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View Poll Results: Do we have a problem with police brutality / violence in the US of A?

Voters
22. You may not vote on this poll
  • Absolutely. It's a problem

    15 68.18%
  • No. Police are doing their job the best they can

    7 31.82%
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Results 106 to 120 of 156
  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    What about the legal system? Based on how often they get it right and wrong? Do you even know the numbers?

    What would be a good success or accuracy rate for a jury, to you? Like if they got it right 55% of the time would that be acceptable? If not, what number would be acceptable?
    The stats are irrelevant because even when evidence comes to light to prove the jury was wrong (like DNA), it doesnít mean they were wrong based on the evidence presented to them at the time of the trial. Thatís why the evidence to overturn a juryís verdict has to be so significant.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    The stats are irrelevant because even when evidence comes to light to prove the jury was wrong (like DNA), it doesnít mean they were wrong based on the evidence presented to them at the time of the trial. Thatís why the evidence to overturn a juryís verdict has to be so significant.
    Ah, I see. So you said an opinion while mocking others for having an opinion and then when asked why your belief was not an opinion but fact you dismissed the facts as irrelevant. Tough to know how to proceed in a conversation where you've freely admitted any evidence contradictory to your claim doesn't count...

    As for your attempt at absolutism, new evidence doesn't change what happened, it only changes what we know about what happened. Whether there was DNA evidence available in the beginning or not, it doesn't change whether someone actually did or did not commit murder, only whether the jury had enough to convict him of it, meaning a juries decision is far from a great reference point on whether someone actually did something.

    You just essentially disproved the entire point you were trying to make. You are now claiming that a Jury can't even be used to determine whether an event actually occurred, only whether there was evidence for it. To transpose that thought to the video we were discussing, the jury didn't determine whether he committed second degree murder or not, it only determined if there was enough evidence to convict him of second degree murder...

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    After having gone back and looked, you did indeed say the cop acted like an a-hole in your second response of the video.

    But I'm trying to figure out your larger point. Do you think what he did is acceptable? Should that be how cops handle those situations? If not, and the cop incorrectly handled that situation in your mind and will not face any sort of penalty for his actions, doesn't that lend credence to people who say that police aren't held accountable and don't face consequences for their actions? Doesn't it lend credence to the OP's assertion that there is a police violence problem if a cop can act like a-hole, kill a person, and not face any punishment for it?
    The cop acted unprofessionally to say the least. Thatís a definite from the video.

    He lost his job and I think it will be difficult for him to find another in law enforcement. I continue to say these cases are better served by the civil court than the criminal court because it will always be difficult for 12 jurors to believe beyond a reasonable doubt that a cop didnít fear for his life or wasnít trying to do his job to act criminally in these cases. In fact, cops should be insured like doctors and the cases be handled by the insurance companies rather than the city/state in which the cop resides. If you want to do away with corruption, thatís a good start.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Ah, I see. So you said an opinion while mocking others for having an opinion and then when asked why your belief was not an opinion but fact you dismissed the facts as irrelevant. Tough to know how to proceed in a conversation where you've freely admitted any evidence contradictory to your claim doesn't count...

    As for your attempt at absolutism, new evidence doesn't change what happened, it only changes what we know about what happened. Whether there was DNA evidence available in the beginning or not, it doesn't change whether someone actually did or did not commit murder, only whether the jury had enough to convict him of it, meaning a juries decision is far from a great reference point on whether someone actually did something.

    You just essentially disproved the entire point you were trying to make. You are now claiming that a Jury can't even be used to determine whether an event actually occurred, only whether there was evidence for it. To transpose that thought to the video we were discussing, the jury didn't determine whether he committed second degree murder or not, it only determined if there was enough evidence to convict him of second degree murder...
    You last paragraph is accurate but itís also meaningless. There wasnít enough evidence to convict OJ Simpson and the jury was correct. Itís easy to now say ďbut there was DNA evidence.Ē However, in 1995, people didnít understand DNA the way they do now. Hindsight can be 20/20 but it canít convict someone of murder.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    And my opinion is Rian Johnsonís first venture into the Star Wars universe was a masterpiece.

    The cop wasnít ďallowed to walk.Ē He faced a jury of his peers, who heard all of the evidence and found him not guilty. Thatís the justice system.
    No it isnt.

    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Again, you demonstrate your misunderstanding of the legal system. The juries decision was subjective, in that it was their opinion of the evidence. The law as written is objective, as interpreted is subjective.
    Well said.

    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No, people in this thread have been discussing both, about that very video. You want to turn it into strictly a discussion of the law so that you don't have to address the morality of the situation.

    Legally, everyone here agrees, he was found not guilty. You are the only one acting like that means what he did was 100% OK.

    Since we are all in agreement on the legality of the juries decision, would you care to address the morality and/or your thoughts on the situation?
    Exactly this.

    Joey is cherry picking here.

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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    And my opinion is Rian Johnsonís first venture into the Star Wars universe was a masterpiece.

    The cop wasnít ďallowed to walk.Ē He faced a jury of his peers, who heard all of the evidence and found him not guilty. Thatís the justice system.
    I am aware of the verdict. Doesn't make it the correct one.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I am aware of the verdict. Doesn't make it the correct one.
    Well said.

    Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

  10. #115
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    Statistically, it is a fact

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

    Click here to register!

    Hope to see some new posters around here soon.

  11. #116
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    Iím glad there are so many legal experts that can determine a case based on a minute long video vs a jury who heard all the testimony/evidence.

    Anyone want to coach the Pats in the playoffs?

    Who wants to take over for Trump?

    Actually, Iíd be willing to bet, that we all have more experience in sports and politics than this case.

  12. #117
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    Why do you think youíre the correct one when absolutely nobody on here is agreeing with you?

  13. #118
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    I wonder if youíd have a different view on this if the murder victim was a relative of yours.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Nut Kruk View Post
    Why do you think youíre the correct one when absolutely nobody on here is agreeing with you?
    My point is that none of us have the insight on this case to make a valid argument against what the jury decided. Itís like having no knowledge of football and seeing a highlight and calling it a cheap hit and saying the player should be kicked out of the league.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Nut Kruk View Post
    I wonder if youíd have a different view on this if the murder victim was a relative of yours.
    Thatís a useless argument. You can literally say that about anything and get a different response. You donít govern based on emotions.

    Hereís an example:

    If someone I cared for was murdered or harmed, Iíd want the offender to suffer 10x what I have. Not only would I want that person killed, Iíd want their family, children killed first. That being said, Iím not in favor of the death penalty.

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