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  1. #226
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    It's amazing that Cam Newton is the size of a tight end and can still run and leap like that.

    We now know for sure that all teams in the NFC playoffs will have winning records. But the AFC is pretty iffy in that regard. The Titans will probably go from 8-4 to 8-8, considering who they finish with: the Rams and the Jaguars (unless Jacksonville is locked into a seed -- but even then {LOL}).

  2. #227
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    I'm starting to believe the speculation that Belichick wanted to keep Garoppolo but was forced by Kraft to keep Brady instead.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    The Miami Dolphins have defeated both the NFC and AFC Champions of last year.
    Cutty does it

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

    Click here to register!

    Hope to see some new posters around here soon.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    I'm starting to believe the speculation that Belichick wanted to keep Garoppolo but was forced by Kraft to keep Brady instead.
    I believe it.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    I'm starting to believe the speculation that Belichick wanted to keep Garoppolo but was forced by Kraft to keep Brady instead.
    I don't see it. I think if it came down to it Kraft would step in if BB ever tried to proactively move on from Brady (before drop off I mean). But I don't think we're at that point yet. The 49ers asked about Brady in the offseason and BB laughed them off the phone. Brady is still 1A and 1B for best in the game with Rodgers. He hasn't shown any physical decline this year. Throwing deep as well as he ever has, moving in the pocket as well as he ever has, no lost velocity on the throws. The numbers have come down a bit the last handful of games but there's no physical decline factor to point to for it. The line is playing bad, receivers have been injured and struggling to separate. Brady's had some bad reads and mistimed throws but it's nothing physical with him that you point to.

    QB position is the most important in sports. Brady's on top of his game still. Just having him on the roster starting makes you a Super Bowl contender. I love Jimmy G and I think the team did too but he was and to a large degree still is an unknown. I mean, he played a game and a half last year and got hurt. Brady's arguably as good a player as he's ever been and he's arguably the greatest QB to ever play the game. It's a delicate balance because at 40 you have to imagine it could go in an instant but there's NO physical decline. The past "off a cliff" drop offs we've seen were forewarned by some physical decline. Manning was throwing ducks at the end of his 50 TD season with DEN for instance. I just don't see BB wanting to move on from Brady yet. And tagging Jimmy G to keep him isn't realistic. So he had to make the tough call to move Jimmy G and he waited as long as he possibly could, prioritizing buying time over getting max value by trading in the offseason or in conference.


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  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I don't see it. I think if it came down to it Kraft would step in if BB ever tried to proactively move on from Brady (before drop off I mean). But I don't think we're at that point yet. The 49ers asked about Brady in the offseason and BB laughed them off the phone. Brady is still 1A and 1B for best in the game with Rodgers. He hasn't shown any physical decline this year. Throwing deep as well as he ever has, moving in the pocket as well as he ever has, no lost velocity on the throws. The numbers have come down a bit the last handful of games but there's no physical decline factor to point to for it. The line is playing bad, receivers have been injured and struggling to separate. Brady's had some bad reads and mistimed throws but it's nothing physical with him that you point to.

    QB position is the most important in sports. Brady's on top of his game still. Just having him on the roster starting makes you a Super Bowl contender. I love Jimmy G and I think the team did too but he was and to a large degree still is an unknown. I mean, he played a game and a half last year and got hurt. Brady's arguably as good a player as he's ever been and he's arguably the greatest QB to ever play the game. It's a delicate balance because at 40 you have to imagine it could go in an instant but there's NO physical decline. The past "off a cliff" drop offs we've seen were forewarned by some physical decline. Manning was throwing ducks at the end of his 50 TD season with DEN for instance. I just don't see BB wanting to move on from Brady yet. And tagging Jimmy G to keep him isn't realistic. So he had to make the tough call to move Jimmy G and he waited as long as he possibly could, prioritizing buying time over getting max value by trading in the offseason or in conference.
    As gronk goes so will Tom.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    As gronk goes so will Tom.
    Gronk doesn't have anything to do with how well Brady move in the pocket when he has too. Gronk doesn't have anything to do with how far Brady can throw the ball or what type of velocity he gets. Gronk will obviously have a profound effect on how Brady's play translates into stats and overall team success but Gronk has absolutely zero to do with Brady's own physical skills as a football player.


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  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Gronk doesn't have anything to do with how well Brady move in the pocket when he has too. Gronk doesn't have anything to do with how far Brady can throw the ball or what type of velocity he gets. Gronk will obviously have a profound effect on how Brady's play translates into stats and overall team success but Gronk has absolutely zero to do with Brady's own physical skills as a football player.
    And Brady tends to look different “tools” wise depending on the talent around him, more so Gronk. I think Brady is phenomenal, no qualms at all. He’s starting to look older which he should be at this point, certainly not a knock at all. If G is the real deal, maybe he is, I’d certainly take 10+ years of him instead of these final 2-3 years of a “slightly” declining Brady.

  9. #234
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    I still would've found a way to keep both. Brady can't play forever and even if you trade Jimmy they still should've gotten more than they did for him.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    And Brady tends to look different “tools” wise depending on the talent around him, more so Gronk. I think Brady is phenomenal, no qualms at all. He’s starting to look older which he should be at this point, certainly not a knock at all. If G is the real deal, maybe he is, I’d certainly take 10+ years of him instead of these final 2-3 years of a “slightly” declining Brady.
    I don't think Brady's or any other players' "tools" change based on the talent around them. The translation of those tools into production does though for sure. Brady's no more or less accurate throwing to Gronk than he is someone else. It's just that Gronk has a bigger catch radius so more of those less than perfect throws will be caught. The QB looks better if he has more time to set his feet without scrambling. If receivers get separation he's gonna complete more throws. And so on and so forth. Obviously you gotta do some deep analysis there to fully separate. Is the QB losing accuracy or is the receiver just forcing too tight a window that everything needs to be literally perfect? It's tough to tell sometimes.

    You say Brady looks older, but honestly, watching him every game, I don't see any physical attribute that he isn't as good or better than he's ever been. Since the 2014 season (and I wonder if drafting Jimmy G re-lit the fire under his *** for this) his mobility has been another level. And it still is. He's not Vick back there obviously but I think his slides in and out of the pocket are as good as ever. Also, after the knee injury, I think he got gun shy to an extent and the further he's gotten past that the more of his willingness to hold the ball has come back. And then the offense has started to add some better downfield threats (Hogan/Cooks on the outside, Gronk running more downfield routes, Edleman being able to challenge vertically way better than Welker ever could) so Brady's adjusted accordingly. He's talked about how it's been a major point of emphasis for him to work on that and he's throwing the deep ball as well as he's ever thrown it from my eye. He was probably more productive with it during the Moss years but again, that goes back to is his "tool" really any better or is Randy Moss just Randy ****ing Moss lol. Throwing velocity and accuracy look as good as it ever has far as what I can tell. No player in NFL history is perfect so that's not to say Brady doesn't have flaws but I just don't see any tool that isn't operating for him as well as it ever has.

    And as an aside, I think you're overrating Gronk's impact because of the time he's missed this year compounding the issue by also being without Edleman. NE has morphed into more of a downfield throwing team now with the addition of Cooks this year and Hogan last year. It's resulted in a bit more of a "choppy" offense that doesn't grind out first downs as easily but gets more chunk plays. Amendola is an example of a guy clearly in physical decline (and also being managed so he stays healthy enough to play) so he hasn't been able to make up that ground. So Gronk has been that 3rd down security blanket more so than he has been in the past. But when he's out, now the defense is able to devote much more attention to Cooks and he struggles to gains separation against press man. Gronk being out enables them to devote enough safety attention to do that (the fact that Cooks can be limited so much by this is why he's a very good but not elite receiver). And then along with Edleman being out, Hogan has also missed time, Allen has been a big disappointment as a receiver backing up Gronk (doing an awesome job blocking though), Malcolm Mitchell who would be Hogan's backup is out all year (might be coming back now though) and Amendola is in physical decline. So all of that has created a perfect storm where Gronk's absences are more impactful than they have been in the past.

    Last paragraph there can be exhibited by pointing out how they won the SB just last year without Gronk. Difference is they had Edleman to be that security blanket and then also (to a lesser extent than Edleman) a more competent receiver at TE than Allen with Marty Bennett as the backup. This year Gronk's absences have been more notable because the complementary skill sets haven't been there like they were last year. Obviously Gronk is AMAZING but I think they'd be fine without him if they had Edleman still to lean on like last year. But the cumulative impact of both being out is the straw that breaks the camel's back though.

    To get back to Jimmy G though, as much as I don't see the age related decline in Brady yet he's still 40. It could always be around the corner. So giving up Jimmy G sucked. I really wanted to work it out and keep him. But at the same time, it's hard to just trade away a guy as good as Brady still on top of his game, regardless of how old he is. You say if Jimmy G is the "real deal" but there's kind of different degrees. Brady, Rogers, and Payeton Manning through his prime are the QBs I've watched that make you a SB contender. Just by virtue of having those guys I consider their teams threats to win it all. They're that good. But QBs like Ben, Rivers, Brees... I think we would all consider Jimmy the "real deal" if he equals those guys. But I don't view them in the same light where their teams are automatically contenders. So what if Jimmy G is in that group. 10 years of that would be amazing. But if you're telling me Brady's got 2-3 years left at this level I view that as 2-3 years where I know I'm a SB contender, right off the top. Even if Jimmy G is the next Drew Brees, I might only get 3 years in that 10 year span where I have the supporting pieces around to think that. But obviously I could get more too. It's tough. Not an easy call either way. I can see both sides.


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  11. #236
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    Really interesting breakdown on RBs. Shows what kind of defenses they face, which are volume backs and which have lots of yards all in one diagram.

    Perhaps extra interesting with how good it shows Carlos Hyde to be, and he's expected to become a free agent.
    First 4 years:
    Brown - 54 GP, 27 GS, 261 catches (63.3%) for 3,561 yds (8.6 AVG), 15 TD
    Landry - 64 GP, 57 GS, 400 catches (70.2%) for 4,038 yds (10.1 AVG), 22 TD

    Huh. Wonder why Landry is getting paid so much...

    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
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  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post


    Really interesting breakdown on RBs. Shows what kind of defenses they face, which are volume backs and which have lots of yards all in one diagram.

    Perhaps extra interesting with how good it shows Carlos Hyde to be, and he's expected to become a free agent.
    If you go straight up at 225 that's essentially where all the elite backs are ( I mean to the right of that line) So Lamar Miller, Anderson may have been underutilized or underrated. And a back like Gore could excel in an offense with an Oline and a QB. And some balance. So maybe Gore isn;t done yet.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis94 View Post
    If you go straight up at 225 that's essentially where all the elite backs are ( I mean to the right of that line) So Lamar Miller, Anderson may have been underutilized or underrated. And a back like Gore could excel in an offense with an Oline and a QB. And some balance. So maybe Gore isn;t done yet.
    Well, kind of.

    The people in the bottom right corner are kind of the overrated backs. So take Bell. He rarely goes against a stacked box, gets tons of carries, but puts up big numbers.

    That means if he actually had to face good rush defenses often, he'd have much worse numbers. Same with Gurley.

    On the other hand, usually when Fournette is on the field, they know he's getting the ball and are all lined up to smash him... but he somehow gets free and gets yards anyway. Impressive.

    I'd say the underrated RBs on that chart are the ones who see a high percentage of 8+ defenders, moderate carries and still put up good numbers. That list is:

    Ingram
    Hyde
    Murray
    Zeke

    Now obviously Zeke isn't underrated, the other three on that list probably are. Murray just was a free agent, Hyde might be this year and Ingram has an out in his contract with only $1.6M dead cap vs a $6.2M hit. Murray actually has almost the exact same out. $1.2M dead cap vs a $6.3M hit. All three of these guys could be free agents. Crazy.
    First 4 years:
    Brown - 54 GP, 27 GS, 261 catches (63.3%) for 3,561 yds (8.6 AVG), 15 TD
    Landry - 64 GP, 57 GS, 400 catches (70.2%) for 4,038 yds (10.1 AVG), 22 TD

    Huh. Wonder why Landry is getting paid so much...

    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  14. #239
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    Another good one today:

    First 4 years:
    Brown - 54 GP, 27 GS, 261 catches (63.3%) for 3,561 yds (8.6 AVG), 15 TD
    Landry - 64 GP, 57 GS, 400 catches (70.2%) for 4,038 yds (10.1 AVG), 22 TD

    Huh. Wonder why Landry is getting paid so much...

    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    [IMG]

    Really interesting breakdown on RBs. Shows what kind of defenses they face, which are volume backs and which have lots of yards all in one diagram.

    Perhaps extra interesting with how good it shows Carlos Hyde to be, and he's expected to become a free agent.
    Did you create the chart? It's pretty good but I think it would have been better to use the color for 8+ defenders in the box, because there's less variance than in total yardage. It's really hard to see color differences at closely located players.

    Howard seems pretty red to me -- more than McCoy for example but higher up on 8+ defenders -- so he'd probably be the most underrated back.

    I would also be interested to know if nickel DBs count as "in the box".

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