have good and bad ... some more some less.

    The average American relies on the media to provide them with "reporting" unfortunately, that isn't the case any longer as most items disguised as reporting are actually opinion pieces that are used to drive viewership and ultimately the bottom line. The average viewer doesn't have the time to sort through all the BS and then is susceptible to the mantra of someone like Trump who screams fake news and the whataboutisms...

    Beyond HRC being a **** candidate a lot of Trumps appeal was related to the backlash against mainstream media for not going after her on her record... they were lazy... and if the primary process on the Democratic side had been a level playing field rather than a coronation Bernie wins the primary and obviously the Presidency

    The American People got what they deserved with Trump ... a **** show

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Moore. If both stories are true, Moore molested young girls and Hillary intimidated people accusing her husband of things. These are not equal things IMO
    ok... I don't subscribe to moral relativism... both people used their positions of power to squash victims ...

    What I find interesting at this point is that you characterize moore as someone who molested young girls but bill Clinton as someone who was only accused of "doing things"

    making that distinction to me is illogical and simply disingenuous ...

    The facts are straightforward...

    Bill Clinton was accused of rape and sexual misconduct by multiple accusers
    Roy Moore was accused of molestation and I believe assault by multiple accusers

    I believe both sets of women

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    The groupings alone show a bias but that really isn't the point as all of those groups have good and bad ... some more some less.

    The average American relies on the media to provide them with "reporting" unfortunately, that isn't the case any longer as most items disguised as reporting are actually opinion pieces that are used to drive viewership and ultimately the bottom line. The average viewer doesn't have the time to sort through all the BS and then is susceptible to the mantra of someone like Trump who screams fake news and the whataboutisms...

    Beyond HRC being a **** candidate a lot of Trumps appeal was related to the backlash against mainstream media for not going after her on her record... they were lazy... and if the primary process on the Democratic side had been a level playing field rather than a coronation Bernie wins the primary and obviously the Presidency

    The American People got what they deserved with Trump ... a **** show
    First Bolded: What was the bias? I tried to go with mainstream media, leftist sources and right sources. Should CNN be in the mainstream category? I consider them leftist.

    Second Bolded: Many people who say this don't realize that for the majority of articles, they are either reporting or opinion pieces.

    I think part of the problem of the distrust in the media is the illiteracy of the public when it comes to reading news. People don't realize that there are opinion pieces and when they read one, assume it's supposed to be a reporting piece.

    The illiteracy of our populace when it comes to digesting news and information is pretty staggering. It's why fake news and Russia was able to be so effective.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    There's a lot to digest in that article.

    This happened in 1999, so at the end of Bill Clinton's presidency. So they ran a story on Bill Clinton possibly being a rapist and then protected Hillary Clinton? Very bizarre. Hillary wasn't considered the air apparent to the presidency at that time, so I don't know why NBC would run a story very damaging to Bill Clinton but then protect Hillary?

    I would very much like to see the full interview.
    They probably ran it because she was running for Senate in 2000... The story came out about the "War Room" from 1992 and how she basically ran it with stephanopolous and Carville to discredit the women who accused bill.

    It was set up as a puff piece to prop her up... how you can leave out what Isikoff and Myers talk about in that article is mind boggling and really the only thing relevant to her run for Senate

    Anyway, I agree with you... what does NBC have to hide... show the full interview or at least make it available on line.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    They probably ran it because she was running for Senate in 2000... The story came out about the "War Room" from 1992 and how she basically ran it with stephanopolous and Carville to discredit the women who accused bill.

    It was set up as a puff piece to prop her up... how you can leave out what Isikoff and Myers talk about in that article is mind boggling and really the only thing relevant to her run for Senate

    Anyway, I agree with you... what does NBC have to hide... show the full interview or at least make it available on line.
    I completely forgot about that. That makes sense then why they would cover it up then.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    First Bolded: What was the bias? I tried to go with mainstream media, leftist sources and right sources. Should CNN be in the mainstream category? I consider them leftist.

    Second Bolded: Many people who say this don't realize that for the majority of articles, they are either reporting or opinion pieces.

    I think part of the problem of the distrust in the media is the illiteracy of the public when it comes to reading news. People don't realize that there are opinion pieces and when they read one, assume it's supposed to be a reporting piece.

    The illiteracy of our populace when it comes to digesting news and information is pretty staggering. It's why fake news and Russia was able to be so effective.
    maybe I misunderstood your groupings ... I made the assumption that you had listed them by group of credibility ... from most to least... if it was left to right then I apologize ... I still stand by my contention that all groups listed have both good and bad

    As for the opinion pieces vs reporting... I don't disagree that an intelligent viewer can distinguish between the two but what has changed over the last 25 years is the balance... it has gone from 80/20 reporting to 20/80 the other way... the way they disguise it is they start it off as reporting piece but quickly slide into the right / left analysts offering their opinions... not all news stories require a right/left analysis... it is faux balance and only reinforces the right/left marketing strategy of the organizations to drive viewership and ultimately profitability.

    Your last point is spot on but simply nothing more than a byproduct of taking the divisive reporting methodology to its logical conclusion ... creating a public willing to buy almost any conspiracy or disinformation campaign

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    ok... I don't subscribe to moral relativism... both people used their positions of power to squash victims ...

    What I find interesting at this point is that you characterize moore as someone who molested young girls but bill Clinton as someone who was only accused of "doing things"






    making that distinction to me is illogical and simply disingenuous ...

    The facts are straightforward...

    Bill Clinton was accused of rape and sexual misconduct by multiple accusers
    Roy Moore was accused of molestation and I believe assault by multiple accusers

    I believe both sets of women
    B/C the comparison was b/t what Hillary allegedly did to Bill Clinton's accusers and what Moore allegedly did to young girls not b/t what Moore and Bill allegedly did. you are changing the topic.
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  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    B/C the comparison was b/t what Hillary allegedly did to Bill Clinton's accusers and what Moore allegedly did to young girls not b/t what Moore and Bill allegedly did. you are changing the topic.
    I am not changing the topic...

    I am addressing your poor analogy... Pick Pocket vs Rapist ... one is way less extreme than what has been factually reported and one is way more extreme than has been confirmed.

    Of course I have made my position crystal clear

    I think both molested or raped women... I make no distinction... as I said... I believe both groups of women...

    However, I also condemn anyone who tries to discredit either group of women... especially people in power who do it for self advancement / preservation. HRC is no pick pocket... I disagree with your analogy

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    ok... I don't subscribe to moral relativism... both people used their positions of power to squash victims ...

    What I find interesting at this point is that you characterize moore as someone who molested young girls but bill Clinton as someone who was only accused of "doing things"

    making that distinction to me is illogical and simply disingenuous ...

    The facts are straightforward...

    Bill Clinton was accused of rape and sexual misconduct by multiple accusers
    Roy Moore was accused of molestation and I believe assault by multiple accusers

    I believe both sets of women
    But you are trying to equate hillary to moore.

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  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    I agree with you.

    But what does Bill Clinton's transgressions have to do with roy moore's.

    Bill Clinton is the counter to what people have said in that Democrats put their offenders in prison while Republicans defend their offenders (or whatever was specifically said close to that). then dropping Bill Clinton prove that that is false because Bill Clinton was elected President.






    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well ****, you found 2 instances of women lying about accusations in history, so clearly they are all lying about their accusations!
    I provided a wikileaks link of a Podesta email saying "who is in charge of the Trump swift boat project? Needs to be ready, funded and unleashed when we decide -- but not a half assed scramble". that may have ended up being 1 case of many cases. fact is they were planning on lying in a political attack in an email I'm sure they never expected to become public. to me that means anything going forward the Democrats could be planning on lying. anything that could potentially be shady should be questioned. I wouldn't be surprised if the same type of thing happens from the right either.


    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Do you believe the accusers of Harvey Weinstein then? All they are, are accusations.

    I want to know if you're consistent. Do you believe Roy Moore and Harvey Weinstein are both equally innocent?

    any accusation could be questioned and should need more than just "she said" to back it up. that would go for anyone including Moore, Weinstein, Trump, Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, Charlie Sheen, or whoever. the more accusations then the more I would tend to believe the accusers, but just AN accusation on it's own then one should deserve to be innocent until proven guilty.

    it's also more than just an accusation/accusations plural. one should look at the timing. why are these accusations only now coming out against Moore this many years later during a campaign? that alone doesn't mean they're not true, but that should be considered suspicious.

    the more accusations that come out against Moore then the more likely I am to consider he did something wrong and the accusers become more believable.


    how much of this next article changes things, if anything at all.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/media/36...ct-allegations

    Limbaugh: Moore was a Democrat at time of sexual misconduct allegations
    Conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh on Tuesday criticized Republicans for distancing themselves from Alabama GOP Senate candidate Roy Moore, while saying that Moore was a Democrat at the time he allegedly engaged in sexual misconduct with teenage girls.

    “Did you know that before 1992, when a lot of this was going on, that Judge Moore was a Democrat?” Limbaugh said on his radio show. “Nobody said a word.”

    “When he supposedly was attracted to inappropriately-aged girls — he was a Democrat,” Limbaugh added.

    Limbaugh also went after Republicans who have called on Moore to step aside from the race.

    “No matter what the real stories are here, and no matter what the evidence is, these guys, these people on the Republican side, are making it clear they are going to prevent this guy from ever being seated in the United States Senate,” Limbaugh said.

    Moore earned an appointment to the circuit trial court in Etowah County in 1992 after switching his political affiliation from Democrat to Republican, according to Politico.

    Limbaugh’s remarks come after a fifth woman on Monday accused Moore of sexual misconduct when she was a minor.

    Beverly Young Nelson said that Moore, who was serving as the Etowah County district attorney, sexually assaulted her in a diner parking lot in 1977, when she was a 16-year-old high school student.

    Nelson’s allegations followed those in a bombshell Washington Post report last week in which four woman accused Moore of sexual misconduct, including one who accused Moore of inappropriate touching when she was 14 and he was 32.

    Moore has repeatedly denied the allegations, calling them “completely false.”

    Prominent Republicans have called on Moore to step aside from the Alabama Senate race to fill Sen. Luther Strange's seat. Strange was appointed after Jeff Sessions was appointed attorney general.

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) called for Moore to drop out of the race on Monday while Sen. Cory Gardner (R-Colo.), who serves as the chairman of the Senate GOP’s campaign arm, said the Senate should expel Moore if he wins the election.
    at this point regardless of whether Moore is completely innocent of everything, or whether there was some things that he did wrong, or if it's all true.. this has stained him and there will always be this cloud over him even if he was to win. it has likely gotten to a point where it would just be better for him to retreat.
    nobody has really answered to what I asked before. is this current race now just Moore as a Republican VS "X" as a Democrat? I don't think it's fair to just give this election to the Democrat.



  13. #253
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    Aww sorry it's not fair that Moore is a pedophile and the GOP electorate decided to pick him. Does anyone really give a **** whether someone thinks it's for. If you pick a pedophile prepare to lose. Maybe some of those family values bastards will reflect inward and see how they have failed. Most will say that Democrats are worse than pedophiles though. Thankfully voters in other states might have two brain cells to rub together those and Moore will make them question the stupidity of voting for someone because your party picks them. So if little baby Republicans want to not get tarred and feathered for nominating a pedophile maybe try not doing that next time.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    When was it that your sense of humor fell off?

    A broader question. Why won't everyone just let me and flea rip on each other?
    I come here to be grumpy. Whatever humor I had when discussing politics doesn't really remain. I expect dumb comments from plenty of Libs now. Trump's melted so many of our brains.

    Just wanted to make sure progressives aren't suddenly worshipping at the altar of our intelligence community. Moving on...
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  15. #255
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    I think if the accusers spoke up again and tried to get things moving the public would be more receptive to the Bill Clinton reckoning. This is a unique climate right now and the fact is left, right, up, down, whatever, we didn't care as much 5, 10, 20 ad infinitum years ago. I'm happy we've arrived here and hope we keep flying forward. Expose everyone. Stop letting powerful men get away with being ****** sexual monsters.

    And shouts to feminists for always being the driving force trying to bring these issues to light.
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