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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    This is an incredibly dumb way to look at replay. If it takes multiple angles to get the call right, who cares? The point is to get it right.
    Just ****ing stupid. But you're always right, so I apologize. You know everything because you pitched in little league.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    If its that close... I give it to the umpire...

    Let's face it.. if the players can be a success getting a hit 1 out of 3 tries.. Why can't the umpire be given something so close you need to go frame by frame to see if he's wrong...

    Personally.. It detracts... if your worried about being right... go into Mathmatics... This is life... nothing is every 100% right in life... because even the best thing for you could be wrong.
    My 3 Favorite teams...
    1. The NY Yankees
    2. The Colorado Rockies
    3. Whoever is playing the Red Sox tonight!

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfrap View Post
    Analytics may have built the team... but the players still have to go out there and perform.. I've never seen any statistics perform in any sport.

    I've also never seen a number cruncher play the game either..

    What it came down to here... The players performed... the analytics were only in the preparation... the actual doing.. pure players performing.
    I do love seeing this kind of response; the thing is, you know you are wrong.

    The Dodgers specifically sat down with Darvish when he came over and altered both his pitch selection and location based on a statistical analysis of his 2017 campaign to that point. The result was one of the best K/9 stretches of his career.

    The Astros tore both Judge and Sanchez apart using the stats; they found their weaknesses and reduced two of the most potent 2017 bats into strike-out machines. They literally neutralized Judge and sent him back to his 2016 form for all but two games.

    Every team is employing shifts to deal with ground-ball hitters based on the stats.

    Batters have shifted to a fly-ball heavy approach becasue the stats show that is how to get around the shifts and produce more runs.

    No kidding the analysts don't play the game.

    Baseball teams pay millions of dollars on top-notch analytics departments and MLB has invested millions into statistical programs like StatCast specifically so players do not have to do that work.

    Likely one of the reasons Joe is not with this team anymore is that, at times, he seemed willing to "let it ride" because he trusted his players more than he trusted the numbers.

    There was no reason Judge, batting under 0.200 and approaching 50% strike-outs should have still been in the two-hole by Game 4 of the ALCS for instance.

    The numbers said he was beat. Joe trusted him to somehow power through.

    That did not work.
    We’re pointing out that these statistics breed false narratives, and we value the truth. This isn’t about replacing old numbers with new numbers, or attempting to dissuade anyone from enjoying the aesthetics of the game. It is simply about telling the average fan about the reality of what actually happened on the field. The “Holy Trinity” of baseball statistics fail at this most basic task, and so they are not worth deifying any longer. - Dave Cameron

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceHawk-181 View Post
    I do love seeing this kind of response; the thing is, you know you are wrong.

    The Dodgers specifically sat down with Darvish when he came over and altered both his pitch selection and location based on a statistical analysis of his 2017 campaign to that point. The result was one of the best K/9 stretches of his career.

    The Astros tore both Judge and Sanchez apart using the stats; they found their weaknesses and reduced two of the most potent 2017 bats into strike-out machines. They literally neutralized Judge and sent him back to his 2016 form for all but two games.

    Every team is employing shifts to deal with ground-ball hitters based on the stats.

    Batters have shifted to a fly-ball heavy approach becasue the stats show that is how to get around the shifts and produce more runs.

    No kidding the analysts don't play the game.

    Baseball teams pay millions of dollars on top-notch analytics departments and MLB has invested millions into statistical programs like StatCast specifically so players do not have to do that work.

    Likely one of the reasons Joe is not with this team anymore is that, at times, he seemed willing to "let it ride" because he trusted his players more than he trusted the numbers.

    There was no reason Judge, batting under 0.200 and approaching 50% strike-outs should have still been in the two-hole by Game 4 of the ALCS for instance.

    The numbers said he was beat. Joe trusted him to somehow power through.

    That did not work.
    As for the bolded, they old eye test can tell you those things. I won't dispute that if you tell Yu to throw certain pitches that are working and you have the stats to back it up, it makes it more apparent but with Judge and sanchez, wouldn't the stats tell them that they were being pitched a certain way and they should look for those pitches? Both kids were pulling off the ball and swinging at low and away breaking balls. You don't need stats to tell you that's where they were weak. You also happened to have pitchers who could execute those pitches and didn't make mistakes.

    I would personally rather live and die with a manager who trusted his players over numbers, because when you trust the number over the player, you are reducing the player's identity, to that number.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceHawk-181 View Post
    I do love seeing this kind of response; the thing is, you know you are wrong.

    The Dodgers specifically sat down with Darvish when he came over and altered both his pitch selection and location based on a statistical analysis of his 2017 campaign to that point. The result was one of the best K/9 stretches of his career.

    The Astros tore both Judge and Sanchez apart using the stats; they found their weaknesses and reduced two of the most potent 2017 bats into strike-out machines. They literally neutralized Judge and sent him back to his 2016 form for all but two games.

    Every team is employing shifts to deal with ground-ball hitters based on the stats.

    Batters have shifted to a fly-ball heavy approach becasue the stats show that is how to get around the shifts and produce more runs.

    No kidding the analysts don't play the game.

    Baseball teams pay millions of dollars on top-notch analytics departments and MLB has invested millions into statistical programs like StatCast specifically so players do not have to do that work.

    Likely one of the reasons Joe is not with this team anymore is that, at times, he seemed willing to "let it ride" because he trusted his players more than he trusted the numbers.

    There was no reason Judge, batting under 0.200 and approaching 50% strike-outs should have still been in the two-hole by Game 4 of the ALCS for instance.

    The numbers said he was beat. Joe trusted him to somehow power through.

    That did not work.
    You call me wrong.. then promptly explained exactly how I'm right...

    Analytics can help you prepare and plan... but the players have to go out and execute.. plain and simple.. the players have to perform exactly to the plan or all that work and planning is for naught. If the pitcher misses his spot, the hitter can hit away from the shift, or maybe the ball is in the hitters wheelhouse rather than his weak spot... The players have to perform to win.. all the planning is useless if they don't.

    THANKS! Nice to be proven correct.

    Oh, and it's not Joe trusting him.. It's joe letting him learn something for the future. He's a rook.. and the other team adjusted.. Analytics aside, that's been happening since the 1800's.. The kids needs to learn not only about that.. but how to do that himself.. and alas, as a player you don't get to learn that by watching...
    My 3 Favorite teams...
    1. The NY Yankees
    2. The Colorado Rockies
    3. Whoever is playing the Red Sox tonight!

  5. #50
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    Dec 2009
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    6,971
    Yankees are putting the hiring of a manager on hold??? It's because they totally F'd up and fired one of the games great managers without having a freakin plan of what to do next. Unforced error by Cashman.


    Estrada 2nd base
    Torres SS
    Judge RF
    Sanchez C
    Bird 1st base
    Frazier LF
    Andujar 3rd base
    Fowler CF

    Bench: Wade and Austin

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Yankees are putting the hiring of a manager on hold??? It's because they totally F'd up and fired one of the games great managers without having a freakin plan of what to do next. Unforced error by Cashman.
    I said very similar a while back. They may live to regret the decision.
    “Farts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” — Aldous Huxley
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Albert Einstein



  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    I said very similar a while back. They may live to regret the decision.
    I've said the same thing too...

    Has not helped that Girardi is the very poster-child for the manager they have announced they are looking for...
    My 3 Favorite teams...
    1. The NY Yankees
    2. The Colorado Rockies
    3. Whoever is playing the Red Sox tonight!

  8. #53
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    Now that Beltran is retired. I wonder if the Yankees will interview him for manager. Perhaps, he's the secret interview on Thursday.

    Of course, it would be hard to avoid staring at his mole during the post game interviews.

  9. #54
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    id love for it to be beltran, that would make me happy

  10. #55
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    I think mangers are a bit overrated in general. They don't hit, run and throw the ball

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    I think mangers are a bit overrated in general. They don't hit, run and throw the ball

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    It is especially in the AL because there are hardly any double switches, no high leverage hitting situations where you have to decide whether to lift a pitcher or not, etc.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    As for the bolded, they old eye test can tell you those things. I won't dispute that if you tell Yu to throw certain pitches that are working and you have the stats to back it up, it makes it more apparent but with Judge and sanchez, wouldn't the stats tell them that they were being pitched a certain way and they should look for those pitches? Both kids were pulling off the ball and swinging at low and away breaking balls. You don't need stats to tell you that's where they were weak. You also happened to have pitchers who could execute those pitches and didn't make mistakes.

    I would personally rather live and die with a manager who trusted his players over numbers, because when you trust the number over the player, you are reducing the player's identity, to that number.
    It certainly helps that teams like the Dodgers or Astros were working with some of the best pitchers in the business; you need to be an elite talent to exploit the weakness of elite hitters.

    But the idea that you should "trust" a guy over his numbers is just plain dumb.

    Look at our mid-season pick up of Todd Frazier.

    He is a gritty and talented veteran with great presence.

    And despite that the numbers tell the story of an increasingly vulnerable bat that produces infield-flyballs at astounding rates who only produces solid run-generation if he can successfully put the ball in the air.

    Ergo, the issues with Todd overall.

    You can trust the guy but at the end of the day the numbers are the unemotional results of trusting that player.

    You can always hope that, in the moment, guys beat the odds, but the house always wins in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by bfrap View Post
    You call me wrong.. then promptly explained exactly how I'm right...

    Analytics can help you prepare and plan... but the players have to go out and execute.. plain and simple.. the players have to perform exactly to the plan or all that work and planning is for naught. If the pitcher misses his spot, the hitter can hit away from the shift, or maybe the ball is in the hitters wheelhouse rather than his weak spot... The players have to perform to win.. all the planning is useless if they don't.

    THANKS! Nice to be proven correct.

    Oh, and it's not Joe trusting him.. It's joe letting him learn something for the future. He's a rook.. and the other team adjusted.. Analytics aside, that's been happening since the 1800's.. The kids needs to learn not only about that.. but how to do that himself.. and alas, as a player you don't get to learn that by watching...
    Yeah, not sure who is arguing that analytics teams are the ones who play the game...weird strawman argument you are having with yourself there.

    Here is the thing; hitters are not going the other way to beat the shift.

    They are not dropping down bunts and forcing the defense to adjust.

    They are just trying to pull the ball harder thus the fly-ball spike.

    If it was just that easy for a guy to go the other way why is it some of the greatest sluggers that the Yankees have had (Giambi, Shef, Teix) just could not manage to do it?

    Because their swing produces a certain kind of result...and they are not tweaking their swings to beat the shifting.

    Which is why shifting has gone through the roof. Across the league.

    As far as Judge and off-season experience.

    On the one hand, definitely. Judge needs to be in those situations and learn.

    On the other hand it is the manager's job to prioritize the team win in a Game 6 or 7 situation that can ticket them to a World Series over the momentary hope that a guy hitting under 0.200 and striking out nearly half of his at-bats is suddenly going to turn it around.

    Joe hoped that his line-up would wake up and break through.

    That hope helped to ensure that Carlos Beltran retired with a World Series Ring.
    We’re pointing out that these statistics breed false narratives, and we value the truth. This isn’t about replacing old numbers with new numbers, or attempting to dissuade anyone from enjoying the aesthetics of the game. It is simply about telling the average fan about the reality of what actually happened on the field. The “Holy Trinity” of baseball statistics fail at this most basic task, and so they are not worth deifying any longer. - Dave Cameron

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceHawk-181 View Post
    It certainly helps that teams like the Dodgers or Astros were working with some of the best pitchers in the business; you need to be an elite talent to exploit the weakness of elite hitters.

    But the idea that you should "trust" a guy over his numbers is just plain dumb.

    Look at our mid-season pick up of Todd Frazier.

    He is a gritty and talented veteran with great presence.

    And despite that the numbers tell the story of an increasingly vulnerable bat that produces infield-flyballs at astounding rates who only produces solid run-generation if he can successfully put the ball in the air.

    Ergo, the issues with Todd overall.

    You can trust the guy but at the end of the day the numbers are the unemotional results of trusting that player.

    You can always hope that, in the moment, guys beat the odds, but the house always wins in the end.


    Yeah, not sure who is arguing that analytics teams are the ones who play the game...weird strawman argument you are having with yourself there.

    Here is the thing; hitters are not going the other way to beat the shift.

    They are not dropping down bunts and forcing the defense to adjust.

    They are just trying to pull the ball harder thus the fly-ball spike.

    If it was just that easy for a guy to go the other way why is it some of the greatest sluggers that the Yankees have had (Giambi, Shef, Teix) just could not manage to do it?

    Because their swing produces a certain kind of result...and they are not tweaking their swings to beat the shifting.

    Which is why shifting has gone through the roof. Across the league.

    As far as Judge and off-season experience.

    On the one hand, definitely. Judge needs to be in those situations and learn.

    On the other hand it is the manager's job to prioritize the team win in a Game 6 or 7 situation that can ticket them to a World Series over the momentary hope that a guy hitting under 0.200 and striking out nearly half of his at-bats is suddenly going to turn it around.

    Joe hoped that his line-up would wake up and break through.

    That hope helped to ensure that Carlos Beltran retired with a World Series Ring.
    In the immortal words of the great Ted Williams (the Victim of the first shift.. done in the world Series with the Cards)... He's could have easily hit the ball the other way but didn't because of his ego....

    The guys you named (at least Tex and Giambi) only became dead pull hitting lefties after coming to the Yanks.. that short porch changed their way of hitting...

    Tex in his final season did start hitting the other way and found success when he did... Let's face it.. Every left-hand power hitter the Yanks have signed has become a dead pull hitter within a season.. Giambi loved Oakland because that stadium was so symmetrical that it helped hitting to all fields... then he came here and lost that.. Funny, he came to Coors and started hitting to all fields again...

    The only top LH hitter to stay hitting to all fields in Yankee Uni's... Robbie "The Traitor" Cano... That short right field porch makes too many hitters stupid...

    Still, all of the hitters you named have 1 thing in common.. They refused to change for the shift simply becaus of their EGO.. not because they couldn't...
    My 3 Favorite teams...
    1. The NY Yankees
    2. The Colorado Rockies
    3. Whoever is playing the Red Sox tonight!

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by infernoscurse View Post
    id love for it to be beltran, that would make me happy
    He said he's interested

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Yankees are putting the hiring of a manager on hold??? It's because they totally F'd up and fired one of the games great managers without having a freakin plan of what to do next. Unforced error by Cashman.
    WRONG!!! It's on hold because Cashman is attending the GM's meeting and is not conducting interviews during that time. However, feel free to make up more nonsense as you see fit.
    The REAL DEAL Yankee fan

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