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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    With the over-reliance on analytics seems to me a manager's role is being seriously diminished. If you allow "the numbers" to dictate the lineup, batting order, pitching match ups, defensive strategy ect. what is left for the manager? GM's controlling the game from the FO.

    The game is dynamic and played on the field!
    Analytics aren't as simple as you make them. There's so much interpretation and filtering for them to dictate the things you say. There's a great deal in subjectivity in applying them.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Analytics aren't as simple as you make them. There's so much interpretation and filtering for them to dictate the things you say. There's a great deal in subjectivity in applying them.
    Interpretation and subjectivity? Even more reason to question the over reliance on the data. Just who interprets the data? Who's lead do they follow?

    Never suggested they were simple, however there is an emerging and growing trend of reliance, even over reliance on the data, to a point they are now dictating preference in a manager and style of managing.
    “Farts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” — Aldous Huxley
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Albert Einstein



  3. #18
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    Analytics are subjective? Now I'm even more confused.
    How can the application of a system of statistical analytics be subjective? If the numbers don't lie, why deviate?

    Or do they lie?

    Like Doc, I think they have use but such reliance on a flawed numerical code is silly.

    Pick a guy that you think connects with the clubhouse and has some understanding of the numbers and knows when to use them and when to use his instincts.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  4. #19
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    Pedrique as manager, Matsui as bench coach and Ichiro as hitting coach and you get all the international players.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Analytics are subjective? Now I'm even more confused.
    How can the application of a system of statistical analytics be subjective? If the numbers don't lie, why deviate?

    Or do they lie?

    Like Doc, I think they have use but such reliance on a flawed numerical code is silly.

    Pick a guy that you think connects with the clubhouse and has some understanding of the numbers and knows when to use them and when to use his instincts.
    numbers don't lie... as long as you look at them properly... If you are looking at them to predict the future... good luck... If you are looking at them to tell you what happened in the past, they are always correct.

    The problem is; using history to predict the future is wise, it's far from perfect.
    My 3 Favorite teams...
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfrap View Post
    numbers don't lie... as long as you look at them properly... If you are looking at them to predict the future... good luck... If you are looking at them to tell you what happened in the past, they are always correct.

    The problem is; using history to predict the future is wise, it's far from perfect.
    I fully agree!




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I fully agree!
    I do as well.

    The problem is the numbers are being used as predictive measures, and have become a centerpiece in many (most) FO approach to significant aspects of the game, from personnel decisions to on field tactics and strategy.
    “Farts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” — Aldous Huxley
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Albert Einstein



  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    With the over-reliance on analytics seems to me a manager's role is being seriously diminished. If you allow "the numbers" to dictate the lineup, batting order, pitching match ups, defensive strategy ect. what is left for the manager? GM's controlling the game from the FO.

    The game is dynamic and played on the field!
    No one said that the Yankees are looking for a robot to manage the team. Actually it seems the rift between Girardi and Cashman was his connection to the clubhouse and concern about leading a young team forward. Seems to me Cashman is pretty big on the human element.

    I'm sure he wants someone who can understand and utilize the data properly. The data is going to be right more often than the eye test or going with your gut. So while the gut feelings and eye test moves will be right some of the time, the data will be proven to be right more often. Baseball will always have a human element to it and managers will always have some say over how they use the data given to them.

    Seems to me Cashman is looking for the right balance of analytical manager who has a solid understanding and connection to the players on his team. Not all or nothing.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    I do as well.

    The problem is the numbers are being used as predictive measures, and have become a centerpiece in many (most) FO approach to significant aspects of the game, from personnel decisions to on field tactics and strategy.
    What should be used in their place in evaluating the future potential of a player or how well a player is predicted to play moving forward? It's not as if the human element has been removed completely.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    I do as well.

    The problem is the numbers are being used as predictive measures, and have become a centerpiece in many (most) FO approach to significant aspects of the game, from personnel decisions to on field tactics and strategy.
    Absolutely. Sometimes the time to do something is exactly when the numbers say you shouldn't.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees 1903 View Post
    What should be used in their place in evaluating the future potential of a player or how well a player is predicted to play moving forward? It's not as if the human element has been removed completely.

    It's getting there




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees 1903 View Post
    No one said that the Yankees are looking for a robot to manage the team. Actually it seems the rift between Girardi and Cashman was his connection to the clubhouse and concern about leading a young team forward. Seems to me Cashman is pretty big on the human element.

    I'm sure he wants someone who can understand and utilize the data properly. The data is going to be right more often than the eye test or going with your gut. So while the gut feelings and eye test moves will be right some of the time, the data will be proven to be right more often. Baseball will always have a human element to it and managers will always have some say over how they use the data given to them.

    Seems to me Cashman is looking for the right balance of analytical manager who has a solid understanding and connection to the players on his team. Not all or nothing.
    Maybe not a robot, but certainly a "yes man" that views the data in a way Cashman and crew are interpreting. A person "more" aligned with their reading of the data. It seems they would like to use data more proactively to implement on field decisions.

    I thought Joe handled the kids and the clubhouse well. I can base my opinion on available data, ie. the media reports. I don't recall major issues in the clubhouse or player rebellions spilling over for public consumption. If their was a mutiny of sorts Joe deserves major kudos for keeping it in house and under wrap for his entire tenure.

    The data is "right" for past performance, not completely reliable as a predictive tool. Imo that is the direction it's been heading. The Red Sox had Bill James in house. Last season they pulled in the reins on the analytics dept in favor of more human scouting following dreadful finishes, they're just going to deemphasize stats and give more credence to old school scouting. If the Bill james contingent can see it why not the rest of the league? Or are they?
    “Farts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” — Aldous Huxley
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Albert Einstein



  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees 1903 View Post
    No one said that the Yankees are looking for a robot to manage the team. Actually it seems the rift between Girardi and Cashman was his connection to the clubhouse and concern about leading a young team forward. Seems to me Cashman is pretty big on the human element.

    I'm sure he wants someone who can understand and utilize the data properly. The data is going to be right more often than the eye test or going with your gut. So while the gut feelings and eye test moves will be right some of the time, the data will be proven to be right more often. Baseball will always have a human element to it and managers will always have some say over how they use the data given to them.

    Seems to me Cashman is looking for the right balance of analytical manager who has a solid understanding and connection to the players on his team. Not all or nothing.
    What you describe is what many of the players used to describe Joe.

    I've heard the communications problems were not in the clubhouse.. but between Joe and the FO.

    When it comes to managing, you can't be all analytics or all feel.. you need to have a balance.. That was Joe to a T.

    as I said before.. I pity the guy to follow him. This is NY, and coming off a 90+ win season, NY fans won't be happy with anything less. Joe never had a losing season in NY... Whoever they get to replace him, He won't get a mulligan if they don't win at least the 1st WC and advance into the playoffs... Joe got within 1 win from a WS appearance in a season that most in the media felt was NOT even going to be a .500+ season. Thems some big shoes to fill and in NY, the fans will accept nothing less.
    My 3 Favorite teams...
    1. The NY Yankees
    2. The Colorado Rockies
    3. Whoever is playing the Red Sox tonight!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees 1903 View Post
    What should be used in their place in evaluating the future potential of a player or how well a player is predicted to play moving forward? It's not as if the human element has been removed completely.
    IDK....how about human interaction, observation, maybe some old school scouting? There ya go...what a novel concept actually scout players and trust what your trained eyes report.
    “Farts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” — Aldous Huxley
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Albert Einstein



  15. #30
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    What about Dave Righetti for manager?

    A former Yankee and would be a fan favorite...
    Nick

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