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  1. #1111
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    Not too keen on trying to develop multiple young pg's while developing Frank. I would rather him play behind and play with a pg that is established in the league. Ex. CP3/Bledsoe, Parker/Hill, etc.

  2. #1112
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    I hope this franchise doesn't blow it with Frank. What did expect him to do this year?! A 19 year old kid, coming from another country, wasn't getting serious burn on his French team, and playing the most difficult position to learn. How many rookies actually come in and tear up the league at any position? Develop the kid or Frank is going to be another talent we gave away that comes into his own with another organization. We are willing to kick the tires on Mudiay and Burke, but are ready to give up on FRANK?! If our FO thinks like some of the posters in this forum, we are forever doomed. R-E-L-A-X

  3. #1113
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    Quote Originally Posted by kartyea View Post
    I can't believe a thread about Frank made 74 pages, this guy is not good. What's worse is his talent level will only allow him to get a little better. Everyone keeps screaming he's young he'll get better, well news flash every rookie in the league gets better, but how much better is the question.

    This guys ceiling isn't too much higher than the floor, he's all effort which is good, but effort can only take you but so far you need skill and as much as i dislike Mudiay he has much more to work with than Frank. You can learn defense and to play harder, but you can't teach skill, some people have it some don't and Frank doesn't
    Saved for the I told you he was gonna be good thread in 2 years. 😂

  4. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.L.ugger View Post
    I hope this franchise doesn't blow it with Frank. What did expect him to do this year?! A 19 year old kid, coming from another country, wasn't getting serious burn on his French team, and playing the most difficult position to learn. How many rookies actually come in and tear up the league at any position? Develop the kid or Frank is going to be another talent we gave away that comes into his own with another organization. We are willing to kick the tires on Mudiay and Burke, but are ready to give up on FRANK?! If our FO thinks like some of the posters in this forum, we are forever doomed. R-E-L-A-X




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  5. #1115
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.L.ugger View Post
    I hope this franchise doesn't blow it with Frank. What did expect him to do this year?! A 19 year old kid, coming from another country, wasn't getting serious burn on his French team, and playing the most difficult position to learn. How many rookies actually come in and tear up the league at any position? Develop the kid or Frank is going to be another talent we gave away that comes into his own with another organization. We are willing to kick the tires on Mudiay and Burke, but are ready to give up on FRANK?! If our FO thinks like some of the posters in this forum, we are forever doomed. R-E-L-A-X
    He's also 6'5 and hasn't hit the weights yet/body hasn't filled out. He could end up like 6'5/6'6 and 210-215 pounds of muscle if he's developed properly over the next 2-3 years. That's a big PG that could just be a monster on D. Offensively I'm just hoping he ends up Rubio with a better jumper/3 pointer, that would be enough to me to justify taking him at 8.

    But time will tell. Can't rush it but we're an impatient fanbase.

  6. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.L.ugger View Post
    I hope this franchise doesn't blow it with Frank. What did expect him to do this year?! A 19 year old kid, coming from another country, wasn't getting serious burn on his French team, and playing the most difficult position to learn. How many rookies actually come in and tear up the league at any position? Develop the kid or Frank is going to be another talent we gave away that comes into his own with another organization. We are willing to kick the tires on Mudiay and Burke, but are ready to give up on FRANK?! If our FO thinks like some of the posters in this forum, we are forever doomed. R-E-L-A-X
    this post really confuses me along with some other posts???

    How is Frank not getting a chance? he is playing more minutes than almost any knick, he played 32 min last game and 33 minutes the game before.
    Those are more minutes than Mudiay who starts. And Trey has played 11 and 15 minutes??? and he gets included in the willing to kick the tires comment/

    so confusing around here sometimes?

    you the problem with some of you is that you are so damn busy defending him you don't really see the full picture.

    Frank has been given more of an opportunity solely because of where is was drafted rather than how he has performed. Where I sit guy's like Troy, Dot, and Trey have earned an equal right to min or even more than Frank at this point, frank keeps getting the keys but not going anywhere with them.

    Yes he will improve, but i'll put almost any 19 year old college kid in his place who we can all say will improve.


    I'm a fan of Frank mostly because we need him to be good but lets not confuse this with what he has shown and how much he's improved with a bunch of If's.

    It really is time to see Frank posts on what he did the improvements he made rather than he is 19.

    I watched Fox the other night, major difference, did so much more than what he did early on.

    Seems with Frank he did more with 20-22 min than he doing with 32-33 min of playing time.

    We all hope he gets there to a level we need him to be or we lost another year in the draft, I really believe this is what it's come down too.

  7. #1117
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    NBA Math

    Verified account

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    4h4 hours ago
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    #StiZZatZ from latest @HardwoodKnocks, "Jrue Holiday is an Underrated Defender" edition

    Top PnR Ball-Handler Defenders by PPP (min 150poss):
    1. Frank Ntilikina: 0.66
    2. Chris Paul: 0.69
    3. Victor Oladipo: 0.69
    4. Jrue Holiday: 0.70
    5. Jaylen Brown: 0.71

    http://bit.ly/hwkx143 pic.twitter.com/R5kTN3MtwM

  8. #1118
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    To me the issue isn't "defending" or "hating on" Frank. The issue is making definitive, blanket statements on the potential -- excuse me, "ceiling" or "floor" -- of a teenager. But, of course, that is standard operation procedure here.

  9. #1119
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    I think where Frank stands out I his defense but even that gets flawed with the fouls he gets which puts him on the bench. Once he learns to stop the touch fouls on the perimeter he is going to be one of those defenders that guys don't look forward to seeing him.

    that separates Frank from not only other guards but most rookies in general.

    I think where some posters are wrong is where they flat out say the kid stinks. Where others are wrong is almost guaranteeing he will be very good. Seems others who are now on our team were crowned this their rookie seasons and one wound up on the bench then traded for a 2nd and doug and the other wound up in the G-league to develop.

    Hopefully Frank doesn't follow suit because they were all drafted around the same spot.

    So I think some are way over the top on his future being great and some are way over the top with his future being bad.

    I have hope for him, and believe I was the first to point out his shooting form when he couldn't hit the backboard early on, hopefully when he starts playing with instinct and not thinking all the time a much better player will be seen by all. Again it's we hope.

  10. #1120
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    I think where Frank stands out I his defense but even that gets flawed with the fouls he gets which puts him on the bench. Once he learns to stop the touch fouls on the perimeter he is going to be one of those defenders that guys don't look forward to seeing him.

    that separates Frank from not only other guards but most rookies in general.

    I think where some posters are wrong is where they flat out say the kid stinks. Where others are wrong is almost guaranteeing he will be very good. Seems others who are now on our team were crowned this their rookie seasons and one wound up on the bench then traded for a 2nd and doug and the other wound up in the G-league to develop.

    Hopefully Frank doesn't follow suit because they were all drafted around the same spot.

    So I think some are way over the top on his future being great and some are way over the top with his future being bad.

    I have hope for him, and believe I was the first to point out his shooting form when he couldn't hit the backboard early on, hopefully when he starts playing with instinct and not thinking all the time a much better player will be seen by all. Again it's we hope.
    I realize you're talking about posters in general, but just speaking for myself I don't think I've ever made any outlandish predictions that he'd be a "great" player or anything. I HOPE that happens, but I've always pegged his ceiling at an above average starting PG. Basically a top 15 PG in the league as a ceiling, if he's developed properly and puts in the work himself to get there as a 2 way PG.

    That's a ceiling, but if he ends up a better shooting, bigger version of Ricky Rubio, that to me would justify picking him at 8.

    I'm not guaranteeing that happens, my main thing has always been I'm waiting for 2-3+ seasons to come to a conclusion on him. We'll see where he's at at age 21/22 (basically Donovan Mitchell's age now).

    Obviously age 21 isn't necessarily a player's ceiling either but at least it's a bit closer to it.

  11. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    NBA Math

    Verified account

    @NBA_Math
    4h4 hours ago
    More
    #StiZZatZ from latest @HardwoodKnocks, "Jrue Holiday is an Underrated Defender" edition

    Top PnR Ball-Handler Defenders by PPP (min 150poss):
    1. Frank Ntilikina: 0.66
    2. Chris Paul: 0.69
    3. Victor Oladipo: 0.69
    4. Jrue Holiday: 0.70
    5. Jaylen Brown: 0.71

    http://bit.ly/hwkx143 pic.twitter.com/R5kTN3MtwM
    I'm sorry did we miss this post. THIS IS A HUGE DEAL. The entire league is pick and roll.

  12. #1122
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    I realize you're talking about posters in general, but just speaking for myself I don't think I've ever made any outlandish predictions that he'd be a "great" player or anything. I HOPE that happens, but I've always pegged his ceiling at an above average starting PG. Basically a top 15 PG in the league as a ceiling, if he's developed properly and puts in the work himself to get there as a 2 way PG.

    That's a ceiling, but if he ends up a better shooting, bigger version of Ricky Rubio, that to me would justify picking him at 8.

    I'm not guaranteeing that happens, my main thing has always been I'm waiting for 2-3+ seasons to come to a conclusion on him. We'll see where he's at at age 21/22 (basically Donovan Mitchell's age now).

    Obviously age 21 isn't necessarily a player's ceiling either but at least it's a bit closer to it.
    Right, and if we are the 3rd team willing to guy Mudiay, a guy we didn't draft or develop a chance, then why shouldn't the Knicks and their fans be willing to give Frank that same shot. See what he is before his rookie deal ends.

  13. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddygreen17 View Post
    Right, and if we are the 3rd team willing to guy Mudiay, a guy we didn't draft or develop a chance, then why shouldn't the Knicks and their fans be willing to give Frank that same shot. See what he is before his rookie deal ends.
    Fans like flash, and they like big scoring numbers, and want a point guard who can break down a defense/penetrate at will with a tight handle.

    In fairness, these are weaknesses of Frank's. I just don't personally believe it's impossible to develop these areas.

    He's never going to have an explosive first step/he's not fast twitch. That I can see and I think all of us can see, and it's a weakness. Fine; it doesn't equate to him "not being able to be a starting PG" imo. It's simply one weakness.

    That said, he does need to be able to penetrate/collapse defenses and either look for his shot (floater/pull up J) or dish. I'm simply of the opinion that guards can do this without being super explosive. Craftiness can get you a similar result in terms of collapsing defenses during penetration. That's what Frank needs to develop. Tighter handle, better recognition of what defenses are giving him, craftiness in penetration.

    He's already a good passer. That will only improve. His shooting form is solid - he needs to get his efficiency up, but I believe that can be developed as well.

    So ultimately it's that first concern - handle/dribble penetration. This is on our coaching staff and on Frank himself to work diligently on to get where he needs to be.

    I don't see Mudiay as a long term solution anywhere really. If we didn't have Burke I'd keep Mudiay as a backup PG moving forward, but I just feel like Burke is better than him. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out over the coming seasons. If it were up to me I'd be developing Frank above all else (other than KP obviously but he's out right now)... I do personally think it's a mistake to try to force him into a SG. It's fine for now to give him some off the ball experience I guess but imo he's better suited as a PG.

    Maybe if he grows to 6'7+ he could be like a point forward at the 3, but I don't see him as a 2. I just don't think Frank will ever really score more than 12-14 PPG at most personally.

  14. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    this post really confuses me along with some other posts???

    How is Frank not getting a chance? he is playing more minutes than almost any knick, he played 32 min last game and 33 minutes the game before.
    Those are more minutes than Mudiay who starts. And Trey has played 11 and 15 minutes??? and he gets included in the willing to kick the tires comment/

    so confusing around here sometimes?

    you the problem with some of you is that you are so damn busy defending him you don't really see the full picture.

    Frank has been given more of an opportunity solely because of where is was drafted rather than how he has performed. Where I sit guy's like Troy, Dot, and Trey have earned an equal right to min or even more than Frank at this point, frank keeps getting the keys but not going anywhere with them.

    Yes he will improve, but i'll put almost any 19 year old college kid in his place who we can all say will improve.


    I'm a fan of Frank mostly because we need him to be good but lets not confuse this with what he has shown and how much he's improved with a bunch of If's.

    It really is time to see Frank posts on what he did the improvements he made rather than he is 19.

    I watched Fox the other night, major difference, did so much more than what he did early on.

    Seems with Frank he did more with 20-22 min than he doing with 32-33 min of playing time.

    We all hope he gets there to a level we need him to be or we lost another year in the draft, I really believe this is what it's come down too.
    Frank has not been impressing me lately. But you missed the point of his post - Frank is a PG and yet since Mudiay has gotten here he has barely had the chance to dominate the ball, which is crucial to his development.

    Regardless of of your view of his readiness to assume primary PG duties, some people (me included) believe the only way he’ll get better is by having those chances not playing wing.

  15. #1125
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddygreen17 View Post
    I'm sorry did we miss this post. THIS IS A HUGE DEAL. The entire league is pick and roll.
    It is. And it proves that Frank is already a very productive player despite everyone’s obsession with his ppg.

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