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Thread: Jimmy G Traded

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    The Browns were set to give the Bengals a very early 2nd and a very early 3rd for McCarron, a RFA next year, so they were ready to do that for what amounts to one year. See Butler last year...

    The league knew Jimmy wouldn't be a Patriot next year? Did Bill? Apparently not. Otherwise he would have traded for more at the last draft...but for some reason he didn't have much of a dialog with the Browns...or this past deadline if he had only talked to them again. He didn't have a problem talking to them about Collins. Face it, he botched the QB situation this year, but he's not taking questions. LOL! You'd better hope Jimmy and Brissette both turn out to be average Qbs or you'll be hoping for a do-over that won't be coming.
    You obviously have it all figured out... not sure why you're not the GM / Coach.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosston View Post
    You obviously have it all figured out... not sure why you're not the GM / Coach.

    I live in Florida...too much of a commute to Foxboro and I wouldn't work for any other team.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    I live in Florida...too much of a commute to Foxboro and I wouldn't work for any other team.
    Can you provide proof that NE was ever offered more than what they received?

    I'd rather have $100 in my pocket than a promise of $10,000.00.
    Last edited by Bosston; 11-07-2017 at 01:15 PM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosston View Post
    Can you provide proof that NE was ever offered more than what they received?

    I'd rather have $100 in my pocket than a promise of $10,000.00.
    LOL! The Pats supposedly said Jimmy wasn't getting traded for as many as four #1s according to Schefter so that effectively killed all trade talk at the draft. Who knows what they could have gotten if they had the foresight to know Jimmy had to get traded at the deadline this year? As Bill described the situation.

    Now the excuse is they sustained the Jimmy train as long as they could LOL! That's Bill-speak for covering up a gaff...but he's not taking questions.

    However,

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the very high 2nd and a very high 3rd the Browns offered for McCarron is more than the Pats got from the Niners for Jimmy who gave up a very high 2nd. I'd bet the Browns would have even sent more for him. Plus the only reason they had to get Hoyer released in a wink-wink deal is because BB traded BOTH backups and shot himself in the foot when he did it.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    The Niners might squeeze out some wins with Jimmy and lower the value of the pick.

    Yup, as predicted.

    BB's wonderful trade with the Niners at the deadline is now the 40th overall pick.

    What a moronic trade. Belichick knew he had a franchise Qb but he gifts him to the Niners for a 2nd that could drop more next week....all because he needed Hoyer LOL!

    Psst...hey Bill, the Browns will be picking #1 overall next year. You could have had #33 and more.



    I wouldn't want to talk about that either Bill.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO View Post
    Yup, as predicted.

    BB's wonderful trade with the Niners at the deadline is now the 40th overall pick.

    What a moronic trade. Belichick knew he had a franchise Qb but he gifts him to the Niners for a 2nd that could drop more next week....all because he needed Hoyer LOL!

    Psst...hey Bill, the Browns will be picking #1 overall next year. You could have had #33 and more.



    I wouldn't want to talk about that either Bill.
    Atrocious trade indeed, but I'm not sure this falls on Belichick.


    I think the Guerrero story reveals some fault lines within the organization. You have the HOF quarterback with his health guru/business partner completely entrenched in the locker room. Not only are players receiving conflicting information, but it's creating a culture of invincibility around TB (which, I think, starts with the Krafts and played into the management of Garappolo).


    So my theory is BB pushed out AG (in part) as a counterstrike against ownership/TB and the "too big to be traded" climate. Just a thought....
    --

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    Atrocious trade indeed, but I'm not sure this falls on Belichick.


    I think the Guerrero story reveals some fault lines within the organization. You have the HOF quarterback with his health guru/business partner completely entrenched in the locker room. Not only are players receiving conflicting information, but it's creating a culture of invincibility around TB (which, I think, starts with the Krafts and played into the management of Garappolo).


    So my theory is BB pushed out AG (in part) as a counterstrike against ownership/TB and the "too big to be traded" climate. Just a thought....
    --
    Yeah, there could be other things at play in the trade. It's better to send him to team like the Niners where he will sign a long term deal instead of to the Browns where he probably wouldn't do that. It could have been worse, he could have ended up on a rival AFC East team and caused a lot of headaches going forward. I think they could have kept him but it's water under the bridge now.

  8. #53
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    Lots of theories on the deal. BB makes lots of decisions and takes lots of risks due to his security. But nothing since he got here maps to this deal. JG didn't walk into a police station out of his mind, didn't swear at this Coach, the worst I can think of is that he didn't return from his injury fast enough, so maybe BB got to thinking he wasn't tough enough, but BB would try and max his value and in that scenario would have dealt him during the last draft to the Browns for something like 4 picks (but not four 1's as some hoped).

    So the nastiest set up would be that BB said to Kraft, I loaded up the team, one more big push in '17 for a title, and then Tom retires or we deal him. Kraft says no way, he's the binky of the franchise. BB says look at Montana or Favre, they got the right back up and walked away from the old guy at the right time - after all most of the quarters TB played in the playoffs last year were awful.

    Nope, forget it says Kraft. BB say (to himself) OK, like Parcells, if I can't buy my own groceries plus I won this stupid organization 5 F'in SB's. Have to keep TB? Fine trade JG for peanuts. Get TB's personal trainer out using the pretext of a frustrated medical staff, push this team hard as always for #6. Two days after the last game hold a presser and quit. "I've done what I could." "We won 6 SB titles" "It was a great run....."

    Then the next day sign a massive deal with the Giants to be Coach and GM. He wanted to win one w/o TB, well. here is his chance. He'll be even happier to win 3 outdoing Parcelles, and who is to say he won't?

    Meanwhile TB drags himself through 2 more years like all over 40 QB's before him under the new HC, his old OC. Nobody is like BB, after this year if BB leaves we won't be in a SB for a long time. Our next 5 QB's will look much like the Browns motley collection. Hoyer might be the best of the bunch, if he holds up long enough to be sure.

    Emotion is a very very bad thing in multi billion dollar enterprises. BB is the core and root of the success. TB merely his greatest branch.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Lots of theories on the deal. BB makes lots of decisions and takes lots of risks due to his security. But nothing since he got here maps to this deal. JG didn't walk into a police station out of his mind, didn't swear at this Coach, the worst I can think of is that he didn't return from his injury fast enough, so maybe BB got to thinking he wasn't tough enough, but BB would try and max his value and in that scenario would have dealt him during the last draft to the Browns for something like 4 picks (but not four 1's as some hoped).

    So the nastiest set up would be that BB said to Kraft, I loaded up the team, one more big push in '17 for a title, and then Tom retires or we deal him. Kraft says no way, he's the binky of the franchise. BB says look at Montana or Favre, they got the right back up and walked away from the old guy at the right time - after all most of the quarters TB played in the playoffs last year were awful.

    Nope, forget it says Kraft. BB say (to himself) OK, like Parcells, if I can't buy my own groceries plus I won this stupid organization 5 F'in SB's. Have to keep TB? Fine trade JG for peanuts. Get TB's personal trainer out using the pretext of a frustrated medical staff, push this team hard as always for #6. Two days after the last game hold a presser and quit. "I've done what I could." "We won 6 SB titles" "It was a great run....."

    Then the next day sign a massive deal with the Giants to be Coach and GM. He wanted to win one w/o TB, well. here is his chance. He'll be even happier to win 3 outdoing Parcelles, and who is to say he won't?

    Meanwhile TB drags himself through 2 more years like all over 40 QB's before him under the new HC, his old OC. Nobody is like BB, after this year if BB leaves we won't be in a SB for a long time. Our next 5 QB's will look much like the Browns motley collection. Hoyer might be the best of the bunch, if he holds up long enough to be sure.

    Emotion is a very very bad thing in multi billion dollar enterprises. BB is the core and root of the success. TB merely his greatest branch.

    JG's tolerance for hits is definitely still in question but we'll have to wait and see how that works out. I think BB wants Shula's career win record and will stick around to do it if he can. He needs 72 more wins from what I read and Brady will get him a lot closer to that if he lasts four years.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Lots of theories on the deal. BB makes lots of decisions and takes lots of risks due to his security. But nothing since he got here maps to this deal. JG didn't walk into a police station out of his mind, didn't swear at this Coach, the worst I can think of is that he didn't return from his injury fast enough, so maybe BB got to thinking he wasn't tough enough, but BB would try and max his value and in that scenario would have dealt him during the last draft to the Browns for something like 4 picks (but not four 1's as some hoped).

    So the nastiest set up would be that BB said to Kraft, I loaded up the team, one more big push in '17 for a title, and then Tom retires or we deal him. Kraft says no way, he's the binky of the franchise. BB says look at Montana or Favre, they got the right back up and walked away from the old guy at the right time - after all most of the quarters TB played in the playoffs last year were awful.

    Nope, forget it says Kraft. BB say (to himself) OK, like Parcells, if I can't buy my own groceries plus I won this stupid organization 5 F'in SB's. Have to keep TB? Fine trade JG for peanuts. Get TB's personal trainer out using the pretext of a frustrated medical staff, push this team hard as always for #6. Two days after the last game hold a presser and quit. "I've done what I could." "We won 6 SB titles" "It was a great run....."

    Then the next day sign a massive deal with the Giants to be Coach and GM. He wanted to win one w/o TB, well. here is his chance. He'll be even happier to win 3 outdoing Parcelles, and who is to say he won't?

    Meanwhile TB drags himself through 2 more years like all over 40 QB's before him under the new HC, his old OC. Nobody is like BB, after this year if BB leaves we won't be in a SB for a long time. Our next 5 QB's will look much like the Browns motley collection. Hoyer might be the best of the bunch, if he holds up long enough to be sure.

    Emotion is a very very bad thing in multi billion dollar enterprises. BB is the core and root of the success. TB merely his greatest branch.
    You would think the 66 y/o Belichick, who doesn't plan on being Marv Levy, wants the immediate success of Brady with ~2 years remaining -- Kraft the long-term contingency plan in Garappolo. Not the other way around. BB's greatest sin here is wanting sustained success after he retires.


    I do agree that this could perhaps spell the end of Belichick in NE: fundamentally, assuming this is coach v. ownership, it all comes down to RK not trusting Bill's judgement. Trading an MVP QB after an AFC Championship/Super Bowl season, replacing with a player who's been idle for ~16 games, in a league where many young QB's dazzle then fade, would've taken huge balls. If you trust Belichick as an evaluator you go with his discretion.


    Moreover, if you think McDaniels is a viable HC candidate, doesn't JG keep him around? Imagine if Belichick resigns, the OC/DC leave, and Brady retires in ~2 years? You're totally cooked.


    I'm sure all the adulation Jimmy is receiving just gnaws at Belichick, inflames the tensions. This might be the first case in which business and football OPS really collided down in the BB era.

  11. #56
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    I'm very surprised this thread is getting such little play. When Tom E. Curran is reporting doom and gloom, there's more than just wild speculation.

    Kraft could've set this team up for 3-5 years:

    * BB --> front office
    * McDaniels --> head coach
    * Garappolo --> QB
    * Brady --> dealt for a handful of quality picks

    Instead, we're looking at a realistic scenario where, in ~2 years, Belichick, Patricia, McDaniels, Garappolo and Brady are all gone. With the deeper talent from the coaching staff siphoned off too.... Not to overreact, but this Garappolo handling feels a chapter in a Patriots 30 for 30 special.

    Imagine of Brady retires at the end of this season, how the fans would react?

  12. #57
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    ^

    If Brady can pull off #6, I can't imagine why he wouldn't retire. He can walk, talk, doesn't use a colostomy bag, etc. His sidekick/guru is out as well. Nobody is ever going to win 4 again, never mind 6. You're a legend.

    Look at the team. LG going down the tubes, favorite WR will never the same and is headed to Welker land in 1-2 years, D front 7 is mostly coaching. Our star front 7 player a 50/50 when injuries are doled out. Need a new SS in another year, casting call for more CB's. If they don't win this year the chances look worse each year out.

    BB can see an end, he can also see that his authority was questioned and found wanting. No new QB in the wings. 2-3 year at best to make one. Bad taste in his mouth every hour of every day for facing the future w/o JG.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    ^

    If Brady can pull off #6, I can't imagine why he wouldn't retire. He can walk, talk, doesn't use a colostomy bag, etc. His sidekick/guru is out as well. Nobody is ever going to win 4 again, never mind 6. You're a legend.

    Look at the team. LG going down the tubes, favorite WR will never the same and is headed to Welker land in 1-2 years, D front 7 is mostly coaching. Our star front 7 player a 50/50 when injuries are doled out. Need a new SS in another year, casting call for more CB's. If they don't win this year the chances look worse each year out.

    BB can see an end, he can also see that his authority was questioned and found wanting. No new QB in the wings. 2-3 year at best to make one. Bad taste in his mouth every hour of every day for facing the future w/o JG.
    Yeah, maybe Brady continues to prove the merits of the TB12 Method -- who knows. It'd be ideal to trade him after this season, regardless of outcome, to accumulate some picks. But Kraft won't do it.

    If Brady does retire at season's end, he'll be loathed by most informed fans. So that could also keep him going too.

    I've heard rumblings of IND releasing Andrew Luck. That would be an intriguing alternative at the right price, provided he get back and stay on the field.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    I'm very surprised this thread is getting such little play. When Tom E. Curran is reporting doom and gloom, there's more than just wild speculation.

    Kraft could've set this team up for 3-5 years:

    * BB --> front office
    * McDaniels --> head coach
    * Garappolo --> QB
    * Brady --> dealt for a handful of quality picks

    Instead, we're looking at a realistic scenario where, in ~2 years, Belichick, Patricia, McDaniels, Garappolo and Brady are all gone. With the deeper talent from the coaching staff siphoned off too.... Not to overreact, but this Garappolo handling feels a chapter in a Patriots 30 for 30 special.

    Imagine of Brady retires at the end of this season, how the fans would react?

    If they don't find another franchise Qb it'll be the post-Bird Celtics all over again. They traded JG for peanuts and I doubt any team will return that favor.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO:32072743
    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    I'm very surprised this thread is getting such little play. When Tom E. Curran is reporting doom and gloom, there's more than just wild speculation.

    Kraft could've set this team up for 3-5 years:

    * BB --> front office
    * McDaniels --> head coach
    * Garappolo --> QB
    * Brady --> dealt for a handful of quality picks

    Instead, we're looking at a realistic scenario where, in ~2 years, Belichick, Patricia, McDaniels, Garappolo and Brady are all gone. With the deeper talent from the coaching staff siphoned off too.... Not to overreact, but this Garappolo handling feels a chapter in a Patriots 30 for 30 special.

    Imagine of Brady retires at the end of this season, how the fans would react?

    If they don't find another franchise Qb it'll be the post-Bird Celtics all over again. They traded JG for peanuts and I doubt any team will return that favor.
    Mark my words We will regret the day we traded Jimmy G, Brady has shown his age this last month, yes Brady might be good for another year or 2 but so was montana and so was favre but 49ers and Packers made the smart/difficult move and moved on from their legend QB for the future and neither team has regreted it. We will regret this, Brady already is the GOAT he has nothing left to prove, but he is handcuffing this teams future.

    And adding i believe Jimmy G is better fit for this current Patriots team, he can get the ball to Cooks and he is more mobile which is good for when our offensive line breaks down

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