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Thread: 2018

  1. #46
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    I would argue pass rusher is more difficult to find than corner, especially in the draft. I think you can find more diamond in the rough types at corner later in the draft. A lot of the top pass rushers were high picks and most of the good ones, especially edge guys, seem to be at least top 50 picks.

    Itís far from scientific, but if we look at defensive ends or linebackers who primarily rush the passer in the nfl top 100 list, it goes Miller, Mack, Watt, Beasley, Bennett, clowney, avril, wake, Houston, Orakpo, clay, Chandler Jones, Griffin, Campbell, Brandon Graham, and Bosa (not sure of you count Dontía Hightower or not.) Bennett and wake were undrafted, Houston and Avril were 3rd rounders, and the rest were 1st or 2nd rounders, many of whom were taken in the top 15 or so picks. Again, thereís issues with the list, but if we sort of ignore those issues, the point remains.

    Likewise, 10 corners made the list. 4 of the 10 were outside of the first 3 rounds in the draft, compared to 2 of 16 for pass rushers. I get having beef with the list, but as a whole, I think itís easier to find a serviceable corner late than it is to find a pass rusher. Both require athletic freaks, but to me a corner can get away with being undersized if heís hyper athletic. A pass rusher needs good speed and strength.

    Also, mediocre at best is probably generous to our tight ends. At this point, without researching the entire league, I have to imagine we may the worst tight end group in the league, but itís gotta be bottom 5 at best.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 12-18-2017 at 10:16 PM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdh09e44 View Post
    I doubt we even draft an RB. Williams and Jones look the part for real now. I was just spitballing when i said we should get mccoy or hyde etc.
    random note, but im really curious to see what ingram does on the market. wasnt he set to be a FA?

  3. #48
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    I think heís only a free agent if he makes the all pro team. Iím not sure the exact language, so I donít know if itís just first team or any team, but thatís his out. Otherwise heís still under contract.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigCheese12 View Post
    It's also time to start thinking about some more WR's too.

    Would have been nice to address this the prior draft...some of us were clamoring for this while being told we were "loaded" at WR.

  5. #50
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    I think a lot of us have had receiver as an option for a few years. I do recall quite a bit of a conversation on receivers last year in the draft (especially when their were rumors of Corey davis falling). Part of the problem is that we havenít had the luxury in recent years of spending picks on WRs lately, since we need to spend high draft assets on defenders.

  6. #51
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    I find it highly unlikely we go out and sign a mid level WR. It would make so much sense tho. Jordy is most likely not gonna be able to be a true down field threat anymore. I still think Cobb has a future here. I really hope they restructure and extend him.
    Adams is awesome but we need one more guy imo. We need a 1a or 1b, or a #2, whatever you wanna call it.

    It's crazy how they try and find depth thru Undrafted Free agents and a few late round fliers. Obviously Allison just fumbled away the season but even before that he hadnt done much except catching a gem from Rodgers vs the Bengals. Is he really a true contigency plan if Jordy or Adams go down next season? I feel like this team assumes too much as far as how players will develop. They NEED to start going into the season with more certainty in some positions. This low risk stuff isnt working.

    I wonder what a guy like Allen Robinson will get ? Jags arent really missing him and a few other guys have stepped up.

    Jordan Matthews Terrelle Pryor Sammy Watkins???

    lol zero chance they even consider it for a second. so unfortunate we dont have a team that tries to do anything in the offseason

  7. #52
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    Problem with those guys is some of those guys are more name than anything. Jordan Matthews is solid but never spectacular and hasnít an injury history. Watkins has a pretty scary injury history too, but has more talent. And I donít think Rodgers would like a Pryor type. Rodgers wants reliable guys who consistently are in the right spot on routes. I donít think Pryor fits that mold.

    Robinson is interesting. Heck of a physical talent whoís always had an underwhelming qb.

    If the price is right, a John brown would be intriguing. Or even mike Wallace on a one year deal in a similar role. Weíve never really had a true burner. Might add an interesting element to the offense.

  8. #53
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    There is basically zero chance we bring back Cobb and Nelson. We are going to resign Adams and we are already paying more for recieving than any team in the NFL. We cannot afford to have 3 highly paid recievers. There's actually a decent chance that both Cobb and Nelson get released or restructured. They are not productive enough to justify what we're paying them.

    I think its obvious Matthews is gone after the year. He's overpaid and will cost us nothing if we release him. We do need to find someone to replace him, but given his health and lack of productivity we need to find a good replacement regardless. We should have the money to be aggressive in free agency and I'd like to see us go all out towards the defense. I don't believe we need to spend a lot on recievers in order to have success throwing the ball with Rodgers, and I'm confident that an increased role from Allison would make him a sufficient #3 or even #2 next season (though we'll need someone quick to play the slot, Trevor Davis?).

    I'd like to see a different strategy with this roster completely, where we spend big and focus on putting a lock down defense on the field and consider the offense (outside of Rodgers and Adams) a secondary need. I think if we truly consider Rodgers elite he doesn't need expensive weapons in order to produce. Young, cost effective talent should be fine. Draft a tight end early, and keep the offensive line decent enough so that he's not taking unneccesary hits. Young running backs are fine, and replace them when their rookie deals are up.

  9. #54
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    Itís super early, and thereís guys that will get cut. So itís probably a little dangerous to speculate, but itís nof likely going to be a crazy strong market for defenders, especially if we stay 3-4 (with or without dom itís a possibility.). And corner isnít crazy strong either.

  10. #55
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    As of right now, the top corners available are Trumaine Johnson, Patrick Robinson, prince amukamara, Malcolm Butler, vontae Davis and Morris Claiborne. All of those guys have warts, and most would likely be a number 1 on our team, but are any of those guys the one to flip this defense. Probably not. I wouldnít be surprised to see a few names added to that list, like Josh Norman, but who knows.

    And itís even bleaker at 3-4 olb. If we switch to a 4-3, thereís a few ends whoís contracts are up, mainly ansah and Lawrence, who would obviously be enticing, but Iím guessing neither sniffs free agency. To me, Iím convinced clay is on the roster next year. I actually think they extend him a year or two, which allows them to move some money around and lower his cap hit.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    As of right now, the top corners available are Trumaine Johnson, Patrick Robinson, prince amukamara, Malcolm Butler, vontae Davis and Morris Claiborne. All of those guys have warts, and most would likely be a number 1 on our team, but are any of those guys the one to flip this defense. Probably not. I wouldnít be surprised to see a few names added to that list, like Josh Norman, but who knows.

    And itís even bleaker at 3-4 olb. If we switch to a 4-3, thereís a few ends whoís contracts are up, mainly ansah and Lawrence, who would obviously be enticing, but Iím guessing neither sniffs free agency. To me, Iím convinced clay is on the roster next year. I actually think they extend him a year or two, which allows them to move some money around and lower his cap hit.

    I kind of like Rashaan Melvin as a mid level FA CB... in the same vein as Marcus Cooper (thought he was a late bloomer, was wrong) last year...

    and unfortunately we really have no leverage to get Matthews at a lower cost... if we released him he'd probably cash in on a weak 3-4 OLB class...unfortunately you either cut your losses and lose him, or pay what he's due... unless he personally has some sort of loyalty and desire to retire a Packer...
    Last edited by Richard Mitten; 12-21-2017 at 05:36 PM.

  12. #57
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    Itís not really that much of a leverage thing. Itís similar to the Tom Brady contracts. Restructuring and lowering a cap hit isnít the same thing as taking money away. You simply convert some to a signing bonus, which he still gets up front, but it moves his cap number around.

    Like a restructure of 2 years for $16 mill, with $8 mill of that being a singing bonus and annual salaries of $2 and $6 mill still gets him $10 mill up front. But if takes his cap hit down to $6 mill.

  13. #58
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    yeah... i get the restructuring... and that's fine if Matthews wants to play for $5mil in 2019... but i would think he knows, or at least thinks, he would get more than $5mil in 2019 somewhere else... and with a restructure, that cap hit for 2019 is $10mil, with $4mil in dead money if you cut him... but i could get on board with a restructure/extension... you could do the same with Nelson and Cobb...

    #12 could restructure too, cut his cap number to $11mil and change in 2018, have a cap of $30mil in 2019, and extend at that point, i mean he knows he'd get it (the extension)... but would he accept a restructure? i don't know... if i were him i would do it on the condition i get to choose where that almost $10mil goes... maybe toward Jimmy Graham, not $10mil, but 7 maybe 8...

  14. #59
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    I could see us bringing back Matthews on a restructure. I think we have to target the same thing with Nelson. I think Cobb is likely gone. I don't think we can bring back any of them without changing their contract.

    It also sounds like Dom is going to be gone. McCarthy didn't give him a very optimistic outlook. I'd like TT gone too but I don't see that happening. TT is basically his own boss, so removing him takes a lot.

    I think we could drastically improve at corner this off-season. I'm looking at younger players who are decent but not necessarily top tier guys. Randall and King should continue to get time, so we really only need 1 more decent corner. Bethel and Hayden are guys I'd consider.

    OLB looks bleak, but I'm not going to speculate on that until we figure out what happens with Dom. I think OLB is a position we could strengthem through the draft. I also wouldn't mind brining back Ahmad Brooks. I think Part of our pressure issue is the DC. No one is fooled by out blitz packages. Do we have a single sack this season from the defensive backfield? I can't remember one. I don't think any of our safeties have any sacks so maybe a corner? To have none, that's a DC problem.

  15. #60
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    To me, you almost have to bring back Matthews just because of depth on the team. I have to imagine we draft a pass rusher early in the next draft, but I donít know that I trust a rookie right away. So Matthews almost needs to be back for at least a year.

    I know itís not perfect, but bethel rated out as pff 108th corner this year and Hayden was 97th. Like I said, pff isnít perfect, but directionally, they are usually decent, and thatís not a good look for those two. Melvin graded out much better.

    I would like to sign a corner as well. Drafting one wouldnít hurt either, but if we sign a decent one, then FA, king, Randal and Rollins isnít a terrible group assuming the FA isnít awful. That might allow us to draft wr or tight end earlier as well.

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